steaknchips

Some fans wouldnt see the strengths. Because they cant see behind their hatred of the man. I dont think he has the likability factor...But he knows to run a football club.. McLeish is likeable, he talks a good game..But he isnt as skilled in the modern game. Likability v Skill, is what the poll should be.

Last season Houllier said he would be running this season with our crop of emerging youngsters, aiming to give them 40 games...Yet since McLeish has come in, these youngsters have so far been held back. Different managers do different things...Ive a guess, had McLeish been manager of Manchester United, then we would be seeing more of Berbatov, Park etc and less of Wellbeck, Cleverley etc...It comes down to the type of manager you are and the ability you have as a coach.. Bannan, Albrighton and Clark are ready and if Fergie,Houllier etc was our manager these players would be starting. There was list in the press last season of young players to watch out for this season; On that list was Jones, Kelly, Wilshere, Ramsey, Albrighton, Clark, Wellbeck.. And its the Villa lads that are the only ones getting left behind. Its important this season to play them, otherwise rot will set into their minds and they will begin to question their ability and confidence as players. This season under Houllier, he said 40 games for the likes of Albrighton, Clark,Bannan and Delph...I would also have imagined we would have seen 20 games then from Gardner, Delfouneso and Baker...The art of improving is to think of the future and get them moving through the system..

If thats the case, we obviously have massive improvements to be made in this area...My question is, why can a club like Lyon bring through and/or develop players like Benzema, Toulalan, Essien, Malouda, Diarra, Abidal? Yet we are churing out Luke Moore, Liam Ridgewell...

Because one game doesn't make a player? -------- Then give him 2 games, then 3 games, then 4 games etc Because if you think the way your thinking, the players would never be ready..He is 22 years old.. Give all the youngsters until January, using a mixture of experience in the team with them. Rotate the squad and keep it competetive. By Jan we will have a clearer indication of who can step up..Herd or Lichaj may well have adapted during that short spell and saved us 4m and 30k a week in wages..And if it all does look a bit wobbly between now and Jan, we always have a reliable and proven solid player defensively in Cuellar..

Its a problem at our club, that when young players reach the 1st team the managers are too scared to play them..The car they were traveling in soon starts to break down and stall, along with their promising careers...The same exact thing happened to MrCahill, who is now performing in the full International team but plys his services elsewhere.. The only youth player to ever come through regulary in recent times was Gabby..Yet we have some of the best facilities in the world...Something just dosnt add up. Like you said alot of them are 22 yrs old,yet when at youth level were a match for any of the youths around them...Yet ours when 1st team comes along just get frozen out.. Its time for the club to show some bottle and get these kids that have sat around the 1st team squad for 2/3 seasons into the set up alot more often and chuck out the players like Heskey and Petrov that are holding them back. Why did we buy Hutton for 4m and another 30k ish wage per week just after Herd had just swallowed Jarvis up for his supper? Its things like this that knock the lads confidence..He should have been given the chance, with Beye/Cuellar always at hand for back up...We would have been ok.

Yeah that is why we had so few injuries and we came 6th 3 years on the trot. Our training was terrible thank god we had Houllier come in with his 'new' methods which led to mass injuries and had us in a relegation scrap. The majority of our players didnt have the fitness levels to compete at top level. And to get these players up to the levels required takes time..If you watch the team throughout last season..Look at Petrov at the start of season "before" Houllier even came to the club..Take a look at the 6-0 drubbing we took off Newcastle, where he captained the side..His shirt is full of sweat, he looked tired and well short of match fitness(This was near the start of the campaign and before Houllier even came to the club).. Then take a look at Petrov in the last few games of last season, after spending time under the new training program..You will have noticed a sharper, fitter player in Petrov.. Sometimes improvements take time until you can see the results..

Ive already explained why the majority of our players enjoy working with him...Its because he is on their level..McLeish wouldnt have the 1st idea how to implement world class, modern day training technics that can move a club forward..Which is what you want if Villa are to EVER get in the top 4 again. The game has evolved,it continues to evolve..Cloughie wouldnt last 5 mins in today's game...Blimey managers like Jol and Sven are struggling to keep up..Let alone McLeish..And now Wenger is slowly starting to struggle..Its not all money...Its evolotion of football. Houllier was in touch with the modern day football...But our club wasnt. Its needs to change and it will hurt when we do change...You cant have one half of the room being coached Clougie style and the other side into finely tuned athletes...It needs to run all through the club. And that was the problem that Houllier was facing.

