NeilS

Whoop we scored a goal.

Just now, rjw63 said:

Four subs , none of them Villans.

Why bother picking them at all you big nosed saddle sniffing sperm receptacle

I am partly gutted for Ezri and Ollie that they haven’t been given a chance, but also partly relieved they have had a rest and not associated with this £uc@in@ awful performance.

2 minutes ago, Zero7 said:

Think they will survive as there is some right dross in the bottom half this season 

Agree, they have timed it right to receive their penalty. Last season and they would have been doomed, but this season the other teams are partcularly poor and Everton are picking up enough results under Dyche as well, so I think they will still be fine this season.

4 minutes ago, colhint said:

I don't know this bit, but as Legia beat us by one goal, what happens if we beat them by two. Is that it or does goal difference then come into it? Or is it we won the head to head we come top.

If we win by two goals we win the group as it is based on head to head results. Do we avoid a couple of extra matches if we win the group, or do we just play team from the Conference league instead?

We can also rotate against Mostar if we have the group sewn up by then, which will be additional rest for those who need it.

Congratulations to Ezri, a well deserved call up on his form over the last twelve months. He has really matured into a fine centre back, who looks comfortable with the ball.

4 minutes ago, El Segundo said:

Not really, the law is pretty clear and I don't really see any room for interpretation.  You could argue the law doesn't make sense, but that's a different argument.  The only way Bailey would not have been offside, according to the law, would have been had he been behind the ball when Ollie headed it towards goal (not when the defender saves it).  From what I saw, he wasn't, he was right on the goal line.  

Ok fair enough, so they need to simplify the rule for the fans and referees in a match situation as there are quite a few people including the referees who are confused by it. Which is not good for the game.
 

For example say a player is standing goal side of the last defender when his teammate last touches the ball, he cannot be onside for a minimum of 10 seconds, that means no touching the ball or moving towards it. The offside would have been given, or the ball would have gone out of play, or the defender or an onside player get opportunity to play the ball. That takes out the need for interpretation and hopefully keeps the game flowing. 

1 hour ago, Enda said:

My reading was:

- The “shot” is cleared off the line. By this point Bailey is offside because the keeper had strayed a yard out.

- The “save” is by the defender who never gains control of the ball, so it’s like a keeper pushing the ball away.

- Bailey receives the ball, as if he’d been offside from a shot and scored from the rebound. We’d all call that offside.

On the one hand, it’s madness. On the other hand, you have to hand it to the linesman. That’s US Supreme Court level of argument right there.

Haha, yeah you could argue both sides of this and be correct. We will be going round in circles on this one depending on your interpretation/viewpoint.

5 minutes ago, Enda said:

Behind the keeper though, wasn’t he?

I’m going to be Mr Unpopular here and say our offside goal was a bloody fantastic call by the linesman. I never would have reached his conclusion. I always think of “last man behind the ball” as the last defender but, in this specific moment, the keeper and the defender on the line have essentially switched places. Very good officiating to notice that, even if it’s a decision against us.

I need to see it again from a better angle, but if Bailey is not on the goal side of the defender as the defender heads it he can’t be offside, same as if a team mate pulls the ball back to him. I think the ruling was made from Watkins header rather than the defender header, I don’t know if that is correct method anymore. 

6 hours ago, Zatman said:

Van der Ven is a huge blow and its them losing Mings. He doesnt have the same brain but is faster than Mings

Worse loss than Maddison

Yes VdV. does look lightning quick from the clips I have seen. The timing of the loss isn’t great for them either, but for us the loss of Mings was bad due to the type of injury and the loss of Mings as a leader/character in the squad.

Maddison out until January now confirmed, that will be a big blow for them. He has started the season well for them, and contributed well to their creativity.

Losing Van der Ven for a while at the same time. Not quite as catastrophic as us losing Mings and Buendia for the season before it really started though. Although we had the transfer window open to try and cover the losses.

Maddison out until January according to the BBC

James Maddison has been ruled out until January with an ankle injury, Tottenham boss Ange Postecoglou has confirmed.

He sustained the injury in Tottenham's chaotic 4-1 defeat by Chelsea in the Premier League on Monday.

"Fair to say a fair bit happened after Monday," said Postecoglou, who revealed defender Micky van de Ven would also be out until the new year.

edit. I see it has already been discussed on earlier page. I am a bit late with the news. 

I am glad to read these thoughts on here today, there was a guy sat in the row behind me last night who was moaning to his mate for most of the match about Tielemans so I was beginning to doubt myself. I thought overall he had played pretty well. He made some clever passes, tracked back when needed, and drove the ball forward from midfield fairly well in my opinion. I am glad I am not losing it just yet!

Anyway, I thought Lenglet and Carlos looked a very decent partnership last night. We are well covered in that department for now.

