ciggiesnbeer

fair enough Voinjama. I think most of Wigans squad are now Martinez's. Come to think of it I am not sure who bought NZogbia, him or Bruce.

Yeah great manager. Steve Bruce brought Wigan to 11th and ever since then Martinez has dragged them down into a relegation fight never finishing above 16th always playing his dross football.

Why anyone would want to inflict Martinez on Villa is beyond me. I know Mcleish is a terrible manager but dear god dont start hoping for likeable crap managers like big mick or martinez.

Let me ask you this. Look through the Wigan squad and how many of those players are actually premiership quality.

Not many. Because Martinez bought them and he is not Premiership quality.

He has pissed away more money than WestBrom since he took over and yet has consistently failed to improve on Steve Bruce. What Martinez HAS done is deliver Wigans biggest losses on the field in their clubs history while having a worse win record than Alex McLeish. Some record.

I know times are hard and we dont want our current manager. But please dont fall for Martinez's bullshit.

I do think Martinez will be a fine Championship manager, but then again so is McLeish.

I think our club deserves better.

Yeah great manager. Steve Bruce brought Wigan to 11th and ever since then Martinez has dragged them down into a relegation fight never finishing above 16th always playing his dross football.

Why anyone would want to inflict Martinez on Villa is beyond me. I know Mcleish is a terrible manager but dear god dont start hoping for likeable crap managers like big mick or martinez.

His teams play dour uninspired football.

Far from it.. how can you say McLeish and Martinez play the same type of football? that's just wrong.

Think defensively they are poor but the football intent to pass it around is evident.

Honestly mate. I have been round and round with folks on this. For all his talk his teams just play some half assed version of what possession football should be. Same way we play some half assed version of what fast paced counter attacking football should be.

McLeish has a better win% in the Premier league than Martinez but McLeish has been relegated. You can toss a coin which you think is the more terrible manager.

Whether you think Martinez is slightly better or worse than McLeish he is clearly in the same bracket of B level managers who cannot make their teams play well for any amount of time.

I find it incredibly depressing this pair of clowns were our boards first and second choices. I would hate to see us get rid of McLeish only to go to the next loser manager like Martinez who is in line.

Martinez is way better than McLeish.

Not from the games I have seen he isnt. His teams play dour uninspired football. I invite you (if you can bear it) to actually go watch Wigan. dear god the pain.

Martinez like to SAY his teams play attractive possession football. But the reality is he plays the same turgid stuff as most relegation managers. Coyle, Martinez, McArthy, McLeish. All the same dross. We need a real manager not some garbage like Martinez.

I want AM out as much as most.

However, i can't believe anyone with a ounce of football knowledge could suggest going down is ok as long as it means him losing his job.

Indeed, nothing good comes from relegation. Nothing.

Martinez is just Mcleish with a nicer accent. He would be a sideways move not a forward one.

I hope the Lerner investment rumour is true. Although I have to say the ONLY upside about our current situtaion is we are getting to see our academy play more. They are doing us proud as well.

Good point today. I dont think Mcleish is the right man for the job but nobody can seriously complain about a point from a game we all assumed we would get plastered in.

I have been pretty steadily behind the bloke the whole season but now its just getting too close for comfort. Now is the time to sack him and change our form.

The time to give him a chance was a month or so ago as a last shot. Now we should be in full panic mode and changing manager. We need a change.

When the plane is going down you may as well start hitting as many buttons as you can in case one of them has an effect. We need to hit this button. We ARE looking relegation as a very real possibility if something doesnt change. He cant change, he has had a season.

Time to man up and pay him off Randy. You made a mistake.

Anyone else heard McLeish sacked?

You are a cruel man.

AZ just scored again. Such a strange feeling, supporting a team that plays well and looks motivated to win.

Bloody brilliant!

By played off the park, I meant they were playing keepball while Liverpool were meant to be pushing for an equalizer (admittedly, that's probably more an indictment of Liverpool) right till the final whistle.

But your logic is flawed. Just because Wigan lose a lot, then Martinez is a loser and he'd lose if he came to Villa? He has by far the worst squad in the league and probably the smallest budget. Yet he's kept Wigan up 3 seasons in a row while better squads went down, and managed to pull out some impressive wins during crunch time.

That being said, I'm not saying we should go for Martinez but he isn't as crap as you are making him out.

Fair enough. Yeah I was going a bit overboard and yes keeping Wigan up is an achievement. I am reacting to the football press who keep describing Wigan as playing some kind of beautiful football. I have been subjected to watching Wigan many times and I just havent seen it (Swansea on the other hand do play some bloody pleasing stuff).

My opinion, is McLeish and Martinez are in a similar bracket of managers. (you can put one or another marginally above the other) I am angry that this pair were the boards first choices, fans were thinking people like Ancellotti. I was and remain dismayed at the gap of ambition.

For the club to move forward, their needs to be a shift change in the way the club plays, coaches and nurtures its players. .

This bit at least is right. Even if you have a wrong opinion on Martinez

No Martinez is a shit manager. Wigan play like shit and Swansea under him played like shit, unlike now under a decent manager where they play well. It is bollocks he has his teams play beautiful football , its just a myth. Go actually WATCH Wigan play. They are terrible and play terrible ugly tactics.

No he would be a step sideways or backwards from McLeish.

So his team got lucky against Liverpool, McLeish's team got lucky against Chelsea. It happens from time to time but both of them are consistently poor managers.

