Redman

I didn't want to say this earlier but I don't think Ancelotti was the right man anyway. Different managers operate better at different levels of the table, don't they? e.g. Roy Hodgson is the man to take you from bottom-6 to mid-table and Carlo is the man to take you from top-4 to title-contention. Villa need somebody in-between. Like Moyes or Jol. Maybe Hughes.

That isn't a fact though.

You might find some of the other forum members appreciate and welcome the views of an outsider. Correct me if I'm wrong. Hell, set up a poll if you like. I'll be only to happy to disappear if I'm genuinely unwelcome.

I'm assuming Liverpool are interested. Quite possibly, but let's be honest Liverpool are now a top 6 team at best. No CL, plenty of superior teams in the Prem, even if he wanted to move on and the Chairman would sell him without a new Manager's say so (0% chance of that), I'd assume that he would want to make a genuine step up from Villa? I suppose you could have made the same point about City chasing Milner last summer or Barry the year before. Sorry matey, it has been clear for a number of seasons what trajectory Citeh were on and I don't blame Barry or Milner for going there. Liverpool are not even in the same league in terms of ambition, prospects, finance or ability. That remains to be seen.

What you wasting your time on VillaTalk for? Get yourself down the bookies mate.

I'm assuming Liverpool are interested. Quite possibly, but let's be honest Liverpool are now a top 6 team at best. No CL, plenty of superior teams in the Prem, even if he wanted to move on and the Chairman would sell him without a new Manager's say so (0% chance of that), I'd assume that he would want to make a genuine step up from Villa? I suppose you could have made the same point about City chasing Milner last summer or Barry the year before.

In the case of Liverpool, no doubt Gerrard will be busy tapping up Downing during England training/duty. If he was there, I'm sure he would be.

I'm assuming Liverpool are interested.

The dilemma is Villa don't know what the player's agent knows. If the club fail to inform the player of a serious offer, they risk unsettling him further if he finds out about it anyway.

It's still worthwhile for clubs to make an offer now while he's unsettled. They want to make it as hard as possible for the new manager to persuade him to stay.

Oh boy where do I start. First I guess I should say I see you didn't actually mean your previous posts when you said you weren't going to continue to 'reason' with me. Sadly. Next I suggest you purchase a dictionary and you take a little time to look up the meaning of the word 'objective'. I'm perfectly capable of being objective which is why I've said Downing may well leave and that he may well leave to join you. What I'm disputing is your frankly daft claim that we may see some form of opportunity in selling him at a time we have no manager and that an offer of £4m above what we paid for the player will be enough to tempt us. This despite the fact he has 2 years remaining on his contract. No lack of objectivity there. What I'm perhaps lacking is the pair of rather large blinkers you appear to be wearing that make you think its still the 1980's and that Liverpool are the biggest game in town, well it ain't the 80's are you aren't. Further you have previously tried to bully us in to flogging you Barry and you were sent packing yet you are now trying to suggest you might in some way pressure us into taking your offer for Downing while it remains on the table. And you want to try and lecture me about objectivity? Believe me there is nothing hard to understand in what you have posted, I need no help understanding it. I understand it perfectly well which is why I'm responding to it and being critical of your underlying belief that we might actually be willing to entertain this offer. Sure Liverpool are free to bid for whoever they want and had you come on here and talked about that I wouldn't have had a problem with it. What I have a problem with is this talk of window of opportunity and trying to push a deal through as if Villa are but bystanders or a club that will be pushed around by Liverpool when we have already proven we won't. Now I'm not sure I could make that any more simple to understand for you, so I don't think I need tell you what you can do with your offer of help. Mate, you're arguing with yourself. Very little of anything you just posted has anything to do with me. You are really are struggling here. Forget Aston Villa and Liverpool. Think Club A and Club B. Be objective. Just try. Club A has no manager and a player refusing to sign a new contract. Do you not understand how Club B could sense an opportunity there? If there isn't one, then there isn't one. But there's only one way Club B will find out, isn't there? Now just get your head around that very basic logic and leave me alone will you. Downing isn't refusing to sign a contract though. He's simply waiting to see how things unfold regarding the manager situation. Then he'll sit down with him and make a decision then. In that case, even more reason why clubs might try and take advantage now while there's no manager and while he's unsettled.

