tommo

Oh right well clearly the entire first 11 can't handle pressure at this level, which is rather unfortunate. That is a myth about Delph.

I can't for the life of me think how Delph and the fonz wouldn't do a better job than Stan and Gabby

i worry about diamanti vs stan now

60% possession to West Ham's 40%, 8 corners to their 1, and 7 shots to their 3, suggests our problem - if we actually have one - is not in midfield. If you think we're being bossed in midfield, I think we are watching different games. We're not being bossed but they have a 3 man midfield, which means we are struggling to break them down

MON needs to make it happen for once, because this clearly isn't working. And hopefully that will not involve shifting milner or heskey to right back.

I think if MON is going to talk up the squad, then he needs to understand what it is and use it. Oh how we have missed the energetic duo of Delph and NRC in this game. West Ham have well and truly parked the bus, and with a 5 man midfield they are outnumbering us. I'd have Delph on for Heskey. Not sure about the Luke Young decision either. Now we know Collins is a teachers pet alongside Petrov Heskey Gabby and co. Milner has done nothing, likewise Stan and Downing- whose passing is a bit off.

Guzan 6- a bit shaky early on. Cuellar 7- good. Dunne 8.5*- didn't put a foot wrong. Collins 6.5- not convincing early on but was decent. Warnock 7- good. Young 7- a little wasteful but was always dangerous tonight Milner 8- everywhere and was the best attacking force on the pitch. Petrov 6- ok in the first half but stood off in the second. Downing 6.5- good at times and good work for the goal. Heskey 6.5- held the ball up well. Wasn't exactly a fox in the box. Gabby 5.5- generally hopeless, but improved when we went 451. Sidwell 6. A good tactical substitution from MON. Could have gone either way in the second half, but we deserved the win.

Slightly concerned about the Dunn v Petrov thing. He had him on toast in the league.

Ultimately the 4 3 3 is better in both an attacking and a defensive sense, particularly away from home, and definitely in a 2 legged cup tie where Blackburn are unlikely to get anything at Villa Park in the 2nd.

I think we should go with the mindset of not losing the game, and of course Stan will return, so I would play- ................Guzan Young....Cuellar....Dunne...Warnock ..........NRC.............Petrov .................Delph Milner.......Gabby.......Young Delph looked quality at the weekend, and NRC controlled the game, so they would both be in my side as they are proven against David Dunn who at Ewood outplayed Stan and Sidwell. This would give the wingers a good basis to attack. We have gone to Blackburn with a 442 this season and have been outpassed and outbattled against their ten men, so I just have a feeling it would be a bit naive to play what MON seems to think is our best 11 and look at the opposition first. The onus is on them in the first leg- so stop them and hit them on the break. Downing and Carew are there if something different needs to be tried.

I read in another article that NRC did what you describe. So was it NRC or Delph? Pretty sure it was Delph at the time, but you have me questioning that now. Anyone else like to confirm? If it was NRC I could understand the votes a bit more, as I thought he was good but not really the man of the match. It was NRC. They do look pritty similar though lol. It also says it was on the bbc or soccernet report- can't remember which

Thought it was a good performance against a Blackburn who weren't up to much, and hopefully the performances of some of the 2nd string will have given MON food for thought, because really they should do. Guzan 7-haven't seen the blackburn goal again but a good penalty save. Beye 7 Collins 7 Cuellar 7.5 (for goal!) Warnock 7 Young 7.5*-impressed with his willingness to go at the full back today, and his delivery brought about 2 goals Reo Coker 7.5 saw a lot of the ball and I think we are better for it when his driving presence is in the side. Delph 7.5 Everytime I have seen him he has looked class with the ball at his feet, today was no exception. Unfortunately injured at HT. Downing 6- so so, could have done with a rest. Fonz 7- pleased he scored and did enough to warrant another run out soon Heskey 6.5- did the 'Heskey' things well, without much more. Sidwell 6- ok but he was a little frustrating Carew- MON probably did the right thing bringing the Fonz off as he did fade a little 2nd half. Carew finished it with a casual penalty

Do you think MON and the coaches paid a fortune and with years and years of experience working with football players are stupid? Do you think if Petrov truly was as unfit as you claim that the manager and the professionals working at the club wouldn't notice? Do you not think players have their fitness monitored throughout the season? Do you not think that at bodymoor heath they have technology to know the exact fitness levels of every player? Do you think everyone should have the same opinion as MON? I think it's pretty stupid for someone to assume their opinion is right and MON's is wrong. Especially on a subject such as a players fitness when MON has plenty of staff and technology at his disposal to determine such things. Big John I think if anyone cannot see that Petrov tires then they are not watching the game properly. I think MON must see it, he is an intelligent man, but I think it is his way that the club captain must see out the 90 minutes with the exception of injury. Unfortunately Stan is our captain as opposed to say NRC or Dunne. That lets Stan down. I think MON probably sees it as a weakness to withdraw his captain, in a 1970s sort of way, even if was to benefit the team. The only time I remember him withdrawing Stan was against Newcastle 2 years ago when we were losing 1-0 at half time and that day and for some time Stan had been utterly shite...so his hand was forced and we won the game 4-1.

