Clarry

Before the Battle of Rorke's Drift did the British Army have to go to Ante-Natal classes?

tbh I've never seen any evidence of it

Broken Britain just seems to be a convenient catchphrase to excuse bad parenting in a lot of cases

Crime figures don't tell a true story as the majority of crime no longer gets reported but even so the streets around me are safe and there aren't gangs of hoodies making us all quake in fear .. indeed taking the snow example it was the teenage kids that tended to help people stuck in the snow , the older generation just ignored folk and walked \ drove on

There is a lot to blame this labour government for but this isn't one of them and the next government won't have some magic fairy dust that will suddenly change the way society behaves .. anyone who thinks 24 hour drinking is to blame is a fool and they first PM that tries to revoke that law will get me camping outside number 10 waving a banner

Gordon's plan to increase education to 18 was a good idea imo , but i'm well aware of the argument about what to do with those who clearly have no desire to stay on ..

Bloody Norah!

Make that a third agreeing with him.

The voice of reason...

I also recommend I love you man. It's brilliant, 'slappin the bass'.

The guy who plays the best friend to Paul Rudd in this film is also in Forgetting Sarah Marshall, while this film isnt on a par with i love you man, its also a decent film and of course the stunning mila kunis certainly helps a bit.

He's also in the TV series How I Met Your Mother...it's like Friends but better scripted, acted, slightly surreal situations and more a comedy than a rom-com.

1) Let The Right One In

2) Star Trek

3) The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (after I'd re-subtitled it from the bodge job) Looking forward to a proper-English translated release in January 2010.

Moon and Telstar have just made the list (in no particular order).

I'm slightly surprised by the popularity of Star Trek among those too young to remember the original series.

I loved it, but nostalgia played a VERY big part in that.

I think that was the same for me. I've included it because I was pleasantly surprised they didn't screw it all up.

At the cinema I saw it in there was a cheer when they played the old TV theme at the end.

It's Moon for me tonight.

1) Let The Right One In

2) Star Trek

3) The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (after I'd re-subtitled it from the bodge job) Looking forward to a proper-English translated release in Hanuary 2010.

The only thing I've read which makes my skin crawl is the offer of immunity from prosecution being in the gift of the inquiry if they think it is required to get full and frank evidence.

I think this stops things getting messy.

If Bush and Blair are prosecuted then what about the people supplying them with the information? What about the MPs voting in favour of invading Iraq? The leaders of the Armed Forces? Previous trials have shown that ignorance or "following orders" is no defence.

It's a bit like South Africa's trials after the end of Apartheid; get the ugly truth out in exchange for clemency.

Do they have the draw on a Saturday so that Sky can give a list of the matches they want?

A lot of people confuse Psychology with Psychiatry. The latter probably has more rubbish in it.

I'm getting deja vu from the Michael Jackson thread.

I was going to say say say the same.

Fixed.

Ah, the Macca link!

I'm getting deja vu from the Michael Jackson thread.

I was going to say the same.

or you just leave him locked up

But then he would have appealed.

Can an appeal go ahead if the defendant is dead?

Well - there you have it, the guy is released, despite killing over 100 people.

Nicely done, yoghurt crew.

The yoghurt crew didn't release him.

By waiving his appeal to his conviction, the government have "rewarded" him with release on compassionate grounds. And avoided possible embarrassing repercussions for the UK and US coming out in the appeal.

I completely disagree. It is not "inevitable" that someone else gets "negative" discrim against them.

Leaving aside colour or any other minority aspect, the simplest example I can think of is say you have 2 people. 1 lives in a puddle and one lives in shed - if you positively discriminate to give the person in the puddle shelter, that does not mean that the person in the shed is being treated unequally, just that the person(s) with the greatest need are dealt with first.

Bringing it back to reality, if you help people who are more disadvantaged, whether by disability, circumstance or racial issues, then you are putting a higher need before a lower need.

And people from some sections of society are still badly treated, so to help that section be not so badly treated is a good thing.

Yes I know all that's a massive simplification, and there are counter arguments that can be made, but the experience in real life is that things like sexism and racism and disability-ism are less prevalent in society than they were partly as a result of equality laws. Over time it works, despite it's imperfections and the cases it throws up where some people do lose out through apparent favouritism of the kind it's supposed to eliminate, in reverse. The overall effect is for the good.

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Thanks for the feedback Pete but for once I fundamentally disagree with you. I'm sure this legislation has been introduced with the best of intentions but it has, imo, created one problem while solving another. The solution is simple, no discrimination against anyone based on gender, race, socio-economic background, disability (where practical), age etc, ever. That would be a true meritocracy. This should be the law imo, which as you point out is imperfect. The trouble for me is that it is so by design.

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I hope I've quoted the above properly....

I'd like to say that both Blandy and Awol have very valid and well argued points here.

I'm more to the Blandy side, because there is still not a "level playing field". But yes, as Awol says, a true meritocracy would be the perfect way, but then I refer you into a circular argument about the "level playing field"...

[What I'm trying to do Clarry is look past the rhetoric.

If the BNP's actual immigration policy (for which they are slaughtered) is not that far removed - or at least similar in signifcant elements - from Labour's, then it is worthy of comment in the context of the left - right discussion that's going on.

All i'm trying to do is approach the subject from a different view point because a zillion posts saying "the BNP are racist bastards" is all great but doesn't really encourage discussion.

