DCJonah

As if Gerrard and Beale were seen as some sort of dream team at some point. 

I did not give this guy enough credit early on. 

Now he's back I've missed him so much. 

2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

In fairness, on this occasion it's hard to think of an outfield player you'd put on there instead.

 

True but I'd just think it's a great chance to get a youngster that experience of being round the first team. 

Kellyman not fit again?

Just now, Jas10 said:

 

 

Why the **** do we need 2 keepers on the bench. 

Thank God Pau is back. 

Just hope Pau is in that starting line up. 

I'd like to see Diaby and Bailey start some games together. 

I hope there is actual justice and he has to pay this money combined with his defamation case. 

I didn't need these allegations to know he's a word removed. 

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

I agree, it does speak of his character.

But then…
a] Surely the other ultra-competitive sides impacted at the time (Real Madrid in particular) queried this and/or got in on the act.
b] If you’re of the opinion that doping happened, was it just at Barcelona or also Bayern/Man City? And, as a follow on, the same query again - why is no-one bringing this up or are they doing it themselves?

Football is a horrible, greedy sport. I can’t see any way that one manager is at the top of the game running a doping exercise across multiple sides, winning a vast number of trophies that a load of blokes on VillaTalk know about, but the rest of the football world doesn’t regard or doesn’t act on in the same way.

It makes no sense. 

Yeah I'd agree to some extent but I can't think of another manager considered an all time great that have this many dodgy associations linked around them. 

As a player then 2 out of 3 clubs managed. It's a lot for one man. 

Doping in football

Good article on doping in football mainly focused on Italian teams. 

I enjoyed this bit though. 

Quote

More recently, Pep Guardiola, while playing for Brescia in Italy, failed two drug tests in late 2001, testing positive for the banned steroid nandrolone. He received a four-month ban, a seven-month suspended prison sentence and a €9,000 fine.

 

Over six years, Guardiola used a defence of contamination, which wasn’t true, and then claimed he had a medical condition causing the anomalous result, which was initially not accepted until that decision was reversed on a technicality, a decision Italy’s anti-doping authorities disagreed with. 

Just speaks of his character. And then amazingly some dodgy dr was with him at Barcelona. 

Don't forget barcelona paying off refs. 

How many other great managers should have these question marks next to their achievements? 

2 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

again though the money spent and the quality of the players misses a massive point - those expensive quality players play their best football in a pep guardiola team, he's making the worlds best players play better

but then 3 examples in 15 years will be thrown out to say why that's not true....

The whole pep thing reminds me of Michael Jordan. People are so obsessed with him as the GOAT that these myths seem to appear that he always did everything amazing and never struggled or failed. 

7 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Yeah, it took him longer.  I'm not sure that's the kind of "gotcha" that you're after, though.  Man City have spent a lot of money, but not as much (or even, not significantly more) than their rivals for either the Premier League or the Champions League.

After his first season with Man City, he's only got better in the CL.  They've been QF or better every single season since 17/18 - not that this in itself is a particularly great achievement, but it's far better than a lot of other sides who have spent a similar amount of money.

 

People are set in their views on Guardiola's ability - even if I think a lot of that is clouded by a] Man City and b] him being a knob.  Nothing said is going to change either view here  

I wasn't trying for a gotcha. 

The talk was the value for money he brings. I was pointing out he failed to win the champions league with bayern and it took him a good while to win it with City. 

2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Chelsea and Man Utd have spent more money than City since Pep arrived. And Arsenal are only about 30m behind City. We've been over this

One season  

One season? I think it took him a bit longer. Didn't he join 2016? 

53 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Again, because no manager has ever been good enough to stay at a rich club long enough to get that money.

If Mourinho or Solksjaer or Lampard or Tuchel or Potter had been good enough to deliver the kind of return for money that pep has then they'd have had even more to spend.

But they weren't.

Or they weren't at a club who had more money than anyone else due to financial fraud. 

He failed to win the champions league with Bayern. 

Took him awhile and a lot of money to finally win it with city. 

I'm not a technical expert at all but reading that the redbull have done something crazy with their sidepods. 

Are they just going to dominate again?

4 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

Pep spent close to £1bn in his first two years at City. Imagine having that luxury. 

No other manager ever has. 

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

no they weren't, the class players that were there were in a dressing room of massive egos who were phoning it in

and even then pep still got those world class players to perform better under him than they did previously, you can say xavi and iniesta were world class under rijkaard from 2005 onwards but there's still the fact that pep then elevated their game, and that's the whole point, his skill set is making quality players play their best football

but they were a contender for the best team in history while he was there

He's also failed with this as well.

Zlatan was awful under him. Grealish is not the player he was. Phillips was an utter waste of money. 

But because Pep has unlimited funds because of cheating we can just dismiss expensive flops and focus on the successes. Nearly every other club can't afford to just write off the losses man city can. 

£100 million player has started 6 games this season. Any other club and the manager would be slaughtered for that. Phillips would be a record signing for most premier league sides but that amount means nothing to pep and City. He didn't work out, who cares, sign the next one. 

4 hours ago, LondonLax said:

Even if Man City are guilty of spending more than they were allowed he still created a dominant side on a budget smaller than Chelsea or Man U’s. 

Also, when you talk about him being given world class players at Barcelona, surely they only became world class because of his coaching? 

He's had a billion pounds plus to build his squad. Name another manager who has had that. 

Claiming those players only became world class because of his coaching is the trump cult level of ridiculousness that surrounds this guy. 

An insane comment 

Drug cheating as a player. 

Controversial drug doping doctor works at barcelona with him. 

Barcelona paying off refs during his time there. 

Man city found guilty by Uefa

Man city investigated by the prem for 115 charges.

Can anyone name another top class manager that's had this level of corruption and scandal follow them round? 

6 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Out of interest, how good do you think he is?  Let's say... in comparison to current Premier League managers.

I think he's a very good manager. Clearly in the top section in current managers. 

But I'd caveat that with the fact he's always had every advantage given to him. 

I don't buy this greatest of all time and I think he's over hyped. I think his legacy is in tatters if City are found guilty. 

I don't think he's done anything in his career more impressive than other great managers. I think klopp with Liverpool is more impressive than anything pep has done. I think if arsenal won the league you could say the same about Arteta. 

I think he's also a shit of a man and find it interesting that so much controversy in regards to cheating seems to follow him round. 

4 minutes ago, bobzy said:

So he's a great manager, yes?

No, I don't think so. There's a huge space between shit and great. 

I've repeatedly said I think he's overrated and overhyped. I never said he was shit. 

54 minutes ago, bobzy said:

You've absolutely interpreted incorrectly.  In fact, I'd say you haven't even been bothered to read posts properly.

No I have thanks. Its pretty clear 

42 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Again; who is saying he's done no wrong?

The only person putting things to one side is you. You're completely dismissing any ability he might have because cheating.

Nobody is saying cheating isn't a big deal. nobody is saying it isn't the worst thing about sport. Nobody is saying Pep can do no wrong

This is all entirely in your head

No I'm not. 

I haven't said he's an awful manager. I'm dismissing what he's done at city because of what's built it. 

I haven't dismissed any ability he might have. 

You seem to be doing the thing you're accusing me of. 

12 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I don't think anyone has said they're a fan, that the club cheating is put to one side nor that he can do no wrong.

Pointless continuing this.

Maybe I've interpreted incorrectly then. For me, I'd assume that someone who spends time defending him from criticism and finding ways to argue in his favour, even though there's doping allegations and financial fraud involved, would have to be a fan of his.