kiltorken

4 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

 You miss the point entirely. It was a moment in time you chose to make a point. It is no more or less valid than a moment in time when were are 4 points off the playoff places for example.

I didn't miss my own point actually, objectives when Bruce took the job when we were just above the relegation zone on the back of 50 games with 4 wins was surely to steady the ship and try and get a respectable league position, getting the playoffs at that point would have been a very unexpected bonus in most people's eyes and that is the reason why it's "more valid",  he met the objective of steadying the ship, it's not his fault people got overly hopeful after one decent string of results before Christmas and decided playoffs were the new minimum. 

It's a good job we didn't get Chris Coleman in. 

30 minutes ago, terrytini said:

1 hour ago, kiltorken said:

 

Whether people can cope isn’t the point, and it’s nothing to do with different opinions. “It’s beyond the realms of rational thought” is not an opinion of the issue, it’s a comment about people who have a different view to you. It’s just another way ofvsaying “ anyone who thinks that is irrational”, which in turn is a way of attacking people’s mental state. If I was to say “ your views are expressed as poorly as those of a pre school infant” I can’t say that’s an opinion, it’s an insult ( whether to you or prevschool children is up to the reader to decide).

Anyway.

I’ve not cherry picked anything. I’ve just said where we were at halfway, as opposed to you saying where we were after 11 games and where we were the season before. I stated clearly that people may or may not think there were mitigating factors, so I’m not sure why you then wrote as if I’d not said that. 

Again, “ it’s naive” ......there you go again. How about if I say it’s naive to think it can’t be done ? Ner ner ner ner ner.

It isn’t naive. It’s just a different view to yours. At the time Bruce, the Club, and every Villa fan I knew, thought we had a good chance. All naive ? 

You don’t think Bruce’s first season was a failure, because getting promoted wasn’t on the table. Many others agree with you. But many others think Bruce messed up after Christmas in selection, tactics, style, approach, and so on.

For my part I think he did inherit quite a mess ( although I don’t recall any of those who say that now applying it to RDM), and I think he’s done a decent job, but I also think he contributed significantly to our poor results in the second part of the season with over caution ( Ipswich at Home a classic). Whether or not he “ failed” as such, he certainly, as a matter of fact, failed to capitalise on the position we were at at Christmas. 

The fact that you happen to think the circumstances meant he did ok does not mean you are either “ right”, nor that I need a straight jacket.

You seem like a genuinly nice person, I apologise for insinuating that you shoud be put in a straight-jacket.

I hope we can laugh about all of this in years to come.

6 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

yet that is exactly what you did, conveniently ignoring the investment available and the talent at his disposal....... Yet for some reason your cherry-picked moment in the season is somehow more valid.

I didnt cherry-pick a moment, I picket the moment he started the job, there is a considerable difference.

33 minutes ago, terrytini said:

The trouble is, when you boldly declare “ it’s beyond the realms of rational thought” you are actually insulting other people’s intelligence. 

I'm sure other people are adults and can cope with some criticism of opinions.

46 minutes ago, terrytini said:

After 23 games in Bruce’s first season, at the halfway stage, we had 34 Points, which was 6 Points, and 4 places, off a Play Off place. Fulham had 2 more Points than us and finished in a Play Off place. (We spent pretty big money in the window that followed as well, by the way).

It's easy to cherry pick one particular moment during that season where we sort of close to the last playoff spot after a particularly good run (ignoring the 4 or five teams between us and 6th at the time, who could also accumulate points in the second half of the season), the club had a losing mentality drilled into it for the previous 5 seasons before that, if not irrational then it is extremely naive to think that same team could have completely u-turned and gone on the steamroll the league and not only that but that it was a failure not to do so. 

25 minutes ago, sne said:

We were 7 points off play off spot with 27 or so games to play in December.

The we bought in a whole new midfield and started playing Hogan as a target man and it all collapsed.

It was very much doable in the first season, partly down to the initial improvements after Bruce stepped in. Then we bottled it.

Second season we should have finished top 2, no if's or but's.

We also failed to build a team we can use going forward due to the short term build last season. another failure.

To think people wanted this to happen to be right on a fan forum? Yeah, just no.

I think its beyond the realms or rational thought to say that Bruce failed by not getting us promoted in his first season.

Had he got us promoted that year he would have surely been nominated for world manager of the year with a team that was 2 points above the relegation zone and. had managed 4 league wins in the preceding 50 league matches.

While there is validity to the arguement that he failed in his second season, you completely overlook the many improvements under him since he took the job.

I asked the ticket office about this earlier in the week, you need to call the Villa ticket office today and tell them it hasnt arrived. Theyll print you a new one and physically bring it down to Wembley on Saturday for collection.

creedence clearwater revival - fortunate son

we were robbed by that clearing in the woods dowd after 4 mins,come on last man defending the goal and he didnt even get a yellow card fookin disgrace :evil:

vidic should have walked, but he didnt.. and we lost... fa cup final

look, im not a brummie, well not geographically speaking, although i am at heart, \(both parents,from birmingham).. but how can you rationalize mon being sacked... where were we 5 years ago

I meant the ref....

Edited again. Calm it - NV

Edited by NV - the same goes for you. Let's calm things down a bit or there will be a few people getting the night off.

Cheers!

why did my picture get quoted for this, I haven't said anything about Martin ;(

sorry drunken hands

What narked me was that there was no urgency, so predictable, we kept giving the ball away, too many mistakes does not make a top side.

Fine you can blame the ref for all sorts of things, I personally think the clearing in the woods should be sacked, but we should have had more in the tank than to sit back on 1-1 and hope for the best...

look, im not a brummie, well not geographically speaking, although i am at heart, \(both parents,from birmingham).. but how can you rationalize mon being sacked... where were we 5 years ago

**** right off, mon is only getting started, we have advanced every year, mon is the best thing that has happened to villa,. fact. clearly people like you dont remember the bad days

Only getting started? He's been here for coming on 4 years!

yeah, were well in the race for champos, and fa cup still on the cards.. im notsaying hes invincible but for what hes done for us so far i think its crazy to be condeming him at this stage

@ rico

**** right off, mon is only getting started, we have advanced every year, mon is the best thing that has happened to villa,. fact. clearly people like you dont remember the bad days

dowd was horrendous but at the end of the day we were beaten well. could have lost by more, keep the heads up and aim for champions league and fa cup final!!! up the villa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!