Laughable Chimp

3 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

Disappointed in villa talk. No one really passed the ball to him so of course he struggled. Constant blaming and scapegoating of him is ridiculous. Poor passing to him hardly his fault. 

What about that time someone passed the ball to him with acres of space and he blasts the ball off target? What about that time someone passed the ball to him for a tap in and he isn't able to reach it before the Wolves defender? The man actually had service this time, not sure how many times he has to fail before you start to think maybe the fault lies somewhat on him?

Also, another thing. Our propensity to concede goals in the final minutes of the match strikes again. Its definitely an issue since even the commentators mentioned it, we've conceded the amount of goals in the final minutes of a game more than any other team in the league. The good news is we also seem to be good at scoring late goals though

11 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Not sure I agree with this, we got to the 86th minute against Liverpool, we were unlucky due to VAR against Palace and Arsenal.  We played well against City.  This was a really poor game and I agree with what you have said for this game but not for the season.  We have to remember we were equivalent to the 3rd place team to come up, a new team, a young team and everybody including the manager is new to this league.  We are still learning so I think you analysis for the season is wrong but this game was correct.

Liverpool were battering us throughout that entire second half and most of the game. It was eerily similar to how our Spurs game went down, we were subject to relentless pressure from their end and honestly, I think we were quite lucky to hold on to the match until there. We lost 3-0 against City, I don't really see how that can be considered a game where we played well. Palace we were shite the entire game, we definitely should've gotten an equalizer but it did not reflect how good we were at that game and ask anyone who watched that game and they'd agree that we were absolutely outplayed in that match. I don't remember the VAR decision that **** us at Arsenal but considering we still lost despite playing against 10 men for more than half the match against a mediocre Arsenal side, we really couldn't have played that well.

There is definitely something seriously wrong with how we've been playing, that makes it really easy for other teams to set up against us. 

The manner in which we've fallen to defeat has become all to familliar. Its ridiculously easy for our opponents to restrict our play and get the ball back, and it looks like this remains true even when we play different players or change the formations. There is something wrong with how these players have been coached to play.

I look back at that Norwich game, and I find that game particularly insightful as to how we play and how dominant we were. Norwich did not even try to restrict how we played the game, instead their entire strategy was basically trying to outscore us. Were it not for Tyrone Mings and our superior quality up front, we could've easily lost that game. But when teams play rigidly  against us we seem hopeless and seem to rely too much on a moment of magic from someone like Grealish, Mcginn or our wingers. 

At the very least, I think opposition teams know how to set up against us and unless Smith does something about it, we might be in for a world of hurt for some time. Because whatever he's doing now is clearly not working. Its just upsetting to see us lose in a similar manner again and again as if nothing has been learned from the previous games.

9 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Ridiculous decision by the club to rest everything on him. 

Signing him is fine but as the only forward brought in, it is starting to look like a terrible decision 

Think the club was planning on relying on Kodjia and if need be Davis in case Wesley doesn't come off. Turns out, both seem to be shite at this level.

Tbh though, as ardent a critic I've been of Wesley, I thought he was decent enough this game. He was aerially dominant again and I actually felt like he had chances to score this time. There were worst players on the pitch today than Wesley. 

Edit: Wonder how his expected goals talley will look for this game compared to his last 3.

This second half is starting to be very reminsce of the Liverpool second half. Can't hold on to the ball, and any forward pass keeps coming back.

Luiz is quite prone to the odd costly mistake isn't he?

Neil Taylor always looked baked to me.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1376013/Live/England-Premier-League-2019-2020-Wolverhampton-Wanderers-Aston-Villa

If anyone's interested. My personal rule of thumb is players that have a 6.5 or more at half time are on course to having a good game whilst players that have a 6.2 or less at half time are having a mediocre or worse game. So far, that's only Nakamba and Guilbert who's breached the 6.5 mark, while El Ghazi, Luiz, Mings and Konsa are below 6.2. Targett actually had a 5.7 which is really low and reflected how badly he was matching up against Traore.

In comparson, only Jota and Jonny have a rating below 6.5 for Wolves

Wow, that might just be the worst first half performance we've had this season.

