Trinity-Tom

Excellent keeper and I would be pleased to sign him. As for Bent, well he will score goals and would be an excellent signing.

Even discounting the penalties, Johnson and Bents goal scoring records are much better than Angels. (In the last 2 to 3 seasons that is!)

it was the perfect opportunity for Angel haters to say "I told you so".

If you say so. Not sure who all these Angel haters are though. Just because people don't hold him in the same regard as other people do does not mean they hate him.

As for the Crouch analogy well I see your point and accept it to a degree but the fact is he didn't make it at Villa and despite what might have been he cannot be seen as a success. Similar to Angel in many respects therefore for me although I don't hate him (Angel), in fact I like him, I just don't think he is as good or was as good as many others do/did!

It's up to everyone to decide on their own. You can't count stats in to that.

Agree on the first point but the issue over stats is the main factor why I cannot class him as anything close to a hero. My favourite Villa players are Ian Taylor and Paul McGrath who both put in consistently good performances. That is the main criteria for me. That's not to say other things won't be considered and as an example of this, due to the manner of his departure, Dwight Yorke is not a favourite or hero of mine. I don't blame him for leaving but I dislike the way he stopped putting the effort in on the pitch when he was about to leave.

Muntari is clearly the goalscoring midfielder we need. 1 goal in 22 appearances this year, 3 in 29 last year. A whopping 2 in 33 the season before that.

With that kind of goalscoring force, he must rival the greats such as Gavin McCann.

That made me laugh out loud!

"The Great Gavin McCann"! Brilliant!

someone like Yaya Toure or Sulley Muntari

Doubt you've ever seen them play.

You can't just throw out names you've seen on FM or seen on youtube.

And you know me i assume?. :roll:

Out of interest, I have never seen either of those 2 players (as far as I know anyway) so what is it about them which make them the class we need?

I think some people need to be able to distinguish fact and opinion. I think we need better than Bullard, it doesn't mean it is true. He could well be a very good player but what makes me think we need better is that I haven't seen much of him and also that following a long term injury, we cannot be certain how it has affected his game.

Exactly. Gareth Barry is a creative player.

Say it enough and it may come true

Let's not ruin this thread by arguing over something irrelevant. For the most part, this thread is quite a good one.

Do his stats support the fact that he has been a dreadful, bad, mediocre, good or excellent striker for us over the years?

That is the key factor for me for a striker, not the only one but a highly significant one.

Anyone with two eyes in the front of their head can see that Barry is a supremely creative player

You can say he is solid. He is a good footballer. Can cover many positions. But creative?

Both statistics and people will tell you otherwise.

Stats may support this, I don't think many people will but this is irrelevant to the current debate.

Not good considering we were playing to his strengths.

We did?

Well we played the same style of football as the season before where he scored 16 in the league, we just weren't as good. In my opinion that was largely due to JPA's goals drying up. So in my opinion we did. The team was moulded around him, perhaps that was the problem, perhaps not!

Edit - I am aware that was when he had his serious knee injury but are you suggesting that I ignore his performances after this and imagine what might have been had he not been injured?

It is clear that injuries resulted in his decline but whatever the reason, he has only sporadically hit the form which made many adore him! Therefore, he is far from a hero in my opinion.

Well he played very well with Solano even with our crippled central midfield

He didn't actually. In the season where Angel scored 23 in all competitions, Solano played around 6 games after signing in January. The season after Solano was our top scorer with 8. Angel scored 7 in 35 games. Not good considering we were playing to his strengths.

Then Henry wouldnt have been a hero for you Tom, as not even him could have achieved good statistics with the squad and tactics we have played the last few years.

Well, I think Henry would have as he is a class apart.

However, what I will say is that over the past 3 years or so, very few players have come out of it with real credit so JPA isn't alone there. Had we had better players and played to JPA's strengths, he may have done better but this is just a supposition and not a reason for me to believe he is a hero. Equally, the same could be said of Phillips, Baros, Allback etc... 3 players who I will easily forget.

At the end of the day, I have seen very little in the last 3 or so years to believe that JPA is the player many people on this site believe him to be. That is down to injury but whatever the reason, his stats and performances lead me to conclude that he is far from a hero.

