AstonMartyn88

Haven't read the whole thread yet. Do these shootings normally end in suicide? Thinking of the more infamous ones Columbine and Virginia Tech. I wonder if he'll have a 'manifesto' which would make it strange to target a cinema. Probably shouldn't speculate at this stage.

He's already in custody

I know. I'm suggesting that a person who goes on a rampage like this usually/often turns the gun on themselves. Him not doing this could point to another motivating factor, or not.

Ah, sorry - didn't think you knew he was in custody. Generally speaking yes they do (examples that immediately spring to mind are Raoul Moat, Derryck Bird, the Virginia Tech gunman and Columbine)

I would suspect he has a manifesto of some description or some sort of "mission" against authority as apparently the town is an army town?

Haven't read the whole thread yet. Do these shootings normally end in suicide? Thinking of the more infamous ones Columbine and Virginia Tech. I wonder if he'll have a 'manifesto' which would make it strange to target a cinema. Probably shouldn't speculate at this stage.

He's already in custody

Do we know anything yet about James Holmes ethnicity or class or upbringing ?

BBC reporting he's a 24 year old White American who was studying a PhD in Medicinal Science at Detroit School of Medicine I believe

I thought it was this

Chemical unbalance=Mental health issue

Brainwashing someone to do what you want=Religion

No, in your latter scenario the health of their mental state is still compromised and could be seen as unhealthy. Hell, loneliness can affect your 'mental health'. It is a very fragile thing. It doesn't need to be an imbalance or a design flaw. A person's situation can and does affect their mental health.

Again, it's difficult to pinpoint what causes what.

There's an arguement to say genetic vulnerability + social environment + trigger = mental health problem (particularly with schizophrenia)

Likewise, as BOF says a trigger on its' own can cause a perceived mental health problem. I worked with someone who had no social life and as a result was suffering what was diagnosed as "Depression with Anxiety", they were referred to a befriending service and lo and behold, the diagnosis was removed.

Interestingly I just spotted this on the BBC's live text coverage:

"1631: The Associated Press confirms with a university spokeswoman that James Holmes [the person arrested] was a student at University of Colorado Denver School of Medicine, and that he withdrew in June."

What distinguishes someone with a mental health problem from someone who has their perception of the world skewed to such an extent that they believe murdering a group of innocent people is their only course of action?

Religion?

Exactly the problem. It is difficult to identify at what point a mental illness can be used as an explanation for someone's actions, or if it is something else, like for example brainwashing etc. Fact is it's very difficult to pinpoint.

The state of your mental health can't be too great if you do something like this. He might or he mightn't fall into some convenient industry category. But there was a screw of some description loose in order for him to do what he did here.

I would suggest there's a form of psychopathy involved judging by the way the attack was carried out and the ongoing aftermath.

At thirty-eight, Kiehl is one of the world’s leading younger investigators in psychopathy, the condition of moral emptiness that affects between fifteen to twenty-five per cent of the North American prison population, and is believed by some psychologists to exist in one per cent of the general adult male population. (Female psychopaths are thought to be much rarer.) Psychopaths don’t exhibit the manias, hysterias, and neuroses that are present in other types of mental illness. Their main defect, what psychologists call “severe emotional detachment”—a total lack of empathy and remorse—is concealed, and harder to describe than the symptoms of schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. This absence of easily readable signs has led to debate among mental-health practitioners about what qualifies as psychopathy and how to diagnose it. Psychopathy isn’t identified as a disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the American Psychiatric Association’s canon; instead, a more general term, “antisocial personality disorder,” known as A.P.D., covers the condition.

Click for full article

Working in mental health, I hate how people instantly jump to the conclusion that perpetrators of these kinds of appalling acts have a mental health problem. This is why there's such a stigma around mental health and why people are so afraid to seek help when they are suffering with a mental health problem, because they are afraid they will get lumped in with the minority who achieve notoriety through appalling actions and subsequent blaming of mental health.

If that was at me, then sorry for the confusion. I was questioning the industry, the doctors and the healthsystem...not the patients.

No no not aimed at you, just a general lamenting of the stigma surrounding mental health

Working in mental health, I hate how people instantly jump to the conclusion that perpetrators of these kinds of appalling acts have a mental health problem. This is why there's such a stigma around mental health and why people are so afraid to seek help when they are suffering with a mental health problem, because they are afraid they will get lumped in with the minority who achieve notoriety through appalling actions and subsequent blaming of mental health.

I would suggest that until anything concrete is said by the authorities, and the perpetrator has had a psychiatric assessment this is as much the work of a person without a mental health problem as much as someone with a mental health problem.

If someone's overmedicated, particularly with anti-depressants they wouldn't be able to do something like this due to the side effects. In addition, people with mental health problems focus more on hurting themselves than others.