Friedel 7- good save from gerrard Young 6.5- solid enough Cuellar 6.5- a little shaky in the first half but improved Dunne 7.5*- best player on the pitch although he may have conceded a penalty and his slip before the goal was unfortunate Warnock 7- good Milner 5.5- under par, also lacked a little energy and things didn't seem to come off for him tonight. Petrov 5- played a nice crossfield pass on about 80 minutes which was one of his few contributions. Gave the ball away too much. Not good enough. Reo Coker 6.5- best of a poor front six and produced a moment to elude three scouse markers. Must have been under orders to sit deep yesterday though and I didn't see the all action NRC I was expecting. Shouldn't have been taken off, but of course MON won't substitute his captain. Downing 5- shoddy. Pure enthusiasm and skill can only take you so far after a lengthy injury. Give the guy a break. MON should realise this. Carew 4.5- everything he did turned to dust as opposed to gold. Gabby 5.5- first half less said the better, but improved when villa showed a bit of initiative. Albrighton 6- worked hard Sidwell- can't rate him. I'm not going to start complaining about MONs decisions because if it had stayed 0-0 I'd have been just frustrated. However, a last minute goal from a world class striker has changed my whole opinion on the game, so i'm just going to see how they bounce back from this.

Ideally both, but I'd settle for beating citeh or united in a cup final everytime, and then proceeding to finish above citeh, who finish 6th or 7th. At the end of the day, only one of those four sides can make the 4th spot, so three of Spurs, Scouse Citeh and us are going to end up disappointed anyway. I'd take the league cup if I had to make the choice. 5th would still see us finish above 2 of those sides.

well I know that 'we'd have already won the carling cup' was sarcasm, but the feeling that if NRC had been playing, or at least the right systems been played, we'd be in a loftier position, and have got past the 1st round of EUROPA...I don't see that being that sarcastic. If Chelsea had played Cole....Ballack....Lampard...Malouda .........Anelka....Drogba all season and were sat in fifth place after they had all of won of the say, 5 games Essien had played, and then he was dropped and teams were starting to play them off the park, I'm sure Chelsea fans would say that poor form was down to the fact Essien's protective and harrying qualities weren't on the field to complement the more 'pleasing on the eye' players

Thats all very well BJ but if we'd have dropped a forward and played Reo Coker in every game we'd now be top of the league and already have won the Carling Cup. Is this sarcastic Mark? Thing is, if Chelsea hadn't played Essien this year, and played the more aesthetically pleasing Ballack or Deco instead, they probably wouldn't be top, and if United hadn't played Fletcher who isn't their most gifted player, their form may well have dipped. Players can make a difference and as far as i'm concerned NRC has made a massive difference to our system whenever he has played recently

Generally the side that was so free flowing with Laursen in it involved this- NRC...Petrov...Barry .....................Young .....Carew....Gabby Laursen was a factor defensively but you also had NRC in there who didn't play completely on the right and was able to do Stan and Barry's dirty work. You also had Young in a freer role which is what saw him win the PFA young player. Now we have Milner, MON is obliged to play him, and seeing as he intends to play 442, they are having to do too much defensive work. Laursen continued to be a rock individually, but I seem to remember us scoring loads and conceding a fair few at this time as well. Young was on top form in the 07/08 season and he was still playing the freer role the following season, even in the 433, but then his own form diminished rapidly when we returned to the 442 with 2 wingers and two slow midfielders.

All we can do is hope he will one day change it. It's OK at the moment that we win or draw most of our home games, and then get beaten, outplayed by poorer sides and snatch undeserved draws away from home, because at the end of the day we'd probably achieve the 6th/7th place that everyone expects anyway. We are not going to become a great away side playing this 442 system, it has been found out consistently over the past year, and it continues to be found out. The best teams win possession in the middle which usually involves having 3 men centrally and the wingers will get more freedom as a result. We would be a more dominant side at home also imo with the 433. Anyway I think this current system can work, as long as it is supplemented in the second half. The same thing happened against Hull as it did against Man City and Spuds, but fortunately players such as Bullard, Geovanni and Hesselink weren't on the field to exploit it, and they were left with Dean Marney. I don't think this system is going to work all the time without the neccessary energy and protection in the centre.

