TRO

....Technical ability, no comparison.... despite jimmy's impressive displays.

Gerrard is much stronger on the ball and has far more awareness of whats going on around him.

Gerrard has greater ability to change a game, however jimmy is young and who knows what he can acheive.

I think Platt was a better player too....slightly different but more effective.

I have mixed feelings on jimmy's energy, sometimes he covers too many area's and we lose our shape..... particularly when we havn't got the ball.

not trying to be picky, but not as convinced as some.

some Claret and Blue specs in this thread, while Milner is good, Gerard is world class and often compared with the top midfielders in the world.

ditto

...At 0-2 thought we were in big trouble.... but the character was very impressive.

as for embarrasment big sam's comments was the only thing I was embarrased about.

I thought the game posed more questions than answers.

wasn't sure why Milner spent most of his time on the flanks when I thought he was supposed be centre midfield.

Have to say, I'm shocked so many people thought Dowining had a good game! I admit he looked eager to cut in and make things happen, and he knocked a couple of half-decent crosses over, but any good that he did was completely ruined by the number of times he gave the ball away so cheaply.

Sitting in the lower Holte, it seemed to me that he made at least 5 misplaced passes, but maybe I need to watch the game back on TV.

As for Petrov, I can see why people often think he's played well. He's comfortable on the ball, does a bit of tidying up in front of the defence and draws plenty of fouls to relieve the pressure. However, as someone who has played centre mid for years, I know it's much easier to look good on the ball when you spend most the game hanging back and reserving energy, waiting for the ball to come to you.

you are not on your own, but then I don't favour 3 wingers in the side.

a goal for today, would have given credit to what was a piss poor performance.

There were so many errors all over the park, that a goal would have negated the clear deficiencies of our play.

I don't think MON signed Henrik Larsson, I might be wrong though TRO.

He definitely didn't.

Wim Jansen did, i reckon..

you reckon correctly, my mistake

thanks for that.

but Henrik larsen did join us at one stage

I don't think MON signed Henrik Larsson, I might be wrong though TRO.

He definitely didn't.

Wim Jansen did, i reckon..

....you got me thinking now, you could be right.

someone will put us right soon.

I don't think MON signed Henrik Larsson, I might be wrong though TRO.

I also think we can attract a top striker if we stump up the money and the wages.

Pomp, he did'nt DICK ADVOCAAT did

but Martin Kinda developed his game there, just making the point of top quality and his association with it.

This is AVFC. The mighty AVFC. One of a handful clubs in the world who have won the European Cup. The club which started the whole league structure and founded the football league. Football today is only the way it is because of AVFC. The poll should be a rehtorical poll because of course we have the money, and of course we could attract a top class striker.

The question should really be will MON ever go out and put his reputation on the line and buy the big name player that AVFC is crying out for? Now I think MON is the best thing that has happened to us in my life time however, his biggest failing in my opinion is to get a striker in who will keep Gabby out of the team. I'm not the biggest fan of Gabby, but he has his uses. His use however, I do not believe is starting and finishing every single game. He would be an amazing super-sub. Bought on when defences are tired and rip them to shreds. He's not clinical enough to be playing every single game with the expectation of doing to Villa what Torres does to Liverpool. It will never happen, and we need a man that can. Until we get that striker we will continue to be the nearly team.

you make some poignant points, my biggest worry or concern with our forwards is footballing Nous

I most emphatically agree with your remarks towards attracting the talent.

not a doubt in my mind that Aston Villa football club within reason could attract top talent

some talent is slightly flawed, some talent is ageing, some have fallen out with their managers and are getable for non-exoribitant prices.

these players are also dreams on the training ground for all the kids to learn from.

go on Martin, get us a Henrik Larsson

I think our strikers are ok.... each one has limitations, fortunately for different reasons.... but on their day, they are exciting, gabby at Arsenal, John Carew against Stoke( i think)

I am absolutely convinced the players we buy are Martins Choices, not Randy's and if Martin Wanted a technically gifted player, Randy would fund it for him.