6 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Copa America holders of course.

Another young lad derided by VT not so long ago, Adama, also got called up by Spain this round of internationals.

Its been what, 5 years tbf. Adama has improved a lot since then and whilst I don't remember what was the consensus here on him, I'd find it hard to believe that people didn't all agree he had bucket loads of potential.

Edit: Double post

3 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

I’m obviously delighted for him but also worried that our one striker is now off on international duty......

Still can only be good for his confidence!

I know Kodjia hasn't come off well in his appearances this season, but acting like he doesn't even exist is pretty mean.

33 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

It's not "nothing but potential" though, is it? He's already won two matches for us.

On the flip side, his lack of hold up play has also contributed to us conceding and dropping points in at least one match, its just harder to measure it. The way we play, we don't really restrict our opponents all that much, that should've been clear to see in the Norwich match and why both sides were conceding chances like crazy, because we both play like that. In this style of play, Wesley is vital to us because he  is the main source of relieving pleasure off of the defence, by holding the ball up the pitch when we get it up to him. His failure to do so leads to the balls going back into our half again and again, for an attack and another and this I do think is the main reason why we're conceding so many goals. Our backline isn't particularly leaky, its just been subject to massive pressure by the opposition and under prolonged pressure, people make mistakes and Wesley should also take some of the blame for failing to do this role. 

Lets assume Wesley has won us 2 games, but at the same time his inability to hold up the ball has cost us at least one game(I think this number can be anywhere really, who knows how many less goals we would've conceded if Wesley wass actually good at holding up the ball and relieving the pressure from the defence, plus you got to add the chances he would've gotten had he successfully hold up the ball and brought it up the pitch).. So net-wise, that's really only one game he's won for us out of 11. Good strikers win more games for their team than that.

1 hour ago, Dave-R said:

It's not hard to see he has strengths, he just has to use them and move past his weaknesses that he's displaying. When Wes had that period against Liverpool where he was chasing the ball down and the fans were going wild, you can more than see that Wesley is trying to develop a new style of play. Wes certainly  doesn't look like the player he was in his videos for his old club, he looks as though he's trying to remake himself and that's ok. Wes does have to find a way past the parts of the game that are making him frustrated, the bits that end up with him on the floor and the kodjia like play where he goes missing and stops fighting for the ball.

I've seen in every game that Wes is trying alot of new things  and at times his link up play has been nice. So to has is unselfish behaviour been a nice bit of play, there have been a few occasions he could of gone for goal yet played it off to his teammate. While he has gotten frustrated at some players, there have been some that just couldnt handle him, he does have a strength where he could terrorise defenders, he just need to realise it more and do that.

I think people need to support him more, don't understand why not, he's our player and we should be offering all the support he can grab. There have been those fans that are or have been so against Wesley being our striker. Some of the things that have been said by fans in other media sites are uncalled for, point blank he's a villa player and untill those behind putting him in the team and stop seeing him as our first striker, stop supporting him as our lone striker, we should also be behind him 1000%.

I'll be honest, I really don't see the strengths that some people are talking about. The only thing I've honestly been impressed with so far, is his movement and poacher's instinct which I don't know why doesn't get talked about more. He's decent at being in the right position at the right time to score for us. The other stuff like strength, link-up play, even finishing I just don't see it, at all, hell aside from finishing I don't even think Wesley is better than Davis at this stuff. Davis certainly uses his strength better on the pitch even if you argue that he is technically weaker and it doesn't feel like there's much difference with our link-up play in the final third whenever Davis is on the pitch instead of Wesley. I know I'm not the only one sharing this perception of him, so I can feel the frustration of some of the other posters here who have the same perception of him as me because it feels like we're not even watching the same player out there.

Him doing something well for one game also doesn't make it a strength of his. I'll be the first to admit that Wesley was doing good against Lovren aerially in the Liverpool match but that doesn't magically make it into his strength when he's been poor at it for more games than he's actually been good at it for us.