So when Dunne comes into training after his previous night's 6 pts of lager and A chicken Vindaloo and Houllier asks him to do training which is far to advanced for the fat lump of lard..Houllier is then supposed to lower his training and coaching methods to suit the player? Or shouldnt he not set the standards of high level coaching to the standards he is at and wants to get the club at? At the end of the day Houllier was too advanced in his coaching for some of our players..So the club have now resorted to getting manager thats on a level with our playing personel...And the players that were at Houllier's level are leaving or have left the club...And in return we are now signing Hutton, Jenus and going for players like Davis.

Houllier would have been more clued up than Wenger on classy young players with potiential and their availability..Plus has just as much pulling power...He is very well regarded as a top coach on the continent. If Houllier can help move France as a nation into the modern era with coaching, training, tactics, player developement etc and earn a recognision for this work....Why couldnt he do the same for a club like Villa? And if young players can never be coached to become top 4 quality, where's the next generation of top 4 players coming from? Yes it is that simple and comes down to coaching.. Houllier has helped coach more players that have become top 4 material and world class, than any manger we have ever had in recent Premiership history..Yes he did have experience in this field.. But you are right...Because he never lowered his standards of a coach to fit in with MON''s players...It makes him a sh1t manager...errr NOT..Never lower your standards, despite whatever crap you have to work with. Duverne and Houllier was a HUGE opportunity for this club and I would consider us lucky to have got them...And extremely UNLUCKY Houllier was not well enough to continue his work. Did you know that Lyon won the ligue title 7 years running with Duverne as fitness trainer? With the French press giving him huge credit in the process..Its only since he has departed that Lyon have started to slide. Maybe we wouldnt have got into the top 4...But trying and having a system is better than just settling for mediocrity, where we know for SURE we wont ever get top 4..Take the chance or just plod along? Which would you prefer?

Our defence isnt as good as some are shouting about. 1st off we aint played anybody decent as of yet..Given was MOTM v Fulham, making at least 3 very good saves, so thankyou Shay for the clean sheet there.. Blackburn we allowed Pedersen to run from the midfield to head in from a cross and nobody picked him up. Wolves, we had Herd as MOTM playing RB because he kept Jarvis out the game(one of Wolves main supply lines for goals).. Its far too early to be shouting from the rooftops that we have a great defence..I do think Given is a huge improvement on an aging Friedel..But lets wait until we start playing the big boys, lets wait and see if the defence can handle when negativity creeps in, when we a lose a game or 2..Lets wait until injuries and suspensions kick in.. And I do agree with all those saying that they have a defensive set up just infront of them which also makes them look good...And at the same time its making our front line look average. I will interested to see what the team do when we go a goal down..Because we will have to come out and play then, this will leave gaps...ATM McLeish has played a very careful game where he hasnt had to commit players going forward...

Fair point AVFC, We too beat those teams along with Arsenal too..But when casting a judgement on how a manager sets his teams up, I would like watch the value of the play involved.. Our display was somewhat, us coming out and taking the game to these teams it wasnt good luck v United and co', yet good honest football with ctreative flair and movement.There were signs of cleverness in the play..If anything most of last season, bad luck played its part in alot of late goals being conceded etc and that slight lack of experience. We are talking about a manager that despite all the sh1t he was dealt with, still came out and put on a display of creative football, no matter whom the playing personel were...Whether it was Herd at CB or Lichaj bossing Bale at RB..You could see the signs..You could see that with a little tweak in the Summer and that the youth would be a year older and wiser, the new season did look promising..

We could have gone 4/5 nil up against Man United that day...Crap teams dont do that sort of thing to an unbeaten United side high on confidence. We destroyed them for 80mins of the game...Signs were there that day that Villa can be a great side and set up under Houllier. Things to note were the movement, vision and creative flair in our side that had the know how to turn a United defence upside down...I know our lack of experience let Man U back in the game with 10mins to go...But there was enough positives to take from that game to see we can build on this system.