I left this comment on the 'Is Petrov overrated' thread a while back which nobody commented on because the conversation had ended lol!- "In the first half v Hull I thought he was excellent, actually tracked back and attempted to make thoughtful passes. In the second he was invisible and watching him I noticed he was no longer making himself available for Milner when he should be commanding the game more, probably down to the fact that he has played 270 mins this week when there is already questions being asked about his stamina. I don't think he's overrated which is what this group hints at. At times he shows himself to be our best player from a purely technical point of view. I think it is MONs inability or refusal to see his weaknesses and provide the right personnel around him so he can always play his natural game, and that lets Petrov down unfortunately and shifts the blame onto him unfairly. Petrov has never been and probably never will be at his age, a harrying midfield destroyer, he is a creative presence to keep things ticking over, and it's up to MON to spot what he doesn't bring to the team, and get someone else to do it (ie NRC), whilst keeping Petrov's qualities on the pitch." So I echo your thoughts AVFC PoB. I think Petrov is a good player, but Lampard is a good player, Fabregas, and so is Carrick. It is proven however that these sides fail to play with the same intensity and defensive solidity when an Essien/Diaby/Fletcher figure is missing. They might win the majority of their games anyway but that's because they have shed loads of cash and have fantastic players. It is usual for a good side to have the best of both worlds. Liverpool had this last season with the Mascherano/Alonso/Gerrard combo producing great results, but they have now lost the creative factor and are struggling. So i'm not saying take out Petrov and add NRC, because while we would have extra bite, we would lose the player that keeps things ticking over. My answer with our current personnel would be ............NRC......Petrov Young......Milner.......Downing .........Gabby/Heskey/Carew I seem to remember Chelsea building a great side with a 4-3-3 and two wingers .......Makelele....Essien Duff.....Lampard....Robben ..........Drogba and Barcelona, again with two wingers, playing some of the best football ever ......Toure.....Hernandez Messi.....Iniesta....Henry ...........Eto'o So I don't buy the negativity argument. This system wins games, it has not failed with the Villa, and often the best teams play it. I'm not suggesting for one minute that I know more than MON, but he is set in his ways and has his own ideals, and that probably involves having a hard working 442 system. But he still needs to prove it can work, particularly away from home, where we are frequently being outplayed for long periods by poor sides, or it could hold us back. For me, the system I suggest for Villa is obvious and imo would bring us considerably more success on top of the good work MON has already done. But it's up to him at the end of the day and all we can do is debate.

...............Friedel Young Dunne Cuellar Warnock .........Petrov...NRC Young.....Milner......Downing ............Gabby Stop them playing first and foremost. We have more than enough going forward anyway, and we can still go at them with this side- as was proved against Arsenal at home last year. Big John probably as opposed to Heskey for impact purposes (which is harsh), or even Gabby with that sort of quality ball coming into the box. Play this team and i'll go for a 2-1 win and be quietly confident. I think we might not have enough protection if we keep the same team, and we wouldn't be able to change it if things aren't going well...but we would still have plenty going forwards. 3-2 united like last year in that case.

I think the fact that L.Young and Warnock have only received 2 MOTM votes suggests that full back is a very underrated position. I thought both of them had superb games, particularly Young who was my personal MOTM, despite Milner's excellence.

For me, playing the three of them is the way forward. Throwing NRC in alongside Stan and the transformation would be complete.

Friedel- can't give him 6 as that's harsh and can't give him 7 as is too generous. Literally had nothing to do. L.Young 8.5*- he was quick to intercept, solid and good going forwards. Dunne 7.5- missed one or two headers you would have expected him to make but generally solid. Cuellar 7.5- Much like Dunne, didn't seem to do much wrong, but then again wasn't challenged a great deal. Warnock 8- both full backs had excellent games. A.Young 4- Why he isn't removed for able replacements on the bench baffles me when he plays like this. Got in so many promising situations but was utterly wasteful and frustrating. Got himself booked needlessly too. Hull fans chanted "you'll never play for England", which says a lot about his performance. Petrov 6- while his first half performance showed glimpses of great talent, in the second he looked knackered and predictably became invisible. He should be stamping his authority on these poorer sides (as the holding midfielder) for the full 90, either that or MON should be prepared to substitute him. He's played 270 mins this week, give the guy a break. Milner 8- superb effort and by far the best of the front 6. Faded in the second half but generally he ran the show from the centre. Downing 6- looked short of match fitness but looks a class player at times. Heskey 7- his link up play was very effective, particularly in the first half when people could be arsed to work for him. His finishing left a bit to be desired. Gabby 5.5- seemed to lack confidence, but was full of energy and he wasn't helped by a referee who seemed to miss Zayette and Gardner tugging his shirt whenever he received the ball. Carew- take the pens please Subs 8- think you have to give them credit for their patience and not starting a riot considering half the side looked dead on their feet, some having played 270 mins this week. Feel for NRC who didn't deserve to be dropped in the first place and also Delph. Sidwell however had his say by restarting the play quickly to catch Duke out for the second goal, the best thing he's done in a while. Overall a solid if unspectacular win against a side who are in my view doomed if Bullard is out for any length of time. I think we have the basis of a top 4 side here with the roles that Downing, Young and Milner are playing, but I would like to see NRC installed with Petrov to command the midfield a bit more, in a 4 3 3, to ensure that happens. Milner playing centrally though looks a prospect, and the defence cannot be faulted.

The problem with NRC as a destroyer is that Petrov wins the ball a lot more nowadays. Also swapping a striker for a defensive mid is not particularly forward thinking in my opinion. Not sure, I haven't noticed that. As far as I'm concerned NRC wins the ball better than Stan, and Stan keeps it better than NRC. So NRC can win it and give it to Stan. And with Young, Downing and Milner on the field there is more creative and positive force in the team as opposed to MONs system of two static cms, two wingers who have no support and end up defending all the time, and two exposed strikers who end up running around like headless chickens.