Oh boy where do I start. First I guess I should say I see you didn't actually mean your previous posts when you said you weren't going to continue to 'reason' with me. Sadly. Next I suggest you purchase a dictionary and you take a little time to look up the meaning of the word 'objective'. I'm perfectly capable of being objective which is why I've said Downing may well leave and that he may well leave to join you. What I'm disputing is your frankly daft claim that we may see some form of opportunity in selling him at a time we have no manager and that an offer of £4m above what we paid for the player will be enough to tempt us. This despite the fact he has 2 years remaining on his contract. No lack of objectivity there. What I'm perhaps lacking is the pair of rather large blinkers you appear to be wearing that make you think its still the 1980's and that Liverpool are the biggest game in town, well it ain't the 80's are you aren't. Further you have previously tried to bully us in to flogging you Barry and you were sent packing yet you are now trying to suggest you might in some way pressure us into taking your offer for Downing while it remains on the table. And you want to try and lecture me about objectivity? Believe me there is nothing hard to understand in what you have posted, I need no help understanding it. I understand it perfectly well which is why I'm responding to it and being critical of your underlying belief that we might actually be willing to entertain this offer. Sure Liverpool are free to bid for whoever they want and had you come on here and talked about that I wouldn't have had a problem with it. What I have a problem with is this talk of window of opportunity and trying to push a deal through as if Villa are but bystanders or a club that will be pushed around by Liverpool when we have already proven we won't. Now I'm not sure I could make that any more simple to understand for you, so I don't think I need tell you what you can do with your offer of help. Mate, you're arguing with yourself. Very little of anything you just posted has anything to do with me. You really are struggling here. Forget Aston Villa and Liverpool. Think Club A and Club B. Be objective. Just try. Club A has no manager and a player refusing to sign a new contract. Do you not understand how Club B could sense an opportunity there? If there isn't one, then there isn't one. But there's only one way Club B will find out, isn't there? Now just get your head around that very basic logic and leave me alone will you.

Just searched a few past Jason Burt articles and he doesn't seem like a bullshitter, unfortunately. Seems close to Chelsea too having reported the Arnesen departure, Emalano promotion and Ancelotti departure. Could be that he still has a contact close to Ancelotti.

Window of opportunity????? By all means stop trying to reason with me because your reasoning is **** flawed. We told you were to stick your window of opportunity once with Barry and I'm certain that while we have no manager in place we will do so again. You talk as if you are the only club that would be interested in Downing yet as you found out with Young its rarely the case. You though you held all the aces with Barry but you didn't did you and you didn't get your way then either. I'm not saying we won't sell Downing this summer or that we won't sell him to you but we won't sell him to you while we have no manager. As for the price I'm sure many Liverpool fans think £16m for Downing is a fair price perhaps it is in terms of his ability or worth to you. The value of a player though is dictated primarily by the selling club not the buying club and it is then up to the buying club if they wish to meet it or not, obviously with a degree of negotiation. What a player is worth to one club in a deal is rarely the same as to the other. To Liverpool Downing may not be worth more than £16m, in comparison to player from abroad he probably isn't but then you never know when you go shopping abroad do you as you should recall from your eventual replacement for Alonse who is currently back in Italy on loan. I'll refer you to the first line of my previous post. And I will refer you the second line of my previous post. You're incapable of being objective. That's fine. If I could make it any more simple to understand, I would. Sorry I can't assist further.

I don't know why this is so difficult to understand. Your new manager might insist no players are sold or he might sit down with Downing and sell him his vision. So if Liverpool (or any other club) is interested in Downing (or any other player), why wait to make an offer? That isn't to say any offer will be welcomed or accepted. Others have told you that we almost certainly won't be accepting bids for players without a manager. Therefore, how the hell is it a 'window of opportunity' if there's a 0% of us selling him now as opposed to when we have a manager, where it might be higher? Because often, the transition period between managers does open a window of opportunity to raid clubs. Look how Frank Arnesen is helping himself to Chelsea players, for example. Villa may well have a policy of not doing business without a manager but does that mean clubs shouldn't test that policy by making offers anyway? A club selling cast off's and a club selling their best players is a little different. But the point stands, doesn't it? Some managers have veto power over transfers, some players are unsettled during transition periods and some CEOs even welcome the chance to do business when there's nobody there to oppose it. None of the above may apply to Villa but there's only one way a club will find out.

I don't know why this is so difficult to understand. Your new manager might insist no players are sold or he might sit down with Downing and sell him his vision. So if Liverpool (or any other club) is interested in Downing (or any other player), why wait to make an offer? That isn't to say any offer will be welcomed or accepted. Others have told you that we almost certainly won't be accepting bids for players without a manager. Therefore, how the hell is it a 'window of opportunity' if there's a 0% of us selling him now as opposed to when we have a manager, where it might be higher? Because often, the transition period between managers does open a window of opportunity to raid clubs. Look how Frank Arnesen is helping himself to Chelsea players, for example. Villa may well have a policy of not doing business without a manager but does that mean clubs shouldn't test that policy by making offers anyway?

I don't know why this is so difficult to understand. Your new manager might insist no players are sold or he might sit down with Downing and sell him his vision. So if Liverpool (or any other club) is interested in Downing (or any other player), why wait to make an offer? That isn't to say any offer will be welcomed or accepted.

Window of opportunity????? By all means stop trying to reason with me because your reasoning is **** flawed. We told you were to stick your window of opportunity once with Barry and I'm certain that while we have no manager in place we will do so again. You talk as if you are the only club that would be interested in Downing yet as you found out with Young its rarely the case. You though you held all the aces with Barry but you didn't did you and you didn't get your way then either. I'm not saying we won't sell Downing this summer or that we won't sell him to you but we won't sell him to you while we have no manager. As for the price I'm sure many Liverpool fans think £16m for Downing is a fair price perhaps it is in terms of his ability or worth to you. The value of a player though is dictated primarily by the selling club not the buying club and it is then up to the buying club if they wish to meet it or not, obviously with a degree of negotiation. What a player is worth to one club in a deal is rarely the same as to the other. To Liverpool Downing may not be worth more than £16m, in comparison to player from abroad he probably isn't but then you never know when you go shopping abroad do you as you should recall from your eventual replacement for Alonse who is currently back in Italy on loan. I'll refer you to the first line of my previous post.

Unlikely.

Not at all. Clubs bid for players its the way of the world I've no issue with that or with you coming on here to tell us that is supposed to be the case in relation to Liverpool and Downing. What pisses me off is the underlying arrogance in the idea we might be bullied into selling for such a crap price and at a time when we've not got a manager. I think its a fairly safe assumption that we won't sell in our current circumstances. What underlying arrogance? Be objective for a second: Club A has no manager and a player refusing to sign a contract extension. Club B senses a window of opportunity to do business, makes an offer. You be objective. A) He has two years remaining on his contract Clubs generally speaking don't sell players when they have no manager in place. I'm not saying Downing won't leave or that there is no way he won't go to you, I'd say there is a good chance of either or both of these happening. What won't happen though is you will not strong arm Villa into selling a England internation with 24 months remaining on his contract for £4m more than we paid for him. You tried and failed to strong arm us on Barry and we put principle ahead of money on that occasion, keeping Barry for another season and selling him for less rather than be forced into something by you. Yet you come on here trying to say we might be tempted to go for this deal? I think its you that needs a little more objectivity and as I said previously a little less arrogance. Downing might well fancy the move and all thins considered I wouldn't blame him but it won't happen while he we have no manager. This is the last time I'll try to reason with you before I give up. This is ALL I'm saying: Club A has no manager (i.e. somebody with 100% interest in team building and 0% interest in business deals) and a player refusing to sign a contract extension. Club B senses a window of opportunity to do business, makes an offer. That's it. No prejudice, no presumption, no arrogance.

Club A then tells club B to **** off as we have no manager, the player still has 2 years remaining on his contract, we won't be selling him and aim to match his ambitions. In which case, so be it.

Not at all. Clubs bid for players its the way of the world I've no issue with that or with you coming on here to tell us that is supposed to be the case in relation to Liverpool and Downing. What pisses me off is the underlying arrogance in the idea we might be bullied into selling for such a crap price and at a time when we've not got a manager. I think its a fairly safe assumption that we won't sell in our current circumstances. What underlying arrogance? Be objective for a second: Club A has no manager and a player refusing to sign a contract extension. Club B senses a window of opportunity to do business, makes an offer.

Because I think your suggestion we will be tempted to flog an England international for a £4m profit while we have no manager in place is frankly stupid and insulting. My suggestion? You are clearly fishing for a reaction, I'm not going to give you the satisfaction. Thanks for letting us know your most interesting ITK info though. I'm doing nothing of the sort. You're just shooting the messenger is all.

Because I think your suggestion we will be tempted to flog an England international for a £4m profit while we have no manager in place is frankly stupid and insulting. My suggestion?

That's very presumptuous. As a matter of fact, the new Liverpool policy is to report nothing until there is something to report but that won't stop agents leaking, journalists digging and other clubs briefing. And that assumes I give a flying **** what Liverpool's policy is on anything. Conversely you clearly put a lot of store on what is being said by agents and journalists as you started the debate on this thread. But if Liverpool say nothing why did you bother to report the leaks and digging? Well if you don't give a flying ****, I guess there's no point discussing it further.