avfc1982am

If you want to make your point then just dont go to VP and part with your hard earned cash to watch us fail to score again, dont take a bed sheet or a crappy banner, they are embarrassing, small time and never work anyway.

Like your profile pic?!

Sorry fella, couldn't resist.

 

 

We have pretty much no natural wide players, and the ones he puts on the flanks always tend to find their way closer to the middle as soon as the game starts.

Add to that that we have very little movement and play at a slow passing pace we are the easiest team to defend against in top flight football.

This is the issue. When you're playing non-wingers as wingers, and don't carry any kind of threat from the middle, you're not hard to figure out. Dangerous wide players are needed as much for what they do when the ball isn't near them as what they do when it is

 

Yup

Take a player like Robben who often tries to move as close to the touchline as possible to find room for himself to recieve a pass stretch the defence and to have open space to utilize his pace and technique to take on the defenders.

 

Gabby & Andi on the other hand seem to wan't to be as close the goal as possible and thus forcing Cissokho and Hutton to cover the whole flanks making us easy to defend against and forcing our midfielders to stay back and cover the space left behind on the rare occations the fullbacks move across the halfway line.

 

It's fundamentally flawed

 

Now were getting somewhere!!! This is and has been exactly what the issue is with the formation and players in it. The problem is we have no natural width and neither GA or AW stretch the fullbacks to create space in the middle for the 3 to move into, they're too busy drifting into the middle themselves and closing the spaces instead of expanding them. They are the wrong type of players for the system. Width and movement have been the biggest issues in the last 2 and a half years under lambert in my opinion.

I think now is definitely the right time to sack him. We have a good chance of getting no points from our next 3-5 games given current form and the opposition. I think we should use the next few weeks to find a new appointment. Once january is out the way if we are around the relegation zone it will be harder to convince someone to come in and sort out the mess, especially without the opportunity to at least bring in 1 or 2 loan signings or assistants.

No amount of stats, records etc thrown at me could change my view that Lambert has had an horrendous time of it working under Lerner and Faulkner. (Can't comment on Fox yet)

 

If (when) Lambert gets sacked, his career will be lost in the managerial wilderness just as it has been with Gregory, O'Leary, O'Neill and McLeish. Are you telling me that all of those names plus Lambert are completely clueless, inept managers? No chance, not having it. 

 

This is an absolutely impossible club to manage given the expectations placed on the guy, coupled with the support he gets from above and from the crowd.

 

There is no way this club can have designs on the top 4/5 any more, not with the squads and finances we are competing against the way they are. Then the next expectation is that we should at least be a solid top half team capable of threatening to win a trophy - again a pretty impossible ask in this climate, unless we would match/out-gun the spending power of those around us, which we have failed to do for almost 3 years now.

 

Lambert came here with a fantastic record, and the reputation as a guy who could work on a budget with young players. He was the right choice at the time. It hasn't worked out for him, and he has admittedly set some bad bad records and made some horrible mistakes in his time here. Those will probably be the reasons he is sacked.

 

Then the vicious circle will start again. Fans will be boosted by news of his sacking, flood social media and such with positive comments about new appointments and someone will come in with a welcome. Then the guy will struggle in the tough, unforgiving lion's den of the Premier League with no backing and discontented fans, and another 2/3 years will have gone.

 

No manager can win at this club.  

In response to your post which certain points are fair comment, especially about the backing recieved. The managers you mentioned all lost their way in some form. The merry-go-round you talk about happens at most clubs up and down the leagues. And of the managers you mentioned which one went on to bigger and better things if indeed they were that great? Managers peak(or not) and then stagnate, fluctuate etc. Some clubs their methods work others they don't. Most of the time though there will come a point when things have gone far enough and it's time for a change or the manager moves on to a better job. All clubs go through this and we are no different what we should be doing as a club is have some clear idea as to the model we want to create, regardless of manager.

