Clarry

A lot of the overspend on BSF is on private "consultants". Which, where I am is usually Aussie and NZ graduates getting £40,000+ for jobs which are basically admin. I'm a leftie, but I blame Labour and my Council for this. But I don't begrudge the workers this, because to get people on 2/3 year contracts they are more likely (in my mind) to have to offer a higher wage because of the short -term employment. Hence the popularity with "Aussie/NZers. I wouldn't rick it. Give me a lower wage and longevity(soon to go though!) And it's easier to get Anderson's Consultants to bring in the staff than to have you're own Council HR advertise, recruit and employ. Easier, not cheaper.

But the schools built round me are very impressive. It seems to be the British disease (under any political hue) though, that whenever something "big" needs building, the costs are higher than anywhere else because of the "old boys" culture. Wembley being an example. And the Olympics...what a surprise that some on the committe own large tracts of land where the Olympic Village is being built.

Back to the school building projects...we have MPs telling children in some schools to stay in their disgraceful classroom conditions. High-waged men and women, some being millionaires and multi-millionaires, telling schools (and thus children) to put up with it. Would they sit in Parliament with leaking roofs, no heating in winter and no air-conditioning in summer? Or their constituency offices? No.

Child abuse.

What do you think of Gove and what he is doing?

If you know a child is in a prefab classroom that is unbearably hot in summer and freezing cold in winter you do something about it, whatever the cost.

To withdraw the money and leave them there is child abuse.

I didn't think any bloke likes having his viewpoints challenged Bicks?! :wink:

Joking aside.... something seems to be up that's for sure...but exactly what is going on we'll just have to wait & see I suppose...

......2012

It really doesn't matter either way. Man affects the environment adversely in many other ways. Global warming or not, man-made or not, fossil fuels will run out. We need to do more than have academic arguments.

Some of the answers on this thread belong in Berlin in 1936.

And proof of the dumbing down of the entire country is here, students are threatening to go on strike, that is dumb. Back in the day, students would have had a march in London, the odd sit in to raise awareness (or kill the vice chancellor in my case, good job we brought the coffin along - :oops: most unfortunate) and gone along to the bar and had a few shandies and considered the job done, going on strike would have been obviously laughable

I remember a student march or two in Cardiff. On one, the leader of the student Socialist Worker's Party shouted "let's storm the Council" a huge cheer went up in agreement and he went charging up the steps with his flag, to find he was the only one who'd bothered.

We never used to strike, we had "work-ins". It was the only time some people had been in the University library.

Erm... but the money is there. It doesn't matter how intangible an asset is, it can still have extreme value and importance.

We give it the value and importance. We can then turn around and say '**** that' if need be.

People seem to have this idea that money is more than what it actually is, and it's pathetic.

It is nothing. Sooner people get their head round that the better. Having people blinded by money and the desire for more of it create more ills in the world than it solves.

Obviously that will never happen, as long as people have their egos fed and fence around their homes to keep the peasants out, who cares right?

Well said. It's how I approach life.

Put it this way. Would it be fair to bale out Liverpool's debt by taking money from Forest Green?

What about Tax avoidance Clarry?

I'd come down on it with an iron fist.

I think they used to be culled about 10 years ago. I certainly remember a friend saying he overlooked a garden that was full of them, and they all disappeared over night.

Well Clarry, and avfc89 and in fact anyone who has a better idea will get their chance now to say what should be done

Link

I fimly expect the great British public to want to take it from the scapegoats.

In reality it has to come from all of us, and i would start with banks having the choice a) start paying back from your profits now, or release funds from your profits to support small businesses etc.

6. It may also mean that the public services that you receive could be delivered in a more efficient and better manner than they being currently, thus you get a better service.

Quite frankly how anyone could imagine that we as a country can just ignore this debt and carry on merrily, well that's the abhorrent thing.

I can't disagree with what your saying in all your points. But in point 6) a lot of people see "efficient" as cheaper. That's my worry. chop cash from services that need it; and I don't mean jobs/wages, but money going directly to special needs in education, for instance.

Something has to be done about the debt but it never seems to be top-down, but bottom-up.

So all this debt is the fault of the public sector, the unemployed, and other recievers of benefits? Right, got you now

Has anybody actually said that and can you point me to it?

Not any VT'ers, but these seem to be the people the media are pointing at. A bit of a red herring really.

So no VTers, no politicians, just the media?

The politicians are quite happy to see these people scapegoated when it comes to paying for the failings of people earning what the the great unwashed can only dream of with a winning lottery ticket.