However, if say someone had a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia which was poorly controlled, and Batman formed a part of their delusion then who knows, maybe they could do something like this.

The fact is, at this point we just don't know, so let's leave labelling and guesswork out of it, and focus on sending our support and best wishes to those who simply went to a film premiere and won't be coming home at all, or have had their lives changed forever

I did my two weeks in the ticket office at Villa. Really thought it would be quiet and easy since it was June. Definitely got a shock but absolutely loved it.

On a less happy note, I got mugged, it was on the road next to The Adventurers walking back to the bus stop one afternoon after work

United away I have a funny feeling might just be the Boxing Day fixture :/

I read a couple of years ago on how they generate the fixtures. Generally they try to pair teams together whose cities have good transport connections on Bank Holidays to make it easier for fans to travel so I suspect it'll either be a Manchester team or one of the big London teams away on Boxing Day.

Having said that I'd rather have United away at some point in August, just to get it out of the way

http://tinyurl.com/SecretsOfTheFixures

Just for you

It wasn't that one, but interesting nonetheless. Thanks

United away I have a funny feeling might just be the Boxing Day fixture :/

I read a couple of years ago on how they generate the fixtures. Generally they try to pair teams together whose cities have good transport connections on Bank Holidays to make it easier for fans to travel so I suspect it'll either be a Manchester team or one of the big London teams away on Boxing Day.

Having said that I'd rather have United away at some point in August, just to get it out of the way

107s and Sparks are both absolutely vile cars. Get a 1.2 Corsa

I've signed up for the half marathon in Birmingham in October and I've got no experience of running. I'm 23 and in ok shape. I've got all the gear (decent running shoes, garmin forerunner, baselayers, running socks) but struggling to run far. I've done 2 miles 3 times in the last 2 weeks. What should I am to do? 2 runs a week? I've gotta be realistic.

Also noticing I feel pain down the back of my leg towards the heel and that slows me down a lot more than fatigue!

HELP lol

With the pain down the back of the leg make sure you're stretching properly before you go out on the run. Simple advice but I never used to and now it's like a religion for me.

I did the Great Midlands Fun Run on Sunday, knocked 7 mins off my

PB to do it in 80mins. And I'm a fat **** so was delighted. Only problem now is I have terrible pain on the outside of my left foot - is it just bruising or could it be a fracture??

Richard, do you think we will sell Bent?

My post about backing him was just that, don't read anything into it that may or.may not be there

I just wanted to point out how much I back the guy, no need to set hares running quite yet!

Marlon's coming back

I have to drop out, can't get the time off work

Absolutely worship Lindsey Buckingham, does not get the recognition he deserves IMO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC3XKun0dGY.

Think we're talking direct from the delivery of a corner rather than a short corner routine.

On a side note that was the day I lost all interest in our season

I'm in a funny old mood tonight so:

Followed by

I was there sat amongst the United fans unfortunately.

A few observations:

1) The penalty looked stonewall from where I was sat, high in the gods behind the penalty area that it was conceded in. However having seen the replays my hatred for Ashley Young just grows everytime I see it now.

2) We looked absolutely devoid of any ideas, spark, movement.

3) I was a big fan of Gardner & Bannan but I am starting to question if they're really good enough at the moment. I still believe given time they will come good

4) Carruthers looks useful but let's not start hyping him up the way we have with other promising youth players () e.g. Bannan, Gardner). He will come good given time

5) Putting the Villa fans way up in the gods trashed the atmosphere, Old Trafford is not what it was & my mate who used to go home and away with United can't stand going to OT anymore as it's just full of day trippers expecting champagne football and 5,6,7-0 victories

6) United fans are the ficklest bunch of fans around, 3-0 up and some of them were booing when they lost the ball and saying they were shite.

7) United fans around me were saying that Villa were the worst team they had seen at OT this season.

8) Bolton is a critical game now even more so if Wigan get anything at Arsenal which isn't out of the realms of possibility

People walking through supermarket aisles with trolleys who stop stone dead in the middle of the aisle for no discernable reason. I had to go to ASDA on Friday and it was like the apocalypse was coming. So many people stopping in the aisles for no reason I was ready to kill by the time I got to the checkout

It probably will though I'm sure somewhere in Bodymoor/VP this exact discussion is going on at the moment

Times like this nothing else matters, everyone's thoughts should be with Stan.

Working nights I have dug out old DVD boxsets - started with The West Wing again. I am convinced it's the best TV show ever. Also, Community is an absolute gem that would be a tragedy if it were to be cancelled

FWIW My expertise is mostly mental health - I have a Psychology degree and work in a 24 hour intensive support house for people going through mental health crisis

Who is left back?

Heskey, obviously