As far as Villa and Lambert are concered It's time to part ways regardless of the future because if we continue with him as manager it may not be in the premier league. Nobody expects top 4 or 5 currently but what we do expect is to witness decent football befitting the stadium and fans who pay bloody good money to be entertained to a point.Lambert has had more than enough time to at least improve the quality of football yet here we still are. All this talk about changing the style of play is a myth in my opinion, the formation and players are excactly the same the only difference is we are holding the ball more yet still have no idea what to do with it. He needs to go end of imo and the fans need to force his hand to leave or increase the media pressure.

 

 

Ha I can understand people being Pissed off and wanting Lambert gone but I think all the hate and protests would be better directed towards Randy Lerner, he really does get away with murder from the majority of fans. So let's say he sacks Lambert and gets in a replacement who is given the same budget and we are struggling still. Does the new manager have to take all the hate and protests then or does Lerner finally get what he deserves from the fans?

I think there are many of us who believe Lambert has assembled a decent squad with the funds he has had. A team that is capable of much more positive football than on display. Therefore for me Randy Lerner isn't to blame for the lack of decent football at VP, Lambert is. Lerner isn't faultless though but currently we have no sway with him staying or going, we do however have a big say over Lambert continuing in his role.

Fair enough I just struggle to see any good way out under Lerner and would be more worried about who he would get to replace Lambert than sticking with Lambert.

 

Hopefully the good way out under Lerner will be selling us to an ambitious owner in the future. The time for worrying about who will replace Lambert is gone imo, and the reason for that is because what are we really replacing? Lets be fair here, we aren't excactly lighting up the division with attacking football and just unlucky. We are boring the shit out of anyone who bothers to watch us, we are fast becoming the easy touch for teams, and we are whether people like it or not, sinking under Lambert.

We have nothing to lose anymore! And I honestly believe any fresh change of manager will improve us from our current position. With the 3 games we have coming up I would sacrifice the results and use the time to seek out alternative solutions if not done already. I would at this point rather go down fighting than watch on idle not reacting to the situation.

I think any decent manager out there would look at the club and the playing staff and believe they could do better than the current shambes and increase their own stock in the process. Even if only for the short to medium term.

Ha I can understand people being Pissed off and wanting Lambert gone but I think all the hate and protests would be better directed towards Randy Lerner, he really does get away with murder from the majority of fans. So let's say he sacks Lambert and gets in a replacement who is given the same budget and we are struggling still. Does the new manager have to take all the hate and protests then or does Lerner finally get what he deserves from the fans?

I think there are many of us who believe Lambert has assembled a decent squad with the funds he has had. A team that is capable of much more positive football than on display. Therefore for me Randy Lerner isn't to blame for the lack of decent football at VP, Lambert is. Lerner isn't faultless though but currently we have no sway with him staying or going, we do however have a big say over Lambert continuing in his role.

 

 

we've been here before though and nothing happens, it feels like even relegation wouldn't get Lambert sacked!

The one hope is that he is still yet to really get the 'McLeish treatment' from the home fans. If that starts happening, then it might even make his position untenable in the eyes of the board.

 

 

I'd imagine that is not too far away. I said last night that the Liverpool game is the worst possible game Lambert could have at home. This isn't a geat Liverpool side by any stretch of the imagination but one that given our current run of poor form and clueless approach then it is a game we are very unlikely to get anything from. Being Liverpool and a 3pm Saturday kick off it will be a big crowd in VP and I fear come full time or even during the final embers of the game then Lambert will be getting dogs abuse and feel the full wrath of a Villa Park crowd just as McLeish did agaisnt Bolton. Whether that will be enough to put the final nail in his coffin is up for debate but for what it is worth then I believe it could well be.

 

I hope your right Mark. I feel is very much make or break now. Unlike the last 2 years the lack of goals or creativity this season is a real cause for concern. IMO we will be lucky to get 30 goals after 38 games(19 in 17 games) which for any team is poor, no matter what the circumstances.

I believe we have got to the stage now where the time for discussing Lamberts failings as our manager has passed. It's all about quick decisive action now in order to steady what is becoming a very rocky situation. Flirting with relegation year after year will lead to only one outcome imo.

Viable means feasible. It isn't feasible that Lambert is going to get sacked by Lerner.

I know what viable means and for what it's worth I feel it is the only practical solution to our situation. The only way it wouldn't be feasible for Lerner to sack him would be the cost of the contract nothing else.