My only concern was Lenglet caught out for the goal by the ball around the side of him, he has a warning a few minutes earlier which we got away with. I will cut him some slack though as he hasn’t played much, and even the best get caught out occasionally.

Just now, Vive_La_Villa said:

Wait are we saying a player clearing off the line isn’t the same as a goalie making a save?

I am saying it should be the same, and it is the same, but the rules have been put in place that a deliberate attempt to play the ball by the defender makes Bailey onside again. It is a stupid rule, because if the goalie saved it and falls to a player in an offside position for a tap in that should/would be ruled out. They have tinkered so much with offside rule to get it right, but there will always be a scenario where it is wrong.

53 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Like I said in the other thread if the keeper saved it would it be classed as a deliberate act and still be offside? 

No

The defender hasn't deliberately played the ball

They've **** it big time, forget VAR the rules are terrible 

You are right, I had the same conversation with my Dad on the way out of the ground. By the letter of the law he is onside as in my opinion the defender makes a purposeful header, but the rule is broken as if the goalie saves it and it falls to him he would be classed as offside. They have tinkered so much with the rules over the years, that it makes no sense. It is so confusing, and there is always a scenario where the rule is a joke.

22 minutes ago, AV82 said:

Can anyone explain how it wasn't offside?

The AZ defender cleared the initial header  off the line, which is a deliberate act so Bailey cannot be offside. 

45 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Have a feeling we will go weaker tonight as emeey night think our 2nd team can get job done after 1st game. Personally i dont want to take that risk AZ are not a bad team. We should go strong get a good lead then take off players and see the game out

Yeah I have the same gut feeling. Like you say, I would want to try and get the job done first and rest up later.

I remember AZ missing a couple of really good opportunities at their place which could have altered the final outcome of the match if they had stuck them away, so they still carry a threat and shouldn't be taken lightly.

If we are adamant on rotating a few players, then hopefully no more than 3 changes to the starting line up, with some changes made if we are looking comfortable in the last 25 mins. I would bring Tielemans in for Dougie or Kamara, Carlos or Lenglet in for Konsa, and Bailey for Zaniolo. The later subs if looking good would be Moreno on for Digne and Zaniolo for Bailey to gain fitness and form. Then other subs as seen fit by Unai. That would be the ideal situation playing out, but as Villa fans we should know by now it won't be that comfortable or easy.

51 minutes ago, oishiiniku_uk said:

4 away games out of 8 (inc. Europe) where we've conceded within the first 5 minutes and ended up losing. It feels like in all of those cases that the game plan immediately goes out the window, we push higher up the pitch to try and get back in the game, and get caught on the counter even more often. I'd like to see us be a bit more pragmatic in the early stages of away games (not sure it will happen though).

 

This is a pattern I have noticed, and I am not sure why it happens so regularly. Rule number 1 is to quieten the crowd in an away game by keeping it tight and frustrating the opposition. We do seem to have a gift for the opposition a bit too often for my liking, and it goes back further than Unai Emery's tenure here. We were doing the same during Deano's time as well.

Our away form as it stands is not good enough to threaten a top four spot this season. We need to cut out conceding early gifts, it makes our job away from home so much harder. So frustrating sometimes, just as you think we have cracked it.

I think with the bottom 4 picking up so few points this season, that we will see pretty large points hauls for the teams in the top half of the table. I think it will be one of those seasons where you will need near on 80+ points for Champions League qualification. One annoying advantage Spurs have on us this season is they have no European competition and they have bailed early in the league cup too. They will have no excuses for being tired in the run in, and I have a horrible feeling they will be the team to keep us out of the CL spots. Let's hope we can keep up with the race and they bottle it. 

Congratulations Emi, well deserved! What a few years he has had since joining us.

19 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Ugo Ehiogu, same. 

Haha, yes I remember his debut. 2-0 loss at home to Norwich if I remember it correctly, he was hopeless that match pretty much passed the ball to Norwich players every time. Turned out to be a giant for us in the end, what a player!

I am still fairly hopeful that Zaniolo will turn out to be a top player for us (assuming there is nothing in the betting scandal). He tries things that nobody else would try, which is why it doesn’t always come off. I hope by the second half of the season he will have settled into the pace of the PL and we start see the true levels he can produce. I recall Bergkamp not being overly great in his first season at Arsenal, and he went on to be a great player for them.

Just now, AvfcRigo82 said:

I agree, sorry, my post should have read very odd format/rule.

I'm sure it won't matter come the end of the group stage.  

Yeah hopefully we just keep winning, then there won’t be an issue. 

3 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Very odd if that is the case.

 

Yeah, I have checked the tables on the bbc and @rjw63 is correct. We are currently in second place.
 

edit. Also on UEFA.Com so must be the case.