andyjsg

The reason we have been around the bottom as we were still paying for our last attempt at mixing it with the big boys. The big contracts had to be paid for some way...

Yet previously you were saying it was down to attendances, which over the past 5 years are higher than both Everton and Spurs btw who are top 6 regulars still.

Read all my quotes, this is the 2nd time people haven't read what I have written properly.

Price of tickets along with attendance and general profitability of the club (how saleable to Sponsors) is a huge factor (re spurs) and they take 60 million more in than us, I don't understand how people don't get that we don't make enough money to expect that things will be different.

We got to 6th by spending money we couldn't afford so whilst attendances may have risen a little we weren't going enough or paying enough to cover the costs of our little jaunt. We are still paying this off now.

Everton is the exception as they got lucky with players and managers.

The reason we have been around the bottom as we were still paying for our last attempt at mixing it with the big boys. The big contracts had to be paid for some way...

Keep going around in circles here so I think I'm out as whatever is said people want to just lay the blame on Lerner and whilst I agree some of the decisions were not good in hindsight (MON money) or at all (McLeash). I think fans should consider their part or at least understand that unless prices go up and attendances improve (along with general attitude) that things won't change unless this mystical sugar daddy turns up or we get lucky with purchases (ala Benteke).

I think people need a dose of reality!!

Yeah how can you expect to grow a fan base when you have the odd decent year let alone 4 relegation worried years in a row.

I'm still amazed that someone is prepared to blame the fan base.

I'm amazed that you don't see it as a significant part of the problem. We are not a "hot" commodity to the point our own fans don't even want to watch us. Not sure the same thing happens at Newcastle and they have had worse times than us in recent memory.

I assume financially and I guess that's correct and if we had more people turning up and spending money we would be able to compete with the evertons of this world.

You need to address your product before you have "people turning up".

Consider it early adopting for investment into a future product :-)

Otherwise it's Catch 22

I assume financially and I guess that's correct and if we had more people turning up and spending money we would be able to compete with the evertons of this world.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/apr/18/premier-league-club-accounts-debt

Misprint I think - says 41m for match day revenue on Tottenham accounts.

and how much more from merchandising? How much more from ticket sales as my definition of match day revenue is everything except the ticket

Its all classed as gate and match day income and spurs got £1 million more than us.

Yet Spurs make 50 million a year more in revenue.....

That's great but you were blaming the fans and what you called pathetic attendences.

I still stand by that and as I said its to do with the product that say a sponsor would want to invest In. Crap attendances with booing fans does not look like an appealing investment.

Also Like the guy above says I think a million sounds too low and I still think we would have more of a case if we had bigger attendances at more expensive prices. We don't have the competition of so many clubs as London so we should be selling out easily as the biggest club in the midlands.

and how much more from merchandising? How much more from ticket sales as my definition of match day revenue is everything except the ticket

Its all classed as gate and match day income and spurs got £1 million more than us.

Yet Spurs make 50 million a year more in revenue.....

They show as 36k but maybe that's all comps. Again we have one of the cheapest tickets too, so not making the sums that say many London clubs are making.

There is always a reason or other, as said above we weren't exactly attracting the numbers under MON either and crap football hasn't stopped other clubs getting better attendance.

Wrong. Our attendances grew under MON to near sell outs every game and would have increased further if we had developed a more attractive playing style at home.

36000, hardly amazing!!

I think the fans are part of the reason, we are not a draw as we get crap attendances and spend half our time booing our own team. So we don't get the sponsorship etc required to compete.

Pathetic. The club treats fans as customers, they should hardly be shocked when fans act like customers who have just spent a fortune to watch shite.

Attendances have gone down because the standard of football has gone down. It works both ways. Oh the WBA album had a good atmosphere? Was that because we were scoring goals and were playing half decent football for the first time in god knows how long. Our home record must be the worst in the Premier League over the past 4 years. You can't expect everyone to be happy to pay for that. It's not the fans fault the club has been totally mismanaged.

There is always a reason or other, as said above we weren't exactly attracting the numbers under MON either and crap football hasn't stopped other clubs getting better attendance.

Money has to come from somewhere...

I think the fans are part of the reason, we are not a draw as we get crap attendances and spend half our time booing our own team. So we don't get the sponsorship etc required to compete.

I'm not anti-Lerner, I'd say I was in the middle, wouldn't mind him staying if we were run properly, but would quite like a new owner, but you're argument is absolute rubbish.

We get crap attendances because we've been atrocious at home for the last 4-5 years, and although I don't agree with the booing, ditto.

As for sponsorship, I thought Macron was our most lucrative sposorship yet, and isn't Dafabet bringing in a lot too?

I'm inclined to agree with you, but i think the expectations on here have (certainly in run up to transfer deadline day) been totally unrealistic and to think we will suddenly get an uber rich owner to throw money at the club is also unrealistic. Especially considering the state of our perceived popularity.

I think the fans are part of the reason, we are not a draw as we get crap attendances and spend half our time booing our own team. So we don't get the sponsorship etc required to compete.

Brilliant.

West Brom game last week is first home game I've been to in a few years where it hasn't been a horrible atmosphere.

But the rich owner has to want to keep throwing the money into it. I believe a combination of "fair play" rules and a lack of willingness from our owner means we don't have that money.

I think the fans are part of the reason, we are not a draw as we get crap attendances and spend half our time booing our own team. So we don't get the sponsorship etc required to compete.

We have up until the last financial report at least being making big losses, my point being that to spend money like Spurs or Arsenal we have to be making the same money or have a rich owner who most here seem to think are queuing up to buy the club. If they exist let's hope the come and buy us, but I won't be holding my breath.

So where does the money come from then? The aforementioned fantasy owner who can afford to throw millions down the toilet?

The responsibility is as much with the fans

What a load of shit. Look at our home form over the last few years and look at our average attendences.

Our average attendances for the biggest club in the 2nd city are pathetic.

No, to expect that there is just someone with tons of money waiting to spend it on out club. It's just not realistic.

A lot of the London clubs spend as they have the money, but rarely do we sell out our stadium and we have some of the cheapest tickets going. If the prices went up there would be an even bigger uproar yet the expectation is we should be buying 15mil midfielders. The responsibility is as much with the fans as with the owners but most are too short sighted to see this.

I see we have all been playing football manager again. I mean it so easy to get billionaire investors who are willing just to throw money at the club. I don't know what world you all live in?!?

I think that describes most game types to be honest and infact most entertainment wether that be music or movies. I still like playing FIFA and that's been the same game for years!!

I saw some videos from the Alpha yesterday, I personally think it looks awesome.

Hill repeats was the difference for me oh and losing weight. Ive got stronger and faster on bike but that has added weight and slowed me down a bit. Also my diet isnt great for someone trying to be a part time athlete.

I recently joined strava as they had a 500k cycling challenge Xmas week so uploaded all my garmin data for the last year. I would be up for joining a group - athlete: 3478504

For 5k training I would recommend interval, fartleks and hill repeats. All ways to make you get used to running at a faster pace. It's worked really well for me took me from 24 mins to 19 (which currently I can't get near). Training for endurance seems to make you slower even when you don't want it to....