 

Are there people seriously thinking Lambert can steer us out of this ?

11 goals all season is the killer stat - the way we are going we will lucky to end up with 20 goals

We won't stay up scoring 20 goals..

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting he can, they are hoping he can because he is going to be the one attempting to do it. All people are doing is looking for viable solutions to our current situation.

 

I think the most viable solution to improve our situation is to get rid of Lambert sharpish. I have no faith that given more money he will improve our fortunes on the pitch. If he can't find a system after 3 years to get the best out of what we've got I doubt with another 10-20mil things will improve. He's had most of his players available now for quite some time yet he is still failing dramatically to get them playing anything like decent football.

Looking at him today, he looked very sombre on the bench and the fact he didn't make a change until the 70min suggest's to me he is fast running out of ideas of what to do. IMO he is cleary out of his depth, something which was quite evident last season and should've been addressed by the owner. Also I'm not down with the arguement that he hasn't had enough money, because for me money doesn't buy organisation, discipline, formations, tactical knowledge etc. Lambert is failing in all these departments and has done for quite a while.

IMO though, and I may get slaughtered for this from some quarters. WE the fans are partially to blame for this mess. We have been far too soft and patient with Lambert regardless of the financial situation and shouldv'e reacted far sooner to the bullshit on the pitch. If thing's do continue like this over the next couple of weeks without the fans turning on mass then unfortunately we deserve everything we get for allowing this to continue without opposing it.

I personally don't agree with slaughtering people for no reason but I am a firm believer in standing up and saying enough is enough when what I care about is mistreated/mismanaged. This time is now and should happen against Liverpool next week regardless of the consequences in the game! Lambert out before it is too late!!

Bournemouth would be a good draw. Maybe Lambert could have a chat with Eddie Howe after the game and get some tips about developing a passing game with end product.

You clever lad!

Villa were not counter attacking under McLeish. Under McLeish Villa barely attacked at all. There is no valid comparison between the two sides except to say they're not very good.

@ dont_do_it_doug. Ok, maybe mirrored was the wrong term. But there are certainly simularities with the lack of ideas and movement in attack. More concerned with stopping the opposition rather than taking the game to them. I think it's very valid to suggest there are comparisons especially as you can't really argue that for the majority of Lambert's time here we haven't attacked very much either.

@ DK82. I also said not in formation and players. I never suggested for one minute Mcleish and Lambert were comparable in transfers.

Bacuna is not a naturally defensive player no.

I didn't say he was. I think I suggested he wasn't(IMO) regardless of where he has played. Although it's not completely ridiculous for someone to suggest he is or that he has been used defensively for the majority of his time here. Up to now.

 

 

 

Jesus Christ is that 7/10 outfield defenders I count in McLeish's final game?

And Given!!!

 

Yes. Yes it is.

 

And do you remember the stick he got for that? Or has that conveniently slipped your mind?

No it hasn't but I think the comparison between how Lambert plays and how McLeish played laughable to be honest especially when you try and claim Bacuna as a defensive player.

 

Can't agree with the bold Trent. For the majority of the last 2.5 years under Lambert we have virtually mirrored Mcleish. Not in formation and players obviously but the style hasn't been that different. Both have adopted a style that has been more to stop the opposition rather than take the game to them. Under both the villa have been a defensive counter attacking team with very few ideas in attack.

Without looking a the stats(forgive me) I would give a confident guess that since Bacuna joined us he has for the most part played as a fullback(epecially last season) due to the issues at rightback with Lowton?! Is Bacuna really a defensive player? I think we all know the real answer to that though regardless of where he has played, however you could claim he is or has been mainly used in this role. 

He's settling quicker and better than some of our home grown players. Looking a proper player now. I would though like to see how he plays in a midfield four, in an attempt to reduce the numbers in the middle for certain games in order to give more width to the formation. We are far too congested in the middle at times and not exploiting the wider areas.

 

 

 

 

 

his post match comments about how pleased he is with himself and the way the team is playing is why I want him gone....born loser.