Can we attract a technically gifted Player, like

Paul Merson

Benito Carbone

Luc Nilis

Dwight Yorke

Juan Pablo angel

Nobby Solano

David Ginola

Didier Six

Morley

some others I may have failed to mention

Previous Managers with far less funds, and far less charisma than Martin O'Neill have attracted players with Tech Ability( with modest funds) .... so no we have what we have by design, not the fact we can't attract them.

He may well have a plan do this next, we'll have to wait and see.

but don't blame it on money or attraction.

PS It would be interesting for the statisticians amongst us if we could tell where we were in the league when we signed some of the above magicians.

I seem to remember we were still in Birmingham too.lol

Friedel should just play league matches IMO

Guzan is good enough to start for us in the Premier League, so I think it's fair to him that he plays in all cup matches, and so he can gain experience.

Friedel in the league to keep his run going.

Why was Delph subbed early?

talking to Tom Ross on BRMB, Martin O'Neill said Delph was tiring, but said he was pleased with him as he was unwell, but wanted to play.

sounds like he was carrying a bit of lurgy to me.

Be tempted to go 4-5-1 in this one.

Don't think Heskey is 100% and just don't like Carew in the team at the moment, rather he be an impact sub if we need a goal.

Perhaps...

Usual back 4.

------Petrov------

---Coker--Delph-

Milner--------Downing

--------Gabby---------

and let's really get stuck into them, confidence isn't high, let's match them in the middle and get stuck into them early, don't let them settle.

This for me. The Plop games in the second half of last season and earlier this season and the Arsenal game shows that we are not good enough to play Sky 4 teams that play 4-3-3 with a 4-4-2 and that we need to match up to their formation to give ourselves a chance. Whilst this Plop team, particularly without Mascherano, are nowhere near as slick as the Arsenal CM they would overrun a Petrov + 1.

The only change I might make is to drop Stan, who IMO had a very poor game against Arsenal and looked tired (but MON will never do this), and bring in Albrighton to keep Jimmy in the middle.

JC as the impact sub and big Emile to get a rest before the Blackburn FA Cup game.

Please God a 2-0 victory!

In my view the reason stan had a poor game is because, young, milner & downing were not winning anything....some may say its not their game , but then that leaves it up to stan on his own to protect the back 4..... too much.

3 wingers in the team ...when we havn't got the ball leaves us vulnerable.

....And based on our second half showing today, a wise stance.

we can win this as easily as we can lose it.

we have the capability, if the match winning players turn up.... big game for gabby IMO.

the botome line of all this is despite the great results lately we are just as capable of going on a duff run......and if you listen carefully to Martin O'Neill I don't think he would disagree.

I think despite us having a resolute team, endeavour and team spirit will only take you so far.

to date we don't have individuals with the talent of Dwight yorke, Gary shaw, Brian Little or Gordon cowans.... we don't have prolific scorers like Andy Gray or David Platt.

we may even have a better team than those played in, but we don't have their ability to do it so consistently.

I feel Martin has done really well so far, as for where he goes from here I don't know, because he gives little indication as to whether the accusation in some quarters that he is in a time warp or lives in the 80's is fair.

He says very little as to what he thinks about the future development so you wouldn't know whether he is happy with us or wants to press on and make us even better.

i don't know what to think, other than we need some players who can change a game regularly to make the top flight

two points behind united at christmas is a superb achievement.!

I think this more or less sums up what I'm saying

No it isnt. no it isnt a superb achievement. its meaningless in terms of 'achievements'. Its December. If we are two points away from united in may, thats a superb achievement.

We havent done anything yet, thats what I'm saying, and there is a long way to go and our opponents are bloody good and bloody experienced. this is the best league in the world. To finish sixth in this League considering the opposition this season would be a really good achievement

To finish fourth? Wow, I think you underestimate greatly what is required. the team that finishes fourth in this League will be one of the best teams in Europe, historically you would say capable of launching a serious bid for the Champions League title next season. Look at our squad, and ask yourself that question, are we that good?

I think you are wasting your time here, with all due respect.You are pissing on peoples chips and they are not having it....all the sense in the world and by jove you are talking some ....is immaterial.

You have clearly stated ( only short of the stamp of runnymede) that you are happy with the way things have panned out.... but no they have skipped that bit to wallow in your doubt, which in my view is justified, despite some great results.

I fancy there'll be a battle for fourth that goes all the way to the line, and I fancy we'll be in the thick of it.

