suttonpaul

Mostly Benteke when he's fully fit and firing.

Win and we would have been level with utd lose and getting relegated.

LOL

Read some posts we may have lost a handful of games in a row and not even scored but to go on about relegation after considering the run of games is pure stupidity.

Worry about that if the form continues for a few more

Randy Lerner is like a chameleon he has changed...The first 4 years were very much different from the last 4 years....The first 4 were not austerity....the second 4 years was and very much as a result of the problems attributed to buying and selling of players in the that period.

If I was comparing Aston villa with Everton.....I would be more inclined to attribute their success over us on the basis of their managers than the owners. If you say that they have spent more on individuals than us, you would be right.... but is that due to the prudency of the managers sales or the chairmans pocket?

No I know that the first 4 years weren't but as I've already stated, it was the lack of financial control in those years by Lerner that set the conditions under which the managers were forced to work for the next 4 years. Terrible management of the club by Lerner.

That means Moyes was provided with a far more stable environment in which a football club could be built.

Yes the success Everton had on the pitch was down to Moyes but I'm baffled how anyone can't see the different between how Everton and Villa have been run and the fact that it has a barring on what happens on the football side of the club.

You talk about prudence of managers but it isn't for managers to budget/set budgets that is for those above them, if you keep giving any manager money he is likely to go and spend it unless its Wenger obviously.

Yes our managers have wasted money compared to Moyes but that is going to happen when you chop and change players and when you lurch in styles of manager from O'Neill to Houllier to McLeish.

Great discussion lads. Hopefully we are at the start of a diiferent 4 year cycle with the lessons learnt from the previous 2!

We are in a place where the same money can be spent as the last few seasons but on less players

which leads you nicely back to the question of differing incomes and FFP rules which is why it is so important

Randy Lerner is like a chameleon he has changed...The first 4 years were very much different from the last 4 years....The first 4 were not austerity....the second 4 years was and very much as a result of the problems attributed to buying and selling of players in the that period.

If I was comparing Aston villa with Everton.....I would be more inclined to attribute their success over us on the basis of their managers than the owners. If you say that they have spent more on individuals than us, you would be right.... but is that due to the prudency of the managers sales or the chairmans pocket?

Definitely the manager

We can't keep talking about this it is OT

So you can't charge more for a ticket in London?

So players don't want to live in London rather than Birmingham?

Potential owners aren't interested in London over other cities?

You deny that for teams outside the champions league such as ourselves and palace the largest part of their revenue by a long way is premier league TV money therefore making us more or less financially the same?

No I didn't think so

Some of you may want to see where our income comes from, the vast vast majority of it is TV income which is the same income Palace get.

You may see us as much bigger than a Palace or West Brom but the reality is we generate only a few million more per year than these clubs.

Palace has more potential in these modern days.

 

I watched that game we were shite and it's best I have ever seen Chelsea play that's why it was 8

1 point off 6th after playing all the top teams this many games in I would have took that on the first day of the season.

People are going over the top

Well, the first link explains what counts as incomings and outgoings for FFP purposes. It is NOT just a club's balance sheet, a lot of expenditure is not counted towards FFP at all.

Add to that the fact that a club can lose 45E mil over 3 years and not face any sanctions .... getting back into Europe by spending big and not getting fines is clearly possible.

Ash - read the articles you posted in conjunction with Villa's accounts.

Villa can't spend anymore than our current levels without breaking Uefa FFP.

and you have also forgotten about Prem League FFP which is more stringent.

Also, even without those 2 issues, you are saying we could spend £12m (15mill Euros) per season more.

Thats hardly sugar daddy spending. £12m wouldn't even buy 1 top player.

Your point is correct but you mixed up Uefa and Premier League rules. Uefa is more stringent and the ones we need to adhere to because if we did do the Premier League rules we would be a lot more successful and then fall foul of the Uefa rules and get fined.

I don't understand why people still can't understand how it relates to lerners policy

Have you seen our three year losses?

Give Lambert a decent war chest just like the MON days and we will claw our way back to where we do belong.