I get that he has potential, but you don't put a player with nothing but potential up front for a side battling relegation in the premier league. Its entirely possible Wesley never actually gets better. There have been plenty of players in football who it seemed like had great potential but for one reason or another didn't come good, just as there's players who've come good. No one really knows how good they'll become, that's why its called potential. Well, I guess we don't really have a choice at this point tbh since its really just Kodjia who can sub for him so not sure what's the point.

17 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

How City lost to this Norwich team is a mystery.

Luck. They had 3 shots on target, and 3 goals. It happens.

4 hours ago, VillanousOne said:

we need Luiz or someone else to be able to take decent free kicks and set pieces as we are too reliant on Connor.

when was the last time we scored from a corner?

 

I'm not sure when, but understat lists us as having scored one goal from a corner this season.

Ran some numbers through calculation. Basically found the average number of corners we've had per game, number of shots we've gotten from corners and expected goals per shot from corners and combined them together to find that our expected goals per corner is 2.55%. This is higher than both Liverpool's expected corner conversion rate(1.94%) and Watford's expected corner conversion rate(1.47%) but lower than Man United's(4.84%). The bigger problem it seems is that we aren't getting enough corners, as we've only gotten 47 corners this season. That's the fifth worst in the league.

1 hour ago, MotoMkali said:

In 85 minutes of game time per game wesley averages 15 passes. He also does the equivalent of lose the ball 5 and a half times per game meaning he receives the ball about 20 times per game and you expect me to believe he is getting the necessary amount of service to flourish as a striker. Mcginn gets the ball 35 ish times per game as well which is really low for midfielder.

We clearly need to work on getting the ball to our best players more consistently so they can have a bigger impact on games. And get the ball to just everyone more consistently so they can do anything. I don't believe aguero would have scored more goals for us this year than Wesley has because we aren't providing our striker with the necessary service for him to much of anything. In the Norwich game wesley was dropping deeper we were playing more balls to his feet players were running past him creating space for him and everyone else to operate in but we haven't really done that again since then. The arsenal game we did it in the first half which is why we scored twice against an alright team because we played to Wesley's strengths which allowed everyone else's strengths to come to the fore.

I'm tired of everyone scapegoating wesley and hourihane. It wasn't hourihane fault trez's ball to him had a little to much pace on it so the keeper was on him when he got their and it isn't wes's fault we keep hoofing the ball to the general vicinity of the defender furthest away from wes yet we insist it is wes's fault that he isn't winning the ball. Maybe look at Heaton and how he has completed onkly 53% of his passes. What about mings. We got lucky with mcginn running in on opening day helped by wes's excellent ability to keep sanchez away from mcginn aide from that it was a poor ball not close enough for wes to win it and without an excellent run from mcginn the ball would have easily been picked up by Danny Rose. 

1-Passes isn't the right stats for it if you're looking for how many times Wesley actually has hold of the ball. Whoscored measures the "posession" which I believe to be a more accurate measure of this. In the previous 3 PL games, Wesley had had an average of 1.4% possession of the ball out of the whole match. Aguero averaged 2%. Aguero got 2 goals in an assist in these 3 games. Wesley has had neither. 

I still don't think possession is a particularly good measure of the quality of service anyway, but I still think its better than passes Wesley makes.

2-We only got one goal in the first half of the Arsenal game, so trying to say that our style of play in the first half is what contributed to us scoring 2 goals eventually is odd. Plus, they weren't even an alright team for most of the game considering they were down to 10 men yet we still were pretty much on the backfoot for the second half in spite of it.

3-This whole, Wesley doesn't get enough good service argument is weird to me since Davis seems to be doing significantly better whenever he's subbed on for Wesley at actually holding up the ball. This has happened several times whenever Davis has got on the pitch for Wesley. Did the other players magically get better at giving the striker the ball each time? Honestly, our service may not be the best but its increasingly starting to appear as if he isn't able to do much unless he gets the highest quality of service, just look at the goals he's scored so far, they've all been very close to the goal and were provided to him with great service.]