I'm sorry but if 'hero' to you translates solely into statistics then you really don't understand what the term hero means. To understand it you must appreciate the atmosphere around the place when he came here. The incessant protests and what the fans were craving. He was 'our' signing because of the '£' sign protest. He symbolised us and Gregory managing to get Ellis to open his wallet. He came in as a sort of saviour. A high profile player that we'd beaten top clubs in Europe to sign from South America.

That is not a hero to me though Brian. To be a footballing hero, the statistics are the most important thing in my opinion. As I have said, he is a good role model for kids and young pro's but to be a hero he must have achieved something above what he has done. I can accept that injuries may have prevented him from doing this but at the end of the day, whatever the reason, he hasn't achieved it. I cannot regard him as a hero for what might have been.

At times he was brilliant. That was far from the norm though.

Oh - but Bullard is better than McCann.

There are better players out there than Bullard. I wouldn't be surprised if Sissoko was available should Mascherano sign for Liverpool permanently as he is described by most of their fans as a "polished" version of Sissoko and is seemingly Benitez's preferred choice.

but he has not done the bizz on a regular basis so he is a flop.

Do tell me what Villa player the last 10 years which has done the biz on a regular basis?

Merson? Taylor? We have had a lot of flops havent we.

This is where the problem lies. The fact you state is true but that is not a justification either for or against whether JPA is a flop or not. JPA cost £9.5 million and is therefore a bigger "flop" in many peoples eyes than many other players. For the money paid, I would suggest Stone, Collymore, Balaban to name 3 to be much bigger "flops" than JPA (they are incomparable) but that players such as Merson, Dublin, Mellberg to name 3 are not "flops" as they performed consistently and in my opinion justified the price tag.

Thinking about it, I would describe JPA as a role model for young Pro's and fans to look up to due to his attitude and commitment but that is something completely different to a hero in my eyes.

we need a third option

neither

good pro, average premier league footballer

That's it in a nutshell really. Two good seasons out of 6 does not make him a hero for me. Sure, it can be argued that injuries and managerial issues limited his impact at the club and that had we had better players at the club then he would have performed much better but at the end of the day he is no Ian Taylor, no Paul McGrath, no David Platt, no Sid Cowans, no Paul Merson.

Overall, performance wise, I would argue that Solano made almost as big an impact and it is clear that Yorke was a much better striker but neither of these are heroes in my eyes and I bet that goes for most others. Sure Angel didn't leave under a cloud like these two and I would be surprised if he did but that doesn't change my opinion on him.

At £9.5 million, I would have expected more in the 6 years he has been here. The price isn't his fault but it must ultimately be a consideration after 6 years at Villa as to whether or not he was a flop.

He may be a nice guy who put in some excellent performances but he is up there with the likes of Carbone, Hitzlsperger etc... Some fond memories but unlikely to be sorely missed.

Paul McGrath, Ian Taylor, Gordan Cowans to name but three are examples of Villa heroes for me. Angel falls way short of these. Dwight Yorke is the best striker we have had for 15 years and I wouldn't regard him as a hero either.

Angel was an excellent player for 2 seasons but due to managerial changes and injuries his career stalled and he has never reached the highs of 3/4 seasons ago. He has always remained professional and conducted himself with dignity but he isn't someone I would afford hero status,not even close.

They may be dedicated to such a pursuit but they are unlikely to maintain a list with the information you desire. Most of these sites are usually useless and contain no reliable information. I'd imagine that at some stage some site may run a story about possible transfer targets on a club by club basis but I have never come across something close to what you are after.

I need to find a website that lists off who's either eligible for transfer or likely to be transferred. That way I'll have some way of knowing which names to look at and picking out ones I like.

I see. Unfortunately, to my knowledge, such a site does not exist.

Question. Where's a place I can find out who exactly is on the block? You know, just so these names can start meaning something to me and I don't just go "...Yay, I think?" every time I hear about a signing.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Better on all fronts.

I agree with Rocafella. Doyle was playing well until he got injured but he needs to prove himself for more than just this season for us to buy him. Also, there is no way he would sign for us as a reserve player.

If we sign a striker, we need a proven one.