Is McLeish getting the best out of Darren Bent? And does McLeish understand what the player can do? Ive not seen any evidence so far since McLeish took over to suggest he does. Yet this is what Houllier had to say;

Houllier and Duverne = world class and up to date with modern European football..They knew the standards required to be the best..They knew the tactics, coaching, styles to play to be the best..Both have been there, wore the T-Shirt and wrote the rule book. McLeish and Grant = Are nowhere near on that same level. Took Blues down twice, dont understand the levels required to stay in the Premierleague, let alone rule Europe. Aint got a clue about technical ability, modern tactics/training etc..More suited to your English Sunday league pub team.. You may as well do a poll; Ron Saunders v Barry Fry.

Its all guess work...Because had Houllier stayed players like Dunne, Warnock, Collins, Heskey and Petrov could very well have departed just like Sidwell, Carew, Davis, etc did in the Jan..Thus freeing up huge spaces on the wages to bring in replacements....Houllier may well have done this summer, what McLeish will be doing "next summer"..Houllier could have been ahead with the progression of Villa. He was also ahead on getting the youth moving through the squad, or out on loan..Nothing was stale or standing still. Plans were in place to bring in the new recruits.. Even if Downing and Young had gone, just like they did with McLeish, there is no guarantee he would have spent 10m on N'Zogbia putting him on 60k a week...He may have bought Shaqiri for 8m and Fofana for 800k instead putting them on 30k/40k a week.. He may have signed Westwood on a free putting him on 45k a week instead of Given on 60k a week..Also freeing up another 20k a week for maybe another young star player from the continent..Its all guess work.. One thing was certain, is that he expected high standards and the players to reach higher levels in training and work rate.

What on earth are you talking about ?? He wanted to change us to a winning club ? WE WERE A WINNING CLUB !!! - the four months previous I'd been to Wembley twice in two months- it was twice in 20 yrs before that !!!!!! A winning club finishing 6th three times in a row? LOL Houllier plans were a lot bigger than that. He doesn't subscribe to the British mentality of accepting mediocrity. Only nobody including you know what his plans were. As a connoisseur of all things French, I could actually see what his plans were.. :winkold:

We will see...But for a French under 20 captain, the 1.5m Lyon have just paid for him looks good business. Wasn't GED'y about to snap him up for about £5m ? "Midfielder Fofana, 19, was in Birmingham hoping to seal a move from Le Havre worth about £800,000."

We will see...But for a French under 20 captain, the 1.5m Lyon have just paid for him looks good business.

If you replace '5' with '1' it'd make perfect sense, judging on the actual facts of his reign, rather than on utopic fan visions of grandeur. The club saw that and kicked him out even though the doctors gave him a pass for his medical condition. He must thank GMac for steering the ship well in the end of the season. Well I wouldnt worry mate because we now have a 2 star manager that can deliver a 2 star service..Dunne and co' are at his level and happy as punch, whilst Bent, N'Zogbia, Albrighton, Bannan and Clark(the 5 stars) are unhappy at the standards of the toilets and dirty sheets. Watch this space because like Young,Makoun and Downing the 5 star employers will soon be looking to join a hotel that understands they offer a 5 star service.

Good post above.. Houllier is like a 5 star hotelier going to run a 2 star hotel..He has the 5 star standards and can deliver the 5 star service...But unfortunately the old existing staff were too set in their ways of not cleaning the toilets properly or changing sheets properly...Yet Houllier could train the new recruits and young college staff how to change the sheets and clean the toilets but the old timers could never grasp it.. And unfortunately the 5 star Hotelier was never going to drop his standards and say its ok to not clean toilets or change sheets properly..He would continue with his standards and drill it into the old staff that he wants a 5 star service..

We still didn't win as many games as we should have done and at the end of the day that's all that matters in football? Plus all I saw on the pitch was some gutless displays by a team who obviously thought their manager was an idiot! Apparently Fat Sam used to employ some revolutionary ideas in his training but he was still not someone I wanted as a manager of our club! Houllier record is still poor compared to Mourinho, Pep, Wenger, SAF, Lippi, Ancellotti and even Dalglish. To make him out to be the most technically gifted coach in the world is deluded at best! All the interviews you keep posting are just words, he has never backed this up with success on the pitch at a top European team! Its hard to explain...But Houllier is behind France as a Nation becoming one of the best footballing Countries in the world. He basically helped(was the main figure)set up Clairefontaine. Which enabled France to start football coaching "as a nation" to rival Spain and Holland, it has since overtaken both those and arguably leading the way in player development and coaching. The work Houllier does is above those coaches you mention because he is at the heart of invention and change..Most of those coaches are merley using the players that Houllier and his imput in the system in France helped develop..Benzema and Maklouda for instance were developed by Houllier and his system..You should read what these players say about him and the stuff they learnt from him. They both state they would never be where they are had it not been for Houllier. So its not just Carragher and Gerrard that benefited from him, it expands much further.