 

No offence, but kinda sick of the newbie brigade signed up to post Lambert out. 

 

 

We ain't being relegated, he's keeping his job until we get new owners so please. Give it a rest. 

 

As Amed has been a member since October 2006 how long do you have to be on VT before you consider someone to be a veteran?

 

 

87 posts? There's rakes of the faceless all posting only in here, Lambert out etc..

 

*yawn*

 

New owners, then new manager. Until then give over on wanting the manager sacked while we sit 12th in the League. 

 

I wasn't aware that there was an annual quota of posts.

 

 

Contribute when times are good, or just turn up to moan. 

 

Just saying who's posts I (and tbh probably lots of others) bother reading because you know a bit about the overall views of the poster. 

 

Faceless turning up to post Lambert out is *yawn* 

 

Maybe the person who has only posted 87 times has more of a life outside of VT than say..someone who has posted over 10,000 times?!

I have also not posted as much as some, but still read and post when I have something I want to share or involve myself in. This is one of those occassions. I have read a few of your posts since being a member on VT and quite frankly the majority are a little *Yawn!

 

Personally I think the more likely outcome if Lambert gets sacked would be Keane taking over as caretaker until the end of the season.

Me too.

 

And i think that this is the main reason Keane took the job as assistant in the first place

 

Me too. I think he would have seen the mess the club was in and at the very least thought there may be an opportunity at some point to get a decent club job. R Keane will not be happy being a number 2 to any manager for too long.

We'd be playing in a lower league right now with mcleish at the helm

 We may well be playing in a lower league this time next year with Lambert at the helm.

Personally I think the more likely outcome if Lambert gets sacked would be Keane taking over as caretaker until the end of the season.

 

 

but I think that just staying up whilst playing entertaining football would be sufficient for "most" fans.

 

 

Repeating myself a bit but I don't think a lot of fans know what they want with regards to entertaining football.

 

At a match, if we are playing with a bit of confidence, they're spreading it around nicely, building up and keeping possession, there inevitably comes a time where you have to turn and go backwards. At that exact point half of the stadium starts jeering about 'getting it forward' and '**** hell' because from a promising position we've been forced all the way back to the keeper.

 

So when a defender has the option of either playing a slightly risky pass back into midfield while under pressure, or going 'safe' by just hoofing it up, they're always going to choose the latter when most fans applaud them for doing so.

 

So fans say they want good quality possession, but actually want long ball kick and rush. Or least they reward the players for playing that way.

 

With regards to your point. I understand what your trying to get at but the truth is the fans don't jeer because the ball goes backwards they jeer because we are predictable! We play sideways, sideways some more, pass it back to guzan.. and hoof! No one in all the time I've been going down VP has ever applauded Villa for continually hoofing the ball. That's just nonsense.

 

 

I honestly believe we deserved a point vs West Ham due to how hard we battled and we defended well, I believe we deserved at least a point vs Spurs and most likely would of won if Benteke stayed on and I think we were unlucky to lose to Qpr as they basically took their only chance of the first half and we gifted them the second.

Always

I honestly believe we deserved a point vs West Ham due to how hard we battled and we defended well, I believe we deserved at least a point vs Spurs and most likely would of won if Benteke stayed on and I think we were unlucky to lose to Qpr as they basically took their only chance of the first half and we gifted them the second.

I always remember the Aussies in 2005 celebrating the draw at old Trafford as being the moment we finally knew we'd recapture the ashes.

Winners win. Losers talk about how they nearly won,or could've won,or should've won,and celebrate draws.

I see the Southampton game has joined the list of those it is OK to lose.....

 

We battled hard in the 3 games I'm referring to and could easily of picked up more than 1 point, that's the main point I'm trying to make. People are making out like we have been terrible in every game and deserved to lose them all which is complete crap imo and an over reaction just to justify their opinion of Lambert.  

 

Personally I think most people/fans have built up their opinions based on the last 2 years plus, not 3 games. As for the 3 games the thing is we didn't win any of them though?! Sometimes terrible doesn't have to come into it. If something isn't working, it needs repairing or replacing. Lambert can't repair! At least not well enough to perform for any length of time before breaking down again.