I doubt that you've ever watched Wigan play. They play very good passing football, and are near the top of the possession stats. They also create far more chances per game than the teams around them, and for a team who's main striker is Franco Di Danto, that is in impressive. Also, lucky? Did you even see Wigan quite literally play Liverpool off the park?

I doubt you have watched Wigan play with any regularity, dont be fooled by your match of the day highlights. They play shit.

Wigan didnt play anywhere near as well as Villa did when we played Chelsea off the park (ie: had a good lucky game like Wigan). So if thats your only example clearly McLeish is a better manager as Chelsea is the better team. Wolves played ManU "off the park" last year, should we get big Mick in as well?

Regardless of whether you think McLeish or Martinez is the better bottom feeder manager we should not be satisfied with our club scouring clubs who bobble long in the relegation zone.

If you want some good football and dont care about losing then lets get AVB in, it would be exciting t least. With Martinez we would lose and play dross football.

No Martinez is a shit manager. Wigan play like shit and Swansea under him played like shit, unlike now under a decent manager where they play well. It is bollocks he has his teams play beautiful football , its just a myth. Go actually WATCH Wigan play. They are terrible and play terrible ugly tactics.

No he would be a step sideways or backwards from McLeish.

So his team got lucky against Liverpool, McLeish's team got lucky against Chelsea. It happens from time to time but both of them are consistently poor managers.

To be fair, we don't know who the board's first choice manager was. I doubt McLeish was at the top of their list, but that still doesn't excuse appointing him. Gary Mac would've been a better appointment than this prick.

Agree about Mac. But lets remember Villa went out and actively headhunted crap managers like Martinez and McLeish. We actually paid money to get McLeish as amazing as it sounds.

Hopefully Randy will finally see that Mcleish isn't the man to take us forward. I don't care if he goes now or at the end of the season but the day he goes will be a time for celebration.

Yep, celebrate until you see the next loser Lerner chooses.

Exactly. Remember this is the board whose FIRST choice was Wigans manager, thats right Wigan. Their second choice was Birmingham's relegated manager. The fans wanted managers like Ancellotti or even Rafa.

That tells you all you need to know abut their ambitions for the club versus ours.

If they sack mcleish tomorrow they wont be in for quality managers, they will be ringing up Neil Warnock and Mick Mcarthy.

Someone who will put a shift in to get us more possession AND our scouts have finally got passports.

Thumbs up! Welcome Brett!

I think the problem we have with Charlie is that he's not an out and out winger, like he seems to be asked to play as. He's better running with the ball, cutting inside and getting strikes in on goal, or playing little through balls than getting wide and whipping in a cross.

Yeah , I was thinking watching the game that maybe he could slot into Keanes role after keane moves on because right now he and gabby are competing for the same spot on the wing (which neither really like).

Problem is Charles doesnt have Keanes quick eye for creating a move. Ireland does but that would mean putting Charles out on the other wing again which we have tried before and he struggles.

Class player though, just tough getting him to fit into our squad (similar probem we have with a couple of other players).

The booers need to stay away. Great performance. Total domination and two unlikely goals from QPR. Thumbs up lads, more please.

While its wise to curb the spending i can't see how anyone can argue that hiring someone who was relegated twice was smart.

And why would you want mcleish in charge when you can afford to spend in the future?

Randy has failed and has accepted life as a midtable shit team. **** him!

Even if you believe that, a midtable team is better than the relegation certainties we were shaping up as before Randy arrived. Whatever else I'll always remember that, so the '**** him' attitude doesn't sit well with me.

You're entitled to your opinion of course!

Worth quoting again and again. Lerner has been bloody brilliant for us. A couple of seasons trimming the costs doesnt wipe away the hundreds of millions he has invested into the club. He has been a great owner for us.

**** clueless when it comes to selecting managers of course (I think he has made a bad choice in every single case) but hey nobodys perfect and his current choice may still come good.

even at U19 level i cant come away not fuming!

not even the blatantly onside goal and the couple of other marginal ones that didnt go our way, 5 players needing physio treatment in the space of 15 minutes absolute **** disgrace

superb performance by both teams and a great game in the full 90, gadi will be one to watch

well this really. our goal that should have stood it would have been our win. fffs why don't we ever get some sort of luck

I know, its frustrating as hell we dont seem to catch a break.

Maybe against Arsenal. We won last year against them by some dodgy ref decisions, maybe it will come that way again this year?

Never thought i would see the day when someone would applaud the decision of swapping Gabby for Warnock! Do people really think that it was that move by AM that won us that game? Or do you think it may have just had something to do with Wolves losing their two central midfielders who were dominating us?

If Warnock is so "solid" as someone said, why was he dropped from the starting line-up?

Both Wolves midfielders were on the pitch when we equalised. Besides if you want to take away the credit McLeish has said he didnt want to bring gabby off, gabby was sick. (He may have been planning on bringing someone else off instead though). Bringing on Warnock silenced Kightly who has been ripping through Clark.

Yeah wolves imploded (they should have been down to 9 men after the foul on Bent) but we played well and were in control for much of the game regardless, it was an open flowing game and I enjoyed our performance. Even better that we won.

It's been over 7 months and I still can't get my head around this guy as our manager.

I've been reading the H&V site abit and what a bunch of happy clappers. There's quite a few who are making excuses for him despite the statistics proving why he has relegations. Some take it further by thinking he's doing a good job. :|

Whats H&V stand for? Sounds like a good place.

Heroes & Villans

Cheers.