7392craig

Just now, Adam2003 said:

We give up on players too quickly, issue #3683628

I agree, however he hardly covered himself in glory during his time here.

Just now, Kiwivillan said:

Was top in calendar year for tackles and interceptions in the big 5 leagues. That's a DCM. They break up play like Nakamba. Some people want one and then when we get and they do the job it's like nah don't like him

Exactly. I like Nakamba, he just doesn’t seem to have a very high ceiling. I wouldn’t move him on but I can see him being used sporadically again.

5 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

 Some people hated Gueye "because doesn't score goals or assists". I'm sure someone has dredged up comments on here about him from years ago

My issue with him was he won the ball a lot, but gave it away too. That improved after he left, was great at Everton.

7 minutes ago, Steero113 said:

Even the bus accident that is Arsenal can't sell him now the manager has publicly said he'll 100% stay.

Surely?

Oh, I do hope so.

4 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

If you look through the league very few PL teams have a decent to starting 11 strikers backing up the first choice. Jury is out on Wesley but given cups, injury, and rotation he should get multiple opportunities to prove his quality. 

I imagine if he’s deemed surplus they’ll move him on, but I definitely think he’ll be given his chance. He was looking to build up a bit of form prior to that injury, I can’t imagine after all this recovery he won’t be given game time.

1 minute ago, danceoftheshamen said:

It appears they truly have joined the ballon ego fan types akin to Manure & the other scummy 6 clubs. Clearly not original Man City fans just more top weraing glory hunter types who live for belittling others from the delusion of being permanent residents of the top 4 spots that their owners wealth alone brings. 

I hope we do not ever get like that as a fan base if ever we gatecrash the party.

They are not alone however, i speak to similarly blinkered fans at work every night who "support" all sorts of teams. Even had a Derby fan the other night who was genuinely convinced they were a much bigger club than Villa  

It was a couple of Forest fans who took the "p" out of him for it however not me so i didn't even need to bother saying a thing.

As for Jack staying? Lets hope so. Maybe then with all the attention on him & the overall opposition fans view of Him being by far the best player we have in a really poor villa team" we can continue to slowly build a side who can challenge them and knock them of their perch from time to time.

 

I expect a couple more signings, I don’t think we’re that far away from top 6 with Jack only getting better. I think we’re nearly there.

3 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I don't think you understand the police brutality issue if this is your summation.

I also find it quite alarming that you think the protests over someone being killed for having a fake $20 note (apparently?) made little sense.  It's absolutely outrageous that any police officer would have dealt with anyone that way.  Destroying public property is obviously a crime - but killing someone (whilst stating they can't breathe) for a counterfeit note whilst in a position of power is about a million times worse - and that was the tip of the iceberg in a long history of over-zealous enforcement against black civilians.  Of course protesting made sense.

You're pretty vague in your dislike of the movement/organisation/whatever, but that's obviously your call.  I haven't seen anything that suggests they exclude members of other races (source?) and you haven't said what their narrative is that you oppose nor how they're doing greater harm than good.  It's all just soundbite stuff.

I won't profess to being knowledgeable with what the organisation is doing as, frankly, I don't really know nor pay much attention to matters over the pond but I'd hope those who have strong feelings against something could offer a bit more as to why they are bad.  In the same way that someone who is against footballers taking the knee would have a good reason as to why they shouldn't.  Sadly, it seems that those against it are racist to some extent.

The killing of George Flloyd doesn’t need to be argued, it was a horrific incident that deserved all the attention it got. But I don’t accept it as evidence that black people are under threat any more than any other race by the police. If that is where we differ then so be it. I certainly have never opposed any footballers/sportspersons use of it so far. Racism in open society is the lowest in history. Online however is another problem, social media has given a platform to the small majority of racists that cause genuine harm to each individual who suffers. The hate they receive is real and needs to be stamped out. I don’t see the issue as a reflection of larger society however.

46 minutes ago, Folski said:

Betfair / Paddy power are offering 15/8 that he stays max bet £250 €311.

 

I've just chunked €300 on with each of them.

I think it's free money, now mind you wont get paid till 3rd of September but how bad.

For what it’s worth, I know a relative of Jack’s. They said the talk of him leaving was his agent looking for a best deal, he was always staying. I know it’s nothing, but it’s hopeful at least.

31 minutes ago, blandy said:

I’m with @7392craig to an extent. USA BLM do not have the, or all the, answers and solutions to racism. Because of the federal nature of the states, defund the police maybe is necessary in a handful of states, but in others definitely not. They are an “organisation” that is pretty much very radical and charged up with “righteousness”, but their range of solutions and statements is as much emotional as practical in many instances. 

To be more specific in my point. The blm organisation implies that black people are under some sort of existential threat, that is why so many of their approaches are emotionally charged. It does not mean that I oppose change that has came about because of their occurrence. I believe racism exists and we should make constant attempt to eradicate this where possible. Change is needed per example, where necessary. The idea that radical change is needed or even necessary is where I disagree.

31 minutes ago, bobzy said:

That's fair - even if very vague.  To me, it seems a bit odd to be against a movement because they "don't have the answers".  I'd assume that highlighting the issues and raising awareness of, say, police brutality against black people would be a good thing even if the method of doing so isn't something you'd approve of.  In the same way that taking a knee is a good thing because it highlights the racism issue even if you think some people attribute it to a different thing altogether.

I'm guessing you wouldn't say you're "against" taking the knee (even though it clearly doesn't have the answers)?

 

Edit:  Sounds like entrapment - not after that at all.  Just struggle to see why anyone wouldn't be in favour of an anti-racism symbol - particularly if those minorities who are impacted want to do it.  Baffles my mind, it does.

@Rolta Just to save time.

Firstly, I was speaking about BLM the organisation, not the movement itself, my apologies.

I think an organisation that specifically excludes members of other races is racist itself and will inevitably cause racial tension. The ‘protests’ made little sense to me, destroying public and private property is a crime, has no place and the level of your outrage should not be correlated to the authenticity of your argument. I disagree that society is in a pandemic of racism. I disagree with the idea of equity being the answer to disparity. In regards to police brutality against black people, there is no evidence. White officers do not kill black suspects at a higher rate compared with non white officers. I’m not a racist because I oppose the blm narrative. I support all movement that is away from racial inequality, I believe blm is actually doing greater harm than good.

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

Care to explain why?

I find it hard to understand why so many people are against a movement which is about equality, so I'm always keen to learn.

A group can claim to be about equality whilst their opinion/means of achieving so can be incorrect. To keep it short, I believe racial equality is fundamental to a flourishing society, without it all we do is minimise the pool of potential, as talent and iq are limited as in any society. I don’t believe that blm’s views towards equity or how it is to be achieved, nor their stance on modern racism is anything more than damaging towards this, IMO. The BLM organisation has helped raise some important issues, which can only be a good thing. But it seems clear to me that it’s not them that have the answers.

6 minutes ago, blandy said:

That's fair, I guess. The symbolism was there with the USA MLK and Colin Kapaernick gestures and so on. Those got hijacked, to an extent by some people which presented to some an association with the defund the police type stuff.

But the thing is MLK wasn't about left wing or marxist or any other wing stuff - it was just racial equality, so it's a fine thing to use in this country too. The other point is that whatever gesture/symbol the footballers used would have been criticised in some way as being too this or too that - too Black power-y, too antagonistic, too confusing, too divisive...whatever.

"We want racial equality for all, and this is our way of saying that" - I mean it's very difficult to confuse that, or to misunderstand that, or to attribute what they're doing and saying as "you're not really doing that, you're really saying something else". Just listen to what they say. It's  a crystal clear, unambiguous demand and request for people to be treated fairly and no racism. Who could argue with that, really? Who would not support that?

I’m 100% on board with you. It’s not just the knee being hijacked though, it’s the unambiguous use of it. The England teams message for their use of the knee was clear, and fully understandable. But, it’s use by so many worldwide, for various different opinions on racial inequality has made it difficult to follow exactly what it is that it opposes. People may not support the knee, but it may not have anything to do with the England teams use of it.

8 minutes ago, Zatman said:

No but booing the knee means your a racist. 

Accusing the knee of beng marxist propaganda then you are a racist idiot 

I personally dont like poppy fascism but if its on at Villa Park i dont boo. I just ignore it maybe go the toilet or bar

 

I agree. Whilst I’m against the BLM movement itself, I see no reason why taking the knee has to be booed at stadiums. My original question was, that if you don’t support it, are you a racist? I don’t mean oppose it. Some footballers have spoken about it, but as it is used across the board by many people other than footballers, what is taking the knee representative of exactly now? Racism? Institutional racism? Systematic racism? Online racism? Is it racism towards black people in specific? It has had an effect on a lot of people in different ways and not everybody is going to support it, that does not mean that every person who does so is a racist.

21 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

if you oppose, not just be indifferent to, but actually OPPOSE any form of anti racism gesture (whether you do it silently or vocally) you are a racist, IMO

That would entirely be dependant on the gesture and the circumstances, each on its own basis. On the knee, I don’t oppose its gesture, I genuinely hate the idea of racism itself, it makes little sense.

9 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

so a football gives their reasons for doing a gesture, indicates it has nothing to do with any organisation, and instead than accepting that reason, you decide to create an association that the individuals themselves have repeatedly said doesn't exist?

Sorry, I’m not trying to argue, I just don’t understand what you mean. I understand the reason the players are doing it isn’t because of BLM, but it’s symbolism is already so tied up in it. It’s not me making the association, it was already there.

3 minutes ago, Rolta said:

The question is more clearly put, do you support anti racism or not?

I’m 100% anti racism. I’m not convinced that all people who oppose the knee are racists, as is the claim. Booing is another matter.

1 minute ago, tomav84 said:

nope...but i would say that if you oppose it citing reasons of a mythical association with BLM you are

Its association with BLM is already there.  It may have moved on, but footballers will struggle to say it’s just about online abuse.

7 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

you can't see any evidence because there is none. they (racists) are LOOKING for a reason to dislike the knee. i guarantee if they'd used an alternative gesture, they'd have found a reason to boo that too.

most people consider "the evidence" as being a player/manager/coach etc giving us THEIR reasons for doing this gesture and not looking for reasons to oppose it. a minority are ignoring the evidence and creating a false narrative that gives them something to hide behind

So it’s support the knee or you’re a racist? Genuine question.

Just now, Wainy316 said:

The only positive out of how he's been treated is that it might have given him a bit of insight into what life at Man City would be like.

I imagine the holte end in full voice singing super Jack will make him feel at home again. It’s not just that he’s so loved by the fans, he’s Mr Aston Villa, he really is our Totti.

Just need Leo for the cherry on top

14 minutes ago, useless said:

I'm fed up of hearing about Southgate and Grealish and his situation with England, will be glad when the whole thing is over, I dread international breaks for the same reason. Hopefully soon enough the talk of Grealish centres around a new contract.

Agreed. However, I hate the transfer windows for the same reason. Will he/won’t he leave? The sooner the season is underway, the better.

28 minutes ago, brummybloke said:

May get last seasons home shirt as the pro version is 20 quid now.

 

That’s a great deal. £20 for an XXXL pro shirt? Count me in.

12 minutes ago, hippo said:

Wasn't an injury. The other coaching staff were giving Jack instructions right before he was subbed.

In which case I really feel for him. Strategic or not, it just seems out of order.

I hope it’s an injury, or that was a massive slap in the face for Jack.

3 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Biggest loads of BS ever, he is one of the finest youngsters in the league.  He is a great talent that is up there with the best young players in the league like Saka and co.

He’s an amazing talent. He’ll be tearing it up on a regular basis, whoever he’s playing for in 3/4 years time imo.