The context of left - right is important as you say, and interesting. Is being left or right a total package, or is it originally a party's economic stance?

It is a very grey area.

But here is some Griffin, especially interesting is the "salable words":

"Without the White race nothing matters [other right-wing parties] believe that the answer to the race question is integration and a futile attempt to create "Black Britons", while we affirm that NON-WHITES HAVE NO PLACE HERE AT ALL AND WILL NOT REST UNTIL EVERY LAST ONE HAS LEFT OUR LAND." - Nick Griffin

"There's a difference between selling out your ideas and selling your ideas. And the British National Party isn't about selling out it's ideas, which are your ideas, but we are determined now to sell them. And that means basically to use these salable words.

As I say, 'freedom', 'security', 'identity', 'democracy', nobody can criticise them, nobody can come at you and attack you on those ideas: they are salable. Perhaps one day, once by being rather more subtle, we got ourselves into a position where we control the British broadcasting media, then perhaps one day the British people might change their minds and say, 'Yes, every last one must go'. Perhaps they will one day, but if you offer that as your soul mate to start with, you're going to get absolutely nowhere. So, INSTEAD OF TALKING ABOUT RACIAL PURITY WE TALK ABOUT IDENTITY." - Nick Griffin addressing the Ku Klux Klan

"Voluntary repatriation. Isn't that EASIER TO SELL than compulsory repatriation for all?" - Nick Griffin

2) Immigration. The BNP propose financial assistance for immigrants who wish to return to their homeland and deportation of illegal immigrants, according to their manifesto.

Labour already have a very similar policy in existence now and has done for a number of years. Home Office - Voluntary Assisted Return scheme Shame it took an FOI request to get them to admit it.

A) The BNP are racist at their core. It doesn't really matter what is or isn't in their manifesto.

I remember this coming in and the uproar in the usual parts of the press about asylum seekers and immigrants getting even more money from tax-payers. Not one voice said it was racist. I can't really see it as racist as long as it is a choice. Look at the list, there are peoples from all over. And I do notice there seems to be a lot returning to countries post-conflict (although the countries are still screwed up).

C) Your FOI comment insinuates that this was being hidden. FOI requests are commonplace for data. It just ensures it is received quicker.

I do find it amusing that you are trying to equate Labour with being a racist party though.

it's probably more a perception thing .. when you hear of awards such as" Black Pupils Achievement Programme" being introduced into schools doesn't it by it's very nature provoke conflict ? ... if there is a black pupils award shouldn't there by definition be a white pupils award ....

Good point.

When my place first did Black Achievement awards it was in response to a research project and a thank you to the pupils and parents involved. It was such a success that it is now for all pupils. Which creates another problem. We then get accused of elitism! I see no problem in awarding high achievers - they are very often neglected.

It does get tiring sometimes. We did a Black African Pupils research project and were accused by the more vocal in the Black Caribbean community of failing their children, even though we had done a research project for them two years previous (with a Portuguese and Somali project in the intervening years).

It is now the turn of our White British pupils project. God knows what we'll be accused of.

They really are lefties but with hardcore racism thrown in. That's why they've taken their support from Labour voters not Conservatives, who mainly went to UKIP.

I see what you mean, but I find it hard to believe Labour voters would vote for a racist party. I've always held being a lefty as fundamentally non-racist. It's a confusing world.

People who watch QT probably don't vote BNP anyway (UKIP, maybe).

BNP voters get their political information from posters, The Sun/Star/Sport, and word of mouth down the pub. OK, I'm stereotyping, but it's essentially true.

It is essentially true. The amount of times I hear that the Irish, Scots etc. are "allowed" to celebrate their national day, but the English aren't is unbelievable.

I can't remember the last time I was banned from having a pint on St George's day. Or the last time all the Irish etc. were given a day off from work for St Patrick's Day.

Anyone see the documentary about the 1929 Stockmarket collapse last night on BBC4? Very informative and interesting, and of course, relevant.

Probably be repeated.

I work from all the time.. works perfectly, I suppose you have to be dedicated to your job for it to work, some people are right lazy shits and see it as an excuse to have a day off, and check thier email once every 2 hours.

And there are no issue with data or security, a secureID token and a VPN connection resolves all that.

I'm trying to get hold of that VPN stuff.

When I have worked from home, I've bizarrely done a days work by about 2pm because I'm not bothered by phonecalls or office chat. And maybe I'm paranoid that the bosses may think I'm being a lazy shit! I think it would soon become apparent in most jobs if nothing was getting done by those working at home.

Oh and Santa, when did Blokey become soooo offensive, is it because we are all "supposed to be in touch with our feminine side"?

well bollocks to that, I'm a bloke and **** proud of it.

New Zealand is definitely the country for you.

I voted No. It's good that Hussein was deposed, but that should have been done first time.

I can't help but feel the poll is slightly biased

Oh bollocks! How do I edit?

Having read the discussion regarding MPs expenses and the need for them to attend Westminster, I mused on the subject of working from home, especially for office workers.

I know damn well that I could for most of the week, if it wasn't for me having access to personal data and all the security issues that entails.

I think there must be a huge number of employees across the country, and in city centres particularly, that could work at least three days of the week from home. The benefits on travel/environment would be huge. But would it be negative for "city centre" shops, food outlets etc.?

Could it work? And if not, what are the objections? I've outlined some in the poll.[/table]

BOF : Edited, ya big numpty :P