WhatAboutTheFinish

5 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

To what end?

To try to provide a viable left wing alternative to the government, something that the Labour Party don't seem too keen on (capable of?) doing. 

2 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

It’s been referenced in here plenty of times that there are quite a few anti tory broadly lefty contributors that all claim not to be labour.

It’s true, and you’re comments above could have been written by any one of half a dozen of us on here.

In a way, it’s slightly easier for some of us because we can go and have a dabble with the SNP or whatever. I guess for those in english constituencies the equivalent is the greens?

A little bit crazy but just throwing it out there... maybe the SNP should consider standing candidates with a progressive social agenda south of he border?!

7 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

The voters in the seats Labour lost perceived the party as too Remain. Whether you perceived them that way or not is kind of beside the point. They didn't want a party that had a more consistent of explanation of why we should remain, they wanted a party that was going to act on their instruction to leave.

This may well be true in the main but given that one of the main attack lines on the Labour leadership was that they were "unfit to govern", the inability of Corbyn to decisively give an opinion on the most prominent issue of the day was a fatal mistake. Instead of the hoped making him look 'reasonable', it made him look weak and washed away the image that he was politician of principle. Somebody told me once that 'any decision is better than no decision' and it was advice that Labour would have done well to heed! 

6 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Every bit as much as socialists need to acknowledge that they didn't win the argument for socialism this time, remainers need to accept that they lost the argument for remain in the country. Three years of arguments, protests, talking about it constantly, and the numbers never moved.

That seems like a pretty fair assessment. 

17 minutes ago, bickster said:

Labour's confused constantly changing policy on Brexit really did for them. They should have had the balls to be a solidly remain party (like the vast majority of its members and voters) and gone out from the onset in those communities to explain why being in the EU was in their best interests. I guess those people are going to find out the hard way now.

The only problem with this has always been that it is very hard to make the "Look how terrible the UK has become, more poverty, more inequality, terrible NHS, yada yada" case at the exact same time as the "Look at all the wonders the EU has done for us" case. The two don't really make good bedfellows on a political platform.

1 hour ago, avfcDJ said:

I think Gammon reflects more than just Brexit.

Actually, I have no issues with people wanting to exit the EU, that's cool, but when I ask for reasoning and they tell me it's because of the Muslims, or other faiths, then I know who I am dealing with.

Remainers are not moaners for countering the rhetoric about "foreigners taking our jobs" or defending the NHS, jobs, trade. 

If those on the remain side were countering with positive arguments about the benefits of staying in the EU instead of a continual stream of negative and patronising rebuttals then they probably wouldn't have picked up the moniker. There has been a complete lack of humility on the remain side and a failure to accept responsibility for their inability to effectively convey what they see as the benefits of EU membership, choosing instead to blame their woes on political opponents. I'm sorry, it does come across as moaning.

2 minutes ago, Rodders said:

I think that's the one point on which there is universal agreement in this thread. 

The question is whether people realise after Foot, Kinnock, Brown, Miliband and Corbyn...that Labour can’t win elections by trying to appeal to Labour voters. 

1 minute ago, LakotaDakota said:

Oh & #Corbynout is now trending

Maybe people the Labour party will realise now (to paraphrase a darts cliche)...

Twitter for show, ballots for dough! 

2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I'll be absolutely fine too. I have a good job, I will probably get my dual citizenship this year. But jesus christ, it isn't about me. It's about not killing the poor and disabled anymore. Enough.

Thank God you are saved from a Tory led U.K. by a PiS led Poland 

1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said:

Not only is it 'not as simple as that', but we have actual evidence from introducing, and then slowly increasing, the minimum wage, that it did not have any real measurable effect on inflation at all. 

That doesn't mean it couldn't, if a minimum wage increase were large enough, but it hasn't when we've done it before. 

Has it had a real measurable effect on living standards? 

4 minutes ago, hippo said:

The Exit polls have been very accurate in recent times though ? 

Yeah pretty good. Think I read this morning they were wrong in 1992 and 2015...when they predicted a hung parliament only for a tory majority to be returned. 

2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Lazy stereotypes about poor people. Pretty awful.

Whereas lazy stereotypes about tories, top class!

11 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

 

Has Gary Neville managed to work into this tweet a direct quote from the chapter in his autobiography about his managerial career?

5 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

been in the same boat for years, spoil it, take a bit black marker pen in there and scrawl none of the above or all liars or bunch of **** words removed on it

you're still merely a statistic but its better than the couldn't be bothered to vote statistic, wish more people did it, would be great if spoiled votes started beating candidates 

14 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

It always was like this though.

I can't tell you the amount of people I know that say they don't want to stop immigration, just want it controlled. When you ask where they want all the foreign workers we need to come from you get the predictable answers, Australia, NZ, Canada...maybe SA. So just the mainly white (with exception of SA, although they might just mean the whites? who knows?), former colonies then?

Shame that South Africa ruined your racism point. Of course people that are pro EU immigration are so because of all those EU countries with predominantly black populations? 

58 minutes ago, avfcDJ said:

Still haven't had my postal vote

I know in my constituency they are not sending them out until Monday so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

5 hours ago, BOF said:

On that note, I do often wonder when my second death will be.  By which I mean that moment in the future when someone mentions me for the last time ever.  I find that almost sadder than death itself.

Isn't that your third death?

12 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

Clever quip aside, that ad is absolutely vile.

Three happy white people in a hospital with a headline that more than suggests the issues with our NHS are down to all the foreign scum coming to live here.

Our government are a **** disgrace, and people who fall for this horseshit are just as bad.

I know we all see things through our own prism but when I saw that ad I took to mean ‘the points system will mean that the NHS will be able to fill staffing positions with people from anywhere in the world if demand requires’ not ‘we’re protecting the NHS by keeping foreigners out’. Almost the complete opposite!

Obviously I’m clueless as to desired meaning, or if it was deliberately meant to be carry a double meaning. I was surprised that two people could look at the same picture and take such different things from it though! 

17 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

?

Is that it? And by it, I mean the big reveal...the most revealing and damning paragraph in the document? If it is, no wonder journalists are still asking about anti-semitism!

35 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I'm a million different people from one day to the next but I'm here, in my mode.

About the best way I could describe myself, and yes, stolen from the Verve of course.

I always thought it was 'in my mould' or is it a song about statistics that has been going over my head all these years?

Old school for me, something that people can sing and shed a tear to!

1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Excuse my ignorance, but isn't that just a play off the Catalan colours? Seems okey to me. 

Absolutely, the Catalan flag itself being drawn from some legend about some dude getting shot (with an arrow), who after clutching his wound proceeded to make a grab for a yellow flag being held by the guy next to him before falling off his horse and dying! Only to leave the trace of his bloodied fingers on said flag.

Tensions are obviously running pretty high around Catalan independence at the moment and if rumours are to be believed, this shirt has been released with the sole intention of wearing it at the Bernebeu for El Classico as a show of solidarity with those who have been jailed for sedition. 

21 hours ago, mjmooney said:

I thought it was really excellent. I've seen reviews that criticised the love story/divorce/possibly gay scientist etc. themes as being merely political correctness to pander to modern sensibilities. Which is very wrong. These things were very much topical in the Edwardian era, and major themes in H. G. Wells's (non-SF) fiction. Totally appropriate to bring them into WotW. 

I haven't seen the show but this quote from one of said reviews did make me chuckle.

Quote

You might have thought the Martians laying waste to Surrey would temporarily occupy their thoughts, but amid all the carnage they don’t neglect their subplot. “I went to see my wife yesterday, to ask her to sign the divorce papers,” George says, while an extraterrestrial super-intelligence immolates the village around him. Talk about a stiff upper lip. 

3 minutes ago, rjw63 said:

Thought for a second this was Jeremy Corbyn at a PLO memorial service!