So all this debt is the fault of the public sector, the unemployed, and other recievers of benefits? Right, got you now

Has anybody actually said that and can you point me to it?

Not any VT'ers, but these seem to be the people the media are pointing at. A bit of a red herring really.

So all this debt is the fault of the public sector, the unemployed, and other recievers of benefits? Right, got you now.

Bullying :shock: is this the new labour buzz word , seems to be cropping up a heck of late from it' s supporters

First I heard of the incident was this morning on the 5 live phone in .. but the vast majority of callers said the governemnt were right to not take part in the show with Campbell .. he not being a labour front bencher and never having been elected to office

I thought Liebour would have put Campbell and his ilk out to pasture by now , new era of politics and all that .. it's clear that the public don't want to see the likes of him and Mandelson on their TV's anymore

You're slipping!!!

stating who goes on Question time panel

Well, they tried but it appears they were put rather firmly in their place by the BBC and, specifically, those in charge of Question Time.

I doubt Downing Street were too happy to have Davis on This Week, either.

I wonder whether they'll throw a bit of a wobbly and only let junior ministers out of the box for (BBC) news programmes for a while.

Sounds like Alex Ferguson!

Well it's begun, 400 jobs to be cut in Lambeth Council, 215 in Children's Services. And this is without being told to make cuts by the government.

Which begs a few questions. If my job gets cut, have all I've done in the past 5 years been a lie? Have Lambeth's improved results entirely been down to them?

Could be worse if "outstanding" schools choose the Academy route. Have more schools become "outstanding" without the aid of Local Authority "interference"? What about the schools left behind? Where do they get their support from?

Is 43, too old to become an Adult movie star?

Thinking about it they should up vat to 20% BUT say to anyone earning the minimum wage that they pay no tax. What would the minimum wage equate to on a full time annual wage? (35 hour week)

whatever that is, should be the threshold. £10k doesn't get you very far nowadays, not without still relying on benefits and credits, which doesn't solve the problem does it.

Just over £10. But everyone I know on minimum wage survive on that alone and without other benefits. But they are all single.

As well as less innocent people in other countries as well surely???

Double Tax Whammy!

I was being a bit melodramatic, I know, but we can't control what we pick and choose where our tax goes.

I agree that a specialist's diagnosis should be acceptable to provide evidence without going to some government Dr Mengele to judge which queue you should join. It's efficient and saves costs. However, their diagnosis should be on the injury/illness affecting the claimant's "job of choice".

Example: a friend was told he could not do manual labour (carpentry) anymore by a Harley Street specialist, but the government doctor knew "better". My friend (aged 55) was quite happy to retrain or do other work.

Tax evaders are scumbags. Tax is a thorny subject to me. I don't mind paying, but I know some of my cash goes to killing innocent people in other countries. This bothers me more than it going to people who can't be bothered to work. We can't choose where it goes. But I would go as far to say that if you evade tax, you are responsible for sub-standard schools, services and ultimately avoidable deaths in hospitals.

I like seasons. A bit of sunshine is nice in the spring and summer, but I love autumn and winter too. Contrasts.

As Pete Townshend once put it:

I dig every second

I can laugh in the snow and rain

I get a buzz from being cold and wet

The pleasure seems to balance out the pain

I'm with you on this.

As John lennon put it:

When the rain comes, they run and hide their heads,

They might as well be dead, when the rain comes.

When the sun shines, they slip into the shade,

And sip their lemonade, when the sun shines.....(G,C,D and one of the first jangly guitar tunes ever).

So to mitigate against this... Why not get the banks to lend to businesses sensibly to expand and continue to trade hopefully increases their revenues so that they employ more people who need less benefits and consequently pay more tax...

Absolutely spot on.

Apparently, if they froze all benefits & public sector salaries for 5 years it would save £8bill in the first year...

and £120bill over the 5 years (8+16+24+32+40).

i think the debt is at a stage where something like this needs to be done.

It could work maybe if price increases were kept down too and targetted taxation in the private sector. We're all in it together :cry:

fine to a certain degree, but if taxes on business go up too much what's to stop them moving their business elsewhere, or moving admin sections to places like India, saving millions for them and also making thousands of people here redundant.

It is the eternal problem.

Start drilling in the Falklands?

Apparently, if they froze all benefits & public sector salaries for 5 years it would save £8bill in the first year...

and £120bill over the 5 years (8+16+24+32+40).

i think the debt is at a stage where something like this needs to be done.

It could work maybe if price increases were kept down too and targetted taxation in the private sector. We're all in it together :cry: