El-Reacho

^^ I notice Nike are no longer part of the Tour. I'm not sure they have any sponsorship in cycling anymore? I remember they came in and threw money at the sport after Armstrong's first win.

Murky just about sums it up. The more I think of how the Tour is panning out the more I doubt Froome to be honest, as opposed to Wiggins and Sky as a whole. If Froome wasn't there and Wiggins had achieved what he has so far I think that's plausible enough because we all knew Wiggo and Cadel would be the two favourites and the ITT's would be decisive. Wiggo's transformation to GC contender is also plausible as it wasn't necessarily overnight and he talked about it before he actually did it. Froome on the other hand was set to be released by Sky before the Vuelta last year. His palmares barely registers before then and now he's contending the Tour. If as you suggest Sky are ignorant of what the riders do then Brailsford must be panicking about this guy. I take your point re. Wiggins' performance today, but Froome's never won a TT before and yet puts half a minute into Cancellara? Radioshack's issues regarding team leadership had no bearing on Fabian's performance today because he said when he finished he felt that no one would beat his time.

Paulo, those are exactly the same arguments that USPS gave for their total dominance. I completely disagree that they're simply able to put more effort into the smaller details. It's disrespectful to suggest that anyone who harbours any aspirations of either winning GC, or mountain stages isn't going to do training runs on a climb they've never used in the Tour before. BMC and AG2R certainly did in the run up to the Tour. It's also worth pointing out that Sky have employed Rabobank's former Doctor, who has major question marks over him after the Rasmussan affair. Fair enough they can only be considered question marks, but for everything thing they're able to do with regard to bringing new techniques from other sports and other disciplines of cycling, why do they need to revert to bringing guys like him and Yates on board. Particularly when they so steadfastly refuse to allow Millar, who you would consider to be the most outspoken anti-doper in the peloton to join. Also when Wiggo was at Garmin he made a big point about the need to publish his own blood values after the tour. Why has he not felt the need to do this in the time he's been at Sky? If he's going to be so aggressively defensive about the integrity of his performances, Sky should publish all of their rider's values on a regular basis.

Clark. Empower the youth - let them take ownership of this team.

Not sure what that means? Negative, Positive? Or both? What do you guys think?

Until now I've considered Sky, along with Garmin and the French teams to be clean. But if Liquigas, randomly picked for example, showed the dominance that Sky have shown over the last three days, with two riders that have dramatically transformed themselves into GC contenders in a way that only Armstrong has done before, I would simply turn the TV off. I knew Wiggins would do well today, and we've talked about Froome being competitive but to simply blow Evans, Cancellara, and Menchov to pieces like that makes me feel pretty uncomfortable particularly with regard to Froome. Froome was obviously not instructed to hold back in any way today so his performances in the mountains this week will be interesting to say the least.

Am feeling like I felt when Armstrong won in '99. Only with all the hindsight....

What exactly are you referring to 'LondonLax' - if indeed that is your real name?? :winkold:

As a man who rides a Hampsten (and did the logo!) you could get it right Personally I think the generation in the 80s were the ones who changed it; Anderson refusing to drink perrier and drinking Coke instead, the 7/11 team, but more than anyone the legend that is LeMond. First million dollar rider. Did what the hell he wanted, much to the annoyance of the Badger, etc. I think its hard to imagine Armstrong ever existing without LeMond. LeMond got the US interested (wasn’t he the first cycling Sports Illustrated winner?) and the TV networks. He was also the first to get all of the big sponsorship deals. Agree that British cycling from those humble beginnings in Barçelona in 1992 has allowed Sky to develop. They had a plan, and its beginning to bear rich fruit. Fair play Paulo, excuse my ignorance. They look like lovely bikes. That image of Hampsten in the snow when he won the Giro is absolutely iconic. The psychological battles between LeMond and Hinault when they crossed the line arm and arm, and then subsequently the '89 tour with Fignon are just brilliant. The officials asking Fignon to cover up his yellow jersey after losing a TT finish on the Champs Elysee when he was utterly distraught - you really couldn't make up stuff like that if you tried. It's no wonder the Americans absolutely loved it. I think the money, the sports science, the PR machines and everything else have sterilised cycling these days - you can probably say that about alot of sports mind.

Yes just as long as the core of the team remains British. this is important in my opinion. I couldn't give a stuff where they came from as long as they are good, improve us and enable us to compete a lot higher up the table Absolutely I agree but for this to happen the majority of the squad should dare I say "need" to be British. This is a British club competing in a British league. To fill the team with a smorgasboard of nationalities cannot help team bonding. Can't agree with this. Not being able to bond successfully as a team because of different nationalities is a ridiculous notion. I have no doubt whatoever that statistics would show that in modern football there is no advantage in having a 'core' of players native to the league a certain team is playing in. Arsenal's invincibles certainly didn't. Inter has had a core of Argentinians for the last 10-15 years and have done alright. The idea that you can't bond with someone because they're foreign is absurd. Or that someone who's foreign can't form part of the core of the team. Petrov has been a stronger presence in the Villa side for the past six years than any British player has.

I actually don't agree. A lack of English speaking teams never hindered Millar, Roche, Kelly, LeMond, Anderson, Hampston etc who all moved to Europe, learned their host's respective languages and ingrained themselves in the continental cycling culture. Cadel only rode for an english speaking team when he joined BMC and was an established Tour contender (and WC) before then. Likewise Wiggins spent the first half of the decade riding for french teams. Armstrong was the first english speaker to go to the Tour and dictate his own terms, shunning the french media culture etc. Whilst the increase in American teams is down to his legacy, I don't know that that is something long term because the USADA verdict will have a huge impact on cycling in America. Germany simply won't invest in cycling as they see it as tarnished after T-Mobiles repeated positives. They don't even show coverage of the tour. I think Denmark is similar now days after Rasmussan? Look at the trouble Riis has had trying to find a sponsor and he has Contador, who could win tours for the next 5 years +. I think British Cycling's success on the track over the past decade has had more to do with Sky's investment than Armstrong IMHO.

Yeah I know what you mean. I think this year's Tour will be more exciting in terms of establishing who will contend for the next few years. Sagan looks incredible, and I really hope he's as good as he seems. But Taaramae, Gallopin, Rolland, Van Garderen, Boassan Hagen, will all only get better. I really hope Dan Martin finds his climbing legs too, because he could be leading Garmin in a year's time. Throw in A Schleck, and Contador next year too, and Chris Froome is only 27.

That fills me with dread :shock: Yeah, it would do to be fair. But then Wiggo's comments about Lance really annoyed me. Brad was struggling as a clean rider throughout the early 00's - he would have seen Lance's reaction to Simeoni and Bassons for breaking the 'omerta'. Yet he comes out and basically falls at Armstrong's feet in adoration for the guy and what he's done for cycling. Whilst I still have faith the guy is clean, his comments today were ominously similar to Armstrong's 'plea' after he won the Tour in 2005 - begging for us all to have faith in Jan Ullrich and Ivan Basso. If I'm honest I get pretty cynical with so many riders these days but I've always given Cadel the benefit of the doubt. I really hope I'm right.

I actually met Cadel at the Dauphine in 2008 - he was the nicest guy in the world, had time for everyone at the finish and again the start the next day. When he went on to the tour that year he seemed to implode with the pressure of everything, but has adjusted since then. Didn't know about Lance's bodyguards mind you. I took exception to Wiggins' treatment of Garmin after they had the confidence to back him in the Tour. He dropped them like a stone at the end of that season, his Wigan to Man Utd comments were a bit of a slap in the face I thought, particularly when Sky hadn't even entered a race at that stage.

If he can keep any sort of team around him in the mountains, yes. Rogers and Knees need to stay both crash free and on form. Evans's team is looking strong in these early stages ... Think you missed out Froome; he was sensational at the Vuelta last year. Knew Froome was the man. I think he’s a strong possibility for a place on the podium. If only he hadn’t lost that time... Froome looked incredible today. Really think Sky should have thought about this guy leading rather than Wiggins. If they'd put as much effort into getting Froome through the first week intact as they had Wiggins I think they would have a better chance of winning overall. I reckon Evans can drop Wiggo on the longer mountain stages, but Froome looke better than anyone on that climb today. If Sky had been bold in the Vuelta they would have made Froome leader and made Wiggo work for him and they'd have won it. They could end up making exactly the same mistake here. I know I'm being negative about Wiggins but I think he comes across as a right prick. Would much rather Evans or Froome won it.

I agree. Warnock is much worse. LB is more of a priority for me. Absolutely agree with this. Fair enough Hutton had a shocker of a season last year. But Lichaj was consistently very good when he got in. The best right back performance of last year was when Herd came in against Wolves. So we have Lichaj(23?), Hutton, and Herd(22?) and have gone and bought another young right back. Meanwhile on the left we have Warnock who has been terrible since O'Neill left, is oldish and is on big money, and Stevens, whilst I really hope he can do a good job (as an Ireland fan also), he has a big question mark over whether he can make it. Surely a loan deal to the Championship would be a good idea? Anyway I'd rather we were after the left back version of Howton/Clyne/Naughton. I know the three are capable of playing at LB but essentially they are right backs. Taylor from Swansea was the one for me - with Lichaj at RB.

Have just noticed Michael Bradley has signed for AS Roma today. Seems to have done alright since we decided he wasn't good enough for us.

I think it's more than enough to knock him out of contention for the win, particularly this Tour when the time trials will probably decide it. If the favourites all reach Paris without having crashed I think the gaps will actually be quite small.

Have just noticed he's 1'41 down. Bizarre that all the hype is around Wiggins and there's barely been a mention of Froome.

If he can keep any sort of team around him in the mountains, yes. Rogers and Knees need to stay both crash free and on form. Evans's team is looking strong in these early stages ... Think you missed out Froome; he was sensational at the Vuelta last year. If Froome is anywhere close to his form last September and Wiggins slips up, Sky could end up with an even bigger problem than they currently have with Cav. Will they ask Froome to ease up in the time trials to help Wiggins in the mountains? Froome out-climbed and out-time trialled Wiggins in the Vuelta IIRC, I'd say he'd be pretty pissed off if wasn't allowed to ride for GC in the Tour.

Cav's girlfriend was certainly winging about it on twitter. The only time I can remember a squad being so well represented across the disciplines was Zabel and Riis/Ullrich at Telekom, although it turns out they had a little more help than just their team mates. These days I don't think it's possible to win sprints stages, take the green jersey, and then go into the mountains and compete for yellow. I think it's a bit of a shame as I think they are diluting their goals a fair bit. EBH is capable of going for green himself but seems to be fending for himself in the sprints just as Cav is. I think it was a big mistake for him not to go to a team like Lotto that would have been built around him and towed him to the line on every sprint stage. Do you guys reckon Wiggins will win?

I'm not so sure. I've been reading that whilst he's going for stage wins, he's also using le tour to prepare for the Olympic road race. He'll also want to win on the champs-elysees. Having said that, he might want to save his juice rather than haul himself over the alps and pyrenees. I think he'll get fed up. He's never been in a position where he's had to fight for position himself. Liquigas and Lotto will try and make sure he gets knocked off any wheel that will tow him to the line which looks like what what was happening yesterday when he crashed - he was miles back. He already seems to be having a winge at Sky putting all their resources into Wiggins too. Not sure what he was expecting when he signed his huge deal with Sky.

He's not going to sell many papers if he gets a reputation for telling bullshit stories though is he? He has credibility at the moment. If he starts to make up stories the club will blackball him.

JV has denied Zabriskie or VDV have got bans. Does any body think these guys might suddenly test positive in the next few weeks. It seems Armstrong's policy with regard to witnesses is to make sure he has an angle to discredit them. The UCI has alot to lose here and might help do this. Maybe I'm getting a tad too cynical.... I think Hincapie is the one that will hurt LA the most. Was Armstrong's right hand man from Motorola right the way through all of his tour victories. I think this also means that Lance will not be able to use the 'never tested positive' argument any longer, as these guys can say exactly the same thing despite being admitted dopers.

Sagan looks like an absolute beast - a cross between Cavendish and Cancellara? I don't think Cavendish has any intention of finishing the tour so I don't think he'll be too worried about the jersey.