I've been surprised this season with how easily I've been drawn in and tempted by belief. I started the season convinced we'd be in a battle for the last UEFA spot and not overly confident we'd get it.

Liverpool have changed that.

New hope from the new world because between them the American board and the comical Spanish manager of Liverpool football club have made a rare old mess of things and Liverpool are now on the edge of the precipice. Skint, not performing well and falling apart at the seams, they are as little as a couple of defeats away from bowing out of the race for fourth early and that single fact has for me changed the face of English football and lit this season up.

It's not just me and it's not just us, the collapse of Liverpool will be causing excitement amongst that most maligned of groups; Spurs fans and also amongst the fans of Manchester City. All three of us know we're in this battle and we all know we can win it, I think we would all say it's possible for the other two to win it; I'm not sure if Liverpool believe at the moment.

City too though have disappointed, I thought they would "click" a little better than they have, that they'd have off days but for the most part sparkle. They haven't, they've lacked any kind of sheen or lustre and still look for the most part a pretty ordinary side for 80 minutes of any match. They'll get it right in the end, but the sun is shining and I don't see any reason why we shouldn't make hay.

It's not our improvement that's given me some hope of success this season, or at least it's not just our improvement, it's the failure of others.

I think we've got grit, some really good experience and more quality than others give us credit for. We don't play with the style of Arsenal, or indeed Spurs, but we have a certain something.

I also think we have better depth than some of the teams around us and I'd fancy our second team against the second teams of Spurs or Liverpool.

I don't make us favourites and I've a horrible feeling Spurs might snatch it, but we're not the outsiders and we're a lot nearer than I thought we'd be.

You're spot on PB about pressure being the telling factor; we're largely untested in the hot bit of the season, but I don't necessarily think that means we'll crumble. It doesn't necessarily mean we'll stand tall either, but I don't think we'll know until we get there...and I think we'll get there.

In ten games time we'll be a lot more sure I guess, but I see no reason not to stick the old dream out on the block again and risk the heartbreak.

This could be our year.

(As I seem to remember saying just about every year.)

as much as I like Carew and Agbonlahor.... I think there is a more consistent stream of goals from Crouch and Defoe.

When I say annoying I mean to say that he annoys me, and he does. He irritates me, grates at me, in perhaps much the same way that an ex girlfriend might. The things that used to seem cute and charming now just get on my nerves. I'm not alone either, many people I speak to feel the same. But this isnt about O'Neill, who I think is actually doing a pretty decent job all things considered, and who, being fair, has also said that he fully expects as I do that the top four come May to be more or less the usual suspects.

Guys, if you think that me saying Villa are a solid top six side but no more is overly gloomy then I suggest you pull yourselves up sharp. We are a really decent team, with decent players. Milner I think will be a superstar in time. And yes we are on a great run, Downing has made quite a difference and I'm really enjoying it, really revelling in being able to take the mick out of scousers and gobby man City fans - while I can. But top four? Champions League? Come on, be serious.

Look. For most of the campaign to date we have been bloody dull, as boring as Leicester were under O'neill for those old enough to remember how dire they were to watch (although I'll concede they were effective, especially when they played us!). How many games have we had more than 50% possession? more shots than the opposition? I accept that these things dont win points, goals for and against do, but ultimately the fourth best (or better) team in the land is going to be better than that, better than a team who cant hold possession even against mediocre opposition like Stoke. I'm sorry if you dont like me pointing that out.

I admire our grit, our determination, our effort. These are all fine and necessary qualities in a football team, but this isnt 1980 any more, it isnt enough, not by far. The top teams have genuine world class quality, and they have it in depth, and they have grit, determination and effort, and experience. We dont have that quality, sorry. I appreciate thats not going to be popular at this time, but its simply true. After 38 games the League table doesnt lie, and Villa in the top four is just that, a lie, we simply arent that good, if we were we would be able to dominate the odd game of football or at least look like the better of the two teams on show.

Just imo naturally.

PB for what my opinion is worth on here, I agree with you on many points. I also agree with many things blandy says, so I guess I'm somewhere in between.

We have made good strides and the development is now noticeable with the defence much more dogged, but I too still have my doubts about our ability to score when we need one. I do feel there is almost an obsession on here of speculating where we will finish, when we are still " work in progress".... I havn't a clue where we will finish,because there are too many imponderables.

I do think we need an out and out ball player who can change a game.... i.e Merson,Di Canio, that type.

I don't think we are far away now, but not there yet.

.....However, there is plenty to be pleased about.

He can achieve everything right here. We don't have a ceiling, unless you would regard the spending that Chelsea & Citeh do. But I don't think that scale of spending appeals to the tactician/coach in O'Neill. I think he's perfectly happy with the spending power we have.

I agree with all of that.

I have had my moments of being critical of him and on reflection perhaps a little unfair....but I do feel tactically he is improving and seems a bit quicker in changing things when they are appearing to not be working.

I don't want to talk too soon... but he does seem to have his mojo back.

I see a lot of resemblance to things that were happening when Ron Saunders was in charge.

lets keep our fingers crossed we can all see it through.

71, 75, 77, 94 & 96 League Cups, 1982 European Cup, 2000, FA Cup - hopefully 2010 League Cup and FA Cup double

same for me. Plus the European Super Cup 1982 (or was it 83)

Yes I'm an old git.

But not as old as me !!!!

...count me in on all of those.

I have this distinct impression our opinions are falling on deaf ears on here.... Oh Dear

Are you that arrogant that you think we should all be falling over ourselves to come and comment on what you think? Or that the manager should care?

If the manager read our posts ( Barry boots,Risso,Sting etc )there is every chance that we would now be challenging the top four with comfort.

ok John.....Just joking.

3 haters out of 7! Jeez Risso, sting and Fran are quick off the mark.

As a point of record 'CrackpotForeigner' i don't hate O'Neill. Indeed i find him entertaining with his funny manerisms before and after match interviews. I have however questioned many of his signings, which some have worked and others, well, have disappointingly failed miserably. You can probably say that of most managers, even the great Fergie and Wenger!

I do however dislike the way O'Neill sets out our team to play and in my humble opinion, he doesn't make the best of who he has signed for one reason or another. When he finds a winning formular, he changes the team the following week and quite evidently has his 'favourites,' born out with his treatment of Reo-Coker!

I also believe that with a more progressive thinking manager, we would have a better squad of players with more guile and technical ability with the amount of money O'Neill has been furnished with and just maybe, we might have been better in Cup and European matches as a consequence? Gained more success maybe?

Nevertheless, it is more than fair to say that we have improved since O'Neill has become our manager, but then again, that would be the very least we would expect with the money spent!

I just feel that O'Neill's system of play belongs more to the coaching book of the 1980-90s rather than being reflective of today's style of football. Thats why i believe O'Neill has taken us as far as he can and we do need a new manager who will instill a different type of system of play into our squad. I would like to see us playing a more diamond formation with the quality players to play that way. This would leave us less open through the middle and i dont think our wingers are good enough to carry a consistant threat, just as i don't think our central midfield partnership are good enough at the moment to allow us to play two out and out wingers!

Only my humble opinion of course and as always, there will be many who will disagree with me. I just want the best for our club and although we are indeed in very safe hands with O'Neill, i think we could at, the very least, see more entertaining football coming from our team, with the same, or indeed, even more success!

for what its worth on here, i can empathise with much of what you write.I too feel similar with your explanation of the Midfield & wingers. It seems to me the cm's are the scapegoats and the wide players get away with murder.

I am not an advocate of removing O'Neill, but I am living in hope he will change his view.

Many thanks for your considered reply 'Tro.'

I don't disagree with much of what you said. I do, however, think he has built a decent squad but, like you, don't think he uses it to its maximum capability. I am not sure your diamond suggestion would work with our players BUT it could be worth a try. Anything has to be better than sticking with the same front 6 and same formation that we have for the last 5 or 6 away games.

I can take losing/drawing with poor teams if I thought MON was trying to turn it around and find a solution to our poor performances. He didn't for the last 15 games of last season and he hasn't done for our away games this season. It feels like groundhog day to me!

I have this distinct impression our opinions are falling on deaf ears on here.... Oh Dear.

Perhaps we may get some north west intervention, telling us where we are going wrong.....oooppps