Just had a look at the Wesley goals so far again. Arsenal and Norwich's second goals were both tap ins, set up for him on a silver platter. First Norwich goal didn't have great service, just the Norwich defender **** up so the cross somehow ended up right in front of Wesley and just outside the 6 yard box with only the keeper to beat. The Everton goal was a masterful ball by Jota that Wesley picked up and credit to him made the right run for, and he ends up again just outside the 6 yard box with only the keeper to beat. Of course he needed to be in these positions to score the goals and I give him credit for being there, but the quality of service that was provided for Wesley in almost all these goals have been top notch. The problem is that he doesn't seem do anything of note with the ball, much less score if the service is anything less.

35 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

El Ghazi is easily the more gifted athlete. Bigger, taller, stronger, faster etc. Just from looking at him, Trez looks like someone you'd see at your local 5 a side.

I'd have my doubts on him being faster, but definitely bigger and taller and most likely stronger.

7 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I don't see why which minute we concede in makes a difference (against teams like Liverpool at least). If we're always conceding in stoppage time (a la under Di Matteo) then there's a problem, but against Liverpool it doesn't make a difference. They could have been 2 up by the 60th minute if luck went their way. They keep going until the end, this isn't the first time them or City have scored in stoppage time. If we concede to Wolves on Sunday in stoppage time, that's points dropped to me...not against Liverpool.

It does because to me, the definition of dropping points depends on what we expect to gain out of the match. This obviously can change during the course of the match compared to before the match.

If we battered Liverpool pillar to post despite Liverpool having every right to do that to us and we still lose the match, I'd view it as us dropping points because by all right, we should've gotten points off them. 

Similarly, Liverpool were all over us for the second half of the match but by the 85th minute, the expectation was we should've come out with at least a point. The fact that we somehow came out with nothing is to me, points dropped. This is obviously not the case if Liverpool scored their goal in the first minute and we both played like we did.

7 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

It's not really "dropping" points when it's Liverpool though and that's the point. They're just levels better than us. They had an extra gear in stoppage time that we didn't have.

I disagree. If we're in a winning position by the 85th minute against any team, only to lose the match by the end, I view it as dropping points that should've been in the bag.

Plus, it wasn't an extra gear by Liverpool that cost us the match anyway. They were battering us throughout the entire second half.

3 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

I think that simplifies it though, scoring goals is not one of England's problems, and he might not have as many assists but he is creating more chances, stick kane in front of him instead of Wesley and see where his assists stats end up, then you look at what englands problems are - someone in midfield who can drive the ball forward, has good ball retention and passing skills, controlling the pace and keeping possession, that's not Hudson-odoi

Whilst I agree with this, considering Southgate's coments I don't think he sees Grealish as that type of player for some reason and would rather he be on the wing.

49 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Southgate "it's hard because he's up against Hudson-Odoi"

Yep, nice one Gareth:

Hudson Odoi - career total 17 appearances for Chelsea, 90%+ from the bench = no goals

 

Can really see why that would be a head scratcher for ya Gareth, effing gimp that you are.

To be to fair to Hudson-Odoi, he's been averaging an assist every 74 minutes in his 5 PL appearances this year, and an assist every 90 minutes in all appearances whilst Grealish is averaging a goal or assist every 179minutes of PL action. Although if you're only looking at Grealish's matches in October, its an assist/goal every 88 minutes in all PL appearances.

I don't know why Hudson-Odoi isn't playing more for his team, but perhaps Southgate was very impressed of what he saw of him when he did have time to play.

18 hours ago, Keyblade said:

"Anything other than a thrashing against City or Liverpool is a success"

*Narrowly lose 2-1 in stoppage time after an excellent performance*

"We can't keep dropping points from winning positions like this!"

Both can be true though. 

It is a success that we didn't get thrashed by Liverpool, but we also can't keep dropping points from winning positions like that. 

14 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

Should the worst happen, and Kodjia and Wesley both got injured while Davis was out, I wonder who Smith would play up there. Trezeguet or El Ghazi seem the obvious options.

i wouldn't trust Trezeguet up front yet. The man has like poor composure and poor finishing ability, both traits that I think is fundamental to being good up front despite his good performance last game. I think he assets is best suited as a direct winger anyway.

El Ghazi I can see playing in this role tbh. Hourihane is a good shout too. he always seems to score, honestly he might be suprisingly good if we need someone to chuck up front and he isn't a vital presence in midfield.