FFP doesn't allow this anymore.

Sorry, but that just isn't true. FFP is not as simple as some headlines make it out to be - although a lengthy and possibly boring read, this might help with your understanding of FFP http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/uefaorg/Clublicensing/01/50/09/12/1500912_DOWNLOAD.pdf

EDIT: Found this site which makes it MUCH easier to understand!! http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/financial-fair-play-explained.php

Yea the very link you posted proves his point

The premier league rules are pointless. What the point of spending PL FFP money if you don't reach Europe and then are under Uefa rules?

Answer = Zero

He's alright the way we play nothing better in an old 4-4-2 he would have been really good but alas no one plays that way anymore

If we'd have sorted Vlaar and Delph's contracts earlier, it is likely that those two along with maybe Westwood and Benteke would end up being sold on for a fair bit of profit - this would mean we'd be able to bring in better players, like Everton or Southampton as mentioned above.

Unfortunately now, if either Vlaar or Delph do sign new deals, we won't be selling them next summer. If we don't sign them up, they leave for free. This is a problem that has come from the top down, we know the manager wanted the deals done, we also know that Tom Fox wants them done now. So who is to blame, Lerner? Faulkner? I guess ultimately the blame lies with Lerner, two of our major 'assets' have improved incredibly on the pitch but have reduced in value because their deals are running out.

I blame Faulkner. There was more to him leaving than we know.

As I say, ultimately it is down to Lerner, but I also think that Faulkner leaving has more behind it than we know.

Nah Lerner approves all spending think of it like this even Doug would never have allowed that to happen

If we'd have sorted Vlaar and Delph's contracts earlier, it is likely that those two along with maybe Westwood and Benteke would end up being sold on for a fair bit of profit - this would mean we'd be able to bring in better players, like Everton or Southampton as mentioned above.

Unfortunately now, if either Vlaar or Delph do sign new deals, we won't be selling them next summer. If we don't sign them up, they leave for free. This is a problem that has come from the top down, we know the manager wanted the deals done, we also know that Tom Fox wants them done now. So who is to blame, Lerner? Faulkner? I guess ultimately the blame lies with Lerner, two of our major 'assets' have improved incredibly on the pitch but have reduced in value because their deals are running out.

I completely agree with this Lerner is totally to blame on the contracts.

Not spending in transfers is one thing not resigning your best players is another

Lol 40m that's hilarious as if

As long as he is excited and enthused enough to give a shit and invest some dosh into us and leave the running of the club to those that know better it doesnt bother me. We have a better man running us now than we have for a while and someone in charge of the team who needs decent backing.

Randy has always invested what is allowed into the club he can't just whack 30m on the table now due to rules it will be a couple of years for that even if he has the will as FFP works of a combined 3 year loss

I can't see how fan ownerships would work in the premier league as much as it's a romantic idea. Yes maybe you could reel in enough wealthy fans/fanbase to get a takeover....but what happens afterwards and then having to pump 50-100m for transfers and to remain competitive in the premier league season in season out.

That will be the demand from the fans who haven't put their money in and we've seen where 20m net a season gets us in the last 4 years.

Lower down it works because obviously the finances aren't as obscene in covering wages and spending money on transfer fees but I think it's a forlorn hope in the PL personally.

Please explain how we can spend 50 to 100m a year regardless who is the owner

He needs more time he is just back in training from a very serious injury

Seeing that a massive amount of Villa fans moan about the season ticket prices despite being some of the cheapest in the league, I very much doubt we could the dough together.

Yep moan about prices and want way more than what's paid for in a lot of cases

This whole thing about if someone who isn't super rich buys us and throws money at us he is a bad owner is so 2010 you guys want to look up the rules of the game.

Newsflash! They changed.

We need to be run well now we have no chance of buying our way to success.

Deal with that fact in your mind

I highly doubt he has halved his valuation whatever that valuation may be.

I like to be more in the know than all the people at our club currently do.

With interviews like that I'd rather not have an interview at all

Never heard of him