FFS the 'I completed championship manager' brigade!!! The footballing illuminati!!! The Houllier era was awful!!! A cantankerous old fool, who didn't even realize that you can't polish a turd or try to get Collins and Dunne pass the ball. A man who didn't even recognise that the defense is an important part of a team. I love the that there are people who think they are so superior to everyone else that they can 'see what Houllier was trying to build'. Bollox no one on here has a clue what Houllier was doing, FFS Houllier didn't know what he was doing!!! Who is better GH or AM??? IMO both are mediorce and neither should have been appointed as the boss of our great club!! But Collins and Dunne are obsolete if you want CL football..What does Houllier do? Play an old hat system to suit aging players, with futuristic kids coming though to get the safe draw, or the odd decent 3pts to finish 7th or 8th? Or to set the team up to suit modern day football, that would match the best in Europe and help our future players adapt accordingly? All that Houllier did was set the team up to play old hat tippy tappy football similar to Tony Mowbray in which he played players out of position and we lost games... Hardly revolutionary is it, to lose games because you are too pig headed to admit you are wrong!! As for Collins and Dunne, MON managed to get the same team to within two games of CL positions in the league and two Wembley visits. Houllier managed to get the same team to within two games of relegation.... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out which one was the clueless rocket polisher??? If you think that then maybe you should do some homework...Houllier dosnt do "old hat"...He is constantly moving forward and understands the next generation style of football and the levels required. He is extremely connected and close to Clairfontane which is constantly developing the future football player with future training programs. Duverne is the same, and nowhere near old hat tippy tappy..You are talking about guys that understand methods more advanced that what are instilled at clubs like Barcelona.

FFS the 'I completed championship manager' brigade!!! The footballing illuminati!!! The Houllier era was awful!!! A cantankerous old fool, who didn't even realize that you can't polish a turd or try to get Collins and Dunne pass the ball. A man who didn't even recognise that the defense is an important part of a team. I love the that there are people who think they are so superior to everyone else that they can 'see what Houllier was trying to build'. Bollox no one on here has a clue what Houllier was doing, FFS Houllier didn't know what he was doing!!! Who is better GH or AM??? IMO both are mediorce and neither should have been appointed as the boss of our great club!! But Collins and Dunne are obsolete if you want CL football..What does Houllier do? Play an old hat system to suit aging players, with futuristic kids coming though to get the safe draw, or the odd decent 3pts to finish 7th or 8th? Or to set the team up to suit modern day football, that would match the best in Europe and help our future players adapt accordingly?

I think there are problems between board and manager..Maybe the board have come to there senses and realised by looking at pre-season and the start of this season that McLeish and his team just cant cut it...Would you trust him with 50m? Maybe some members of the board are questioning why he was appointed..I dont sense a team work atmosphere between Manager and board, its almost like they are working against each other.

Of course he was implementing new tactics and a system..Despite a leaky defence last season, did you notice the movement and vision appearing in our young kids? Did you see Albrighton's goal and the build up v Man United? The movement and vision was awesome..This movement was happening in many games and being thread through the whole squad. This wont happen anymore..All you fans banging on about how crap Houllier was and that McLeish is great, you do realise our kids in outfield play, will be crap under McLeish? Delph has started this season, yet he looks lost, no much movement or vision, yet he can be great player..Houllier would turned him into a very decent midfielder and taught him about reading the game, movement, technical ability, vision etc..All he is leaning from Mcleish is to close down at every opportunity and try and pass to a fellow player or clear the ball if under pressure..There is nothing being built or any finese and its a generation of very promising young players gone to waste...Appointing McLeish has set us back years..You can forget Gardner, Bannan, Delph, Albrighton etc making it big now...Yet Houllier would have turned at least one of those into a world class player and all of them would at the very least turned into very decent Premierleague players.. Some fans knock the Man City line up in the FA Cup, without even realising why he chose that line up..Some fail to see the game was huge opportunity to try out some other players in the squad like Bradley out..The game was a competitive game where he could try out other players in the squad without it risking losing more points in a league game..He was expanding his squad and choices. He needed to see who else could step up if needed..The whole season was being used to build Villa for future...It was a transition season.