Tumblerseven

So first of all if i would write this kind of statement i would get 5 people jumping on me with their performative outrage trying to tell me how evil i am. I will see what reactions you will get Do you then believe that Palestinians have the right to fight illegal occupation from Israelis by any means necessary? yes/no what kind of means actions are justified. Would you call october 7 attack trying to fight the occupation? yes/no why? Would you call Hamas freedom fighters? yes/no why? Do you think october 7 attacks are justified because there is illegal ocupation of israel? yes/no why?

But realistically there is no other option you have to acknowledge that. You must agree that there are certain situations where humane and peaceful options doesn't exist. Like in self defense. You not expected to talk to your attacker who wants to kill you like a humane person. You are expected to defend yourself by any means necessary.

I absolutely disagree i think systems can fail like capitalism or socialism or authoritarianism or democracy and countries who implement those bad systems can fail to. Failing=means you cease to exist as a country or system by influence of the outside world. Would you agree that if Palestine can do nothing more than just democratically elect terrorist elements into their government they are failing as a country and population? So i think i can give you a scenario where you would say population cleansing might be reasonable. You live in a democracy i Thanos snap 30% of your countries population into radicalism racism authoritarianism. They dont believe in democracy or your state and they terorising the 70% of liberal population. What do you think your country should do? options: 1. cleanse the hostile population cleansing trying to deport them from your home is better than killing them 2. kill them. killing them is worse than cleansing. 3.Give up democracy it would be just sad. so can you engage with this?

So maybe we both think that there is not inherent right for a country to exist but you clearly can get the vibe that people in this forum disagree. When i said in previous comments that if US came and force the deal with a condition that if Palestine after free elections after removing of settlements goes back to terrorism Arab countries takes the Palestinians to themselves. Do you see how much of the performative outrage i got after that comment?? They clearly think that Palestinians have inherent right into that land and Palestine have inherent right to exist. If you remove Palestines right to fail as a country then you are saying that Palestine have the inherent right to exist no matter what. Terroristic or genocidal they cant fail and they cant fail on any level that they would cease to exist. Thats what people are saying in this forum.

Do you see the difference between these concepts? 1.inherent right to exist 2. right to exist. I do believe that israel and palestine have the right to exist. I dont believe they have the inherent right to exist. I think they have the right to fail.

Yup Germans in WW2 had this drinkable chemical substance colorless tasteless they called it Wasser. You cant drink Wasser ever its not acceptable... ever. Thats the level of engagement im getting amazing.

Yup thats what happens when you hear population cleansing and your brains shuts off completely and you cant even engage with anything.

So i dont think that population cleansing is inherently a bad thing. I think that Ukraine had the right to try population cleanse the Russians in Donbas and Luhansk in 2014 who wanted to take land from Ukraine. I guess you disagree you would just roll over and let them take anything they want becouse population cleansing looks bad. Yes actually annexing Gaza and population cleanse would put an end to the Gaza conflict. I dont believe that any country have the inherent right to exist. Maybe you do? You've obviously got access to the Zionist handbook thats hilarious after my comments about settlers. So the question for you i Thanos snap and put 300 000 North Koreans in your city tomorrow. What do you choose? 1. population cleanse 2.kill them 3.roll over like a good boy and just move

Why wont they? So the constant crying and virtue signaling about palestine and palestinians the commitments to go into war for them i think they present themselves like they really really care. If they want peace stability and life and freedom for Palestine they surely would agree right? Oh wait are you saying that Arab countries know that Palestine would fail as a country and just start terrorizing neighbors again? uh oh.

Okay. Tell me after october 7 before Israel response bombing and stuff. Hamas goes back into Gaza they dance in the streets they party. I magically Thanos snap all the leaders of Hamas and force Palestine to have a democratic election on october 8. What do they elect? 1.Another terroristic group who will say from the river to the sea we will fight till our last brother until we free the whole Palestine. 2. They elect people who will accept peace they stop making rockets and stop terrorizing Israel and from now on they will accept that they only have Gaza and West Bank and new elected government devotes themselves to diplomatic solutions only.

Yah i agree i dont think Palestinians deserve death or bombed hospitals or schools or bombs on safe passages. But we have to be realistic and not live in some fantasy land and expect that we can just talk everything into peace and expect 0 bombings and 0 casualties. This narrative that Israel is carpet bombing Gaza and purposefully trying to kill civilians is ridiculous yah they bombing alot if they would try to kill civilians we would not see 7000 dead we would see 30 000. WW2 carpet bombed multiple cities in days you would see 20 000 dead not in a month. I think we have to be honest that this conflict is almost 100 years old and nothing is changing only Israels occupation in West bank. I think october 7 is a game changer after that i think its clear that something needs to be changing. Palestinians and Israelis cant live like this anymore. We cant just open Gaza with Hamas in charge. We cant talk them into peace and surrender either. We cant implement two state solutions because the red lines from both sides. So there needs to be Arab countries and US leadership to force some kind of deal to open Gaza. I think israel made some kind of statement that after Hamas destruction they want to open Gaza. I think if US after Gaza war would come and force the deal and say to Israel to Egypt to Jordan to Iran and any other neighbor. Hamas is dead we now open Gaza. Israel have responsibility to help Palestinians in Gaza for few years with infrastructure water so they dont die. Israel destroys West Bank settlements. And then after few years we let Israel to fully disengage. Condition is if there is a state sponsored terrorist act once from Palestine! Israel has the right to annex Gaza and neighboring Arab countries have a responsibility and promise to take Palestinian population whole population from Gaza however they want to themselves. I think that would solve Gaza problem. And i think only Israel would accept. I think it would be a fair deal.

Thank you for your answer. and i agree. Thats a good faith engagement some people should learn from you.

So i think you are actually arguing in bad faith and trying to be purposefully obtuse to dodge the answers or taking positions. Im not talking about 2023 i didint mentioned 2023 once. ONCE. IM TALKING ABOUT 2006. im done engaging with you.

Oh i apologize i wasnt clear. If you believe that democratic population who held democratic elections are in some way responsible for their governments actions. Can you right now admit and say that when in 2006 gaza palestinian population who democratically elected an established terrorist organization bears some kind of responsibility for their governments actions. For a few years at least. 2006 Palestinian legislative election - Wikipedia

So wait you will disagree with me when i say they meaning (population) but then you agree with this guy and will say yes but its nuanced if people dont talk about individuals. 7000 individuals who got bombed are part of a population israel is bombing gazas population.. Am i misunderstanding something what is happening? Oh wait you are saying they are not democratically elected so they are not responsible. I understood. Just to clarify you are saying that democratic countries population bear some kind of responsibility for their governments actions. @KentVillan My communication style might be confrontational but i dont think im picking fights. If i disagree passionately i dont think im picking fights.

So every state ever existed was influenced and interfered by other countries. Those who handle become stronger and survive those who cant handle vanish. Its like natural process. I think you absolutely can blame Palestine and Palestinians if they cant handle that thats literally their responsibility to handle it if they want to have a country. A stellar job So they did a decent job in your opinion not stellar but acceptable?? I think they did really bad job. I keep hearing from people and it triggers me. They not responsible they not responsible they not responsible they not responsible. They are not responsible that they have terrorist government. They are not responsible that after 3 days of war their water and food is gone. Hamas apparently didint get the memo that you can store those things. Someone told them how to store the bullets but forgot to mention how to store food and water. They not responsible that after 3 days of war they have 0 generators to provide for their hospitals. They have plenty of rockets but they just cant put their hands on the **** generator its like mythical creature to them they just cant catch one. I keep hearing these things and i think its really gross to treat these people like inept children. People want to give them a state free palestine but they treat them like they are slow or something. I dont understand its crazy to me. After they will get the state will they be responsible for anything? or UN and israel will be responsible for them because of 80 years of oppressions? how long 100 years? when is it going to stop? Do palestine have the right and freedom to fail as a country?

Settlements. Well it happened once in 2005 when israel removed settlements from gaza and then they elected established terrorist organization in 2006. So its possible i would say very likely. Alternative to violent means you build your country educate and elevate your people and areas you have find allies and trades and recognition and then negotiate with israel like equals. Nothing of sort have been done period. I think i agreed about the self-governance im not trying to defend what Britts did. I already said this. So now i will ask the questions. 2023 does israel have the right to exist in those lands?Not including west bank gazas. no why/yes why? From 1948 did Palestinians have any responsibility to build their own country gaza westbank? yes why/no why? From 1948 did Palestine did a good job building up their country gaza westbank? yes why/no why?

1. No in hamas and palestinians eyes from river to the sea. If im not mistaken before 2nd Intifada israel removed settlements and then terroristic attacks increased and war followed. 4.was mistake sorry that would happen with one state solution. 3. I would give less than 15% that terrorists accept. Can you admit that if 3and1 fails there are no real answer to solve this conflict in negotiations or talks for a foreseeable future?? Ah no sorry in 2005 they removed settlements and they elected Hamas in 2006 OMEGALOL Israeli disengagement from Gaza - Wikipedia

This is not a real answer. This is Disney tale with vague statements and steps. This is like socialists on the internet telling about their socialist utopia you get this kind of nonsensical answer. I cant engage with this compete fantasy and utopian thinking.

So we negotiating with hamas dont forget. 1. Release the all stolen land you mean from the river to the sea right? its all stolen? right? 3. What is percentage you would give that Hamas would accept? more than 30% or less than 30% 4. sry sry misread.

Whoa didint we already talked about this? i literally answered all of these questions and you liked those comments. Why are we doing a round two? Are you going to answer mine?

So you see i actually said concrete steps in the comment above.1. give them freedom unblock them 2. support them for few years 3. let them guide themselves into terrorism 4. attack them 5 Annex them. People keep saying talks negotiations like its a real answer to the question. ITS NOT Can you give me 5 steps in negotiations with Hamas what would you negotiate give or take stuff to solve the conflict. Good Luck.

@VILLAMARV you ok buddy? you wanted to ask me a question or something? I think im here in a minority who actually will answer questions and have strong position about stuff and not try to weasel out of difficult questions or dog-whistle endlessly. I think IDF should come kick their assess(literally) pack their stuff and bring them home. Those people are religious lunatics and provokers they should not be there. No i suggest pull out of Gaza unblock them fully support them for a few years then cut everything off and let them guide themselves into terrorist actions and then attack them with full force and annex them. You trying to paint a picture like Palestinians want peaceful solution and they are getting cheated by Israel or UN. NO! HARD NO! As i understand Palestinians in every step sabotaged peaceful solutions and talks for decades! Thats why their population is uneducated thats why they dont have any real allies thats why they have terrorists in government and thousands of rockets flying into the israel. They care about from river to the sea more than they care about population education or living conditions. Self-governance. Hey i am not defending what Britts did i think its a mess. Everyone is talking about Israel and UN and Britts responsibilities. But no one is talking about Palestine responsibilities building their own country. Decisions or events in 1920 or 1948 or 1967 didnt prevented Palestine to build their country into normal country. We cant pretend that because of those dates Palestinians have no responsibilities. When i look at Palestine i dont see a country who wants to be a country or who wants to survive as a country. I see a country who dont want another country (israel) to exist.

So i dont think this is comparable situation. Two strong militarily and nuclear countries with allies who prepare to go to war for them. Is not comparable to Gaza-israel 2023 conflict. As i read in the article that Pakistan government was calmer civilian population not army and India liked that if they go to war the calm Pakistan government is gone and you have a war on your hands. Its not comparable because Palestinians want from river to the see fantasy already. In India and Pakistan conflict i woud say its not worth it. And it was good decision but its not comparable to this.

I think people are intentionally being obtuse with the point i was trying to make and pretend its invalid. So my point was take any terroristic organization you prefer they have a country near your borders and they kill 4000 people in London. The suggestion that anyone would like to talk or negotiate after that event is ludicrous.