Jas10

9 minutes ago, CarryOnVilla said:

I never really know how to fully interpret these, but my monkey brain has worked out, he’s no where near what we want/need/could work with 

Pretty straightforward mate and you got it bang on

Probably the best or easiest kind of visual representation and comparison to look at.

Obviously, stats don’t give the full picture and lack complete context, especially when taking into account different countries, leagues, opposition, competition etc but give a good enough idea. Like the frequency and accuracy of certain actions, such as different kinds of pass. And we can never tell or predict the improvement a manager and coach like Unai can bring in a player either… not everything is so tangible. 

What seems to be being overlooked, is that Unai wants and we require pass masters or technicians in the side to give us the control we need and crave… if you lose a player of that kind, you need to replace with the same sort or even better.

A box to box, high energy presser (like a Gallagher) is not really a replacement for a player like Luiz or Tielemans… nor a DM like Kamara… but more of the McGinn type who can or tend to play on the left or right of the midfield in Unai’s set up.

We need players like Luiz and Tielemans in the centre of our midfield, backed up by a defensive specialist such as Kamara (this is what we need, more than anything else).

7 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said:

Connect the dots:

1. Monchis trip to Turin

2. One of most accurate Italian journos reports on what they are discussing 

3. We are known to be close to the PSR edge.

Its not really a stretch to accept that we are considering selling him to juve. I don't think Monchi would go there if they had no chance of singing ging him.

1. Could be enquiring about signings, rather than sales. Could be discussing any player(s), not necessarily or solely Dougie.

2. Is he? Ok, maybe it’s being discussed but that doesn’t mean it will happen or Juve can make us a good enough or appealing offer. We can reject it. Like I said, I’m not ruling out a sale but will rule out a terrible deal or underselling Dougie, he’s amongst our most valuable players.

3. We don’t know the exact details of this and hardly anyone expected us to qualify for CL and boost revenue streams so quickly. We have plenty of players, some who aren’t important or crucial, that we can sell too. We have done the best that we could… given the circumstances. 

3 minutes ago, Rich192 said:

Di Marzio is about as reliable as they come. We can hope it doesn’t happen, and it might not. But there is a legitimate journalist covering it. 

Is he? He’s come up with some fake stuff or stories that didn’t materialise iirc… unless I’m confusing him with someone else.

He may just be regurgitating what the rest of the media there have been saying too

I’m not ruling out a sale but I am ruling out underselling or selling for a crap fee or swapping for a relatively shite player. Can’t believe that we would do a deal that didn’t benefit us as much as possible…

Nothing from Romano or any British journos… not a peep.

17 minutes ago, JPAngel said:

Hypothetically, if this deal were to happen, do you think Unai may see Tielemans as first choice in that position with Barkley acting as the rotation option? Luiz did drop off last season whereas Tielemans went from strength to strength. That would leave Kamara as first choice in the destroyer role and he'd rotate with McKennie.

Felt a bit sick typing this.

No… Youri hasn’t shown consistent form and been consistently available. He gets injured, picks up knocks and strains and often gets exhausted. To expect him to do as well as Luiz has done over the course of an entire season is a massive ask.

IF we were to lose Luiz… I’m sure we would bring in another player of that ilk or style. We can’t make do with one, especially if he can’t do the business week in, week out. Luiz is amongst the players to have played the most minutes for us and to have made the biggest contributions to us winning games.

He is being very under appreciated, maybe even disrespected, by many fans rn…

Most of all, it’s clear that Unai wants control in games and Luiz is his go-to-man for that. He would be difficult and costly to replace.

Again, I don’t think he’s going unless we receive an offer that is too good to turn down (Juve do not have that capacity unless they send some of their better players our way along with a decent fee) AND Dougie actually wants out, which I highly doubt. I think, like Emi, he is going to relish playing for us in CL and show his quality on the biggest stage.

15 minutes ago, HolteExile said:

But the engine room controls everything.  Mess around with that at your peril. Kamara and Luiz as a duo powered us to top 4. Being without Kamara until Oct/Nov at the earliest will be tough enough to compensate for as it is. 

Exactly… absolutely crucial. We struggled for ages to get that midfield right and finally managed to do it. A strong central midfield is key to any top quality side. We have to look at a long run of games and consistency too… just because McGinn and Tielemans did well in one or two games doesn’t mean that they will and could sustain it over a whole season. We know Luiz and Kamara can.

Grealish is not even a comparable situation, we were battling relegation in the main and struggled or dropped off for a while after he left… it wasn’t a quick or easy transition… and the players brought in were largely disappointing (initially, at least…. Deano got sacked) and/or heavily criticised. 

In fact, we didn’t really see an improvement or a lasting one until Unai (a massive improvement on the coaching and management side, very lucky to get him and he has transformed and elevated us) arrived… and now we’re competing in the Champions League.

If we mess with the formula or any key components… the drop off could be even more severe and it will be harder to get back to where we are or want to be… to be this or more competitive again. Lose any of the biggest contributors and we might not get back to this level again… massive risk.

New players are unlikely to gel immediately and hit the ground running in terms of peak and consistent form… especially if that key component or two is missing and the pressure is heaped on them to perform straight away - a huge challenge.

Finding and integrating quality or even adequate replacements for your best and most important players is VERY, VERY DIFFICULT.

Unai has already talked about this… that there’s no point selling an important player just for money and lose the quality, structure and potential of the side. These players are very hard to replace…

”we do not want to lose the potential of our team”

23 minutes ago, villaglint said:

I called this a YAWN at the beginning and I'm wobbling on that but still cant see how this can be anything but BS. 

Why would we accept 40m euros for a player with 2 years on his deal who got 10 goals and 10 assists in the last year, just become a Brazlian international and never gets injured. 

Declan (bargain of the season supposedly at £100m) only got 7 goals and 10 assists. I'd argue he's given more licence to go forward in the Arsenal system than Luiz is. 

No one of any legitimacy or credibility has even mentioned it… it’s absolute nonsense from clickbait BS spouting Italian media. We should be used to it by now, every flipping window… some fake shite or other is constantly spread around.

Just don’t get all the fuss and furore… nothing to see or believe here.

5 minutes ago, imavillan said:

Surely the club would not post this just 15 mins ago if he was leaving?

 

 

Dougie to follow Leon in signing a new deal

46 minutes ago, TRO said:

....too small.

21 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

i call b*ll*cks

the press said he was gagging to join Arsenal

he didn't

Good radar. It’s complete nonsense from bullshit spouting Italian media n journos.

20 minutes ago, duke313 said:

If he goes, he goes. But I’m really not keen on the idea of a deal involving Weston McFattie. It has Stephen Ireland vibes.  I’d thought we had moved past those days of teams taking our best players and us being lumped with their deadwood as compensation.

32 minutes ago, CarryOnVilla said:

Some fans think our Lion is too violent looking
So, to tone back the angry feelings a touch i came up with this

43 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said:

We can't get anywhere near the same money for someone like Tielemans as for Luiz. If ffp is the reason for sale and not something specific to Luiz situation.

Well… we got him for free and he has shown good form so we could make a tidy profit if we wanted to and depending on interest.

Who knows what sort of incoming fee we actually need… why sell a key player to bring in two average players, for instance? Or players that may have the quality but would need a full season to adapt and integrate… why risk such a setback?

Personally, I’d rather hang on to our better players and be relatively frugal or savvy (pick up quality frees, good players at reduced fees due to expiring contracts etc) than risk disrupting the balance and momentum we have or having to “start again, from scratch” in certain, key areas… we can’t afford a slip up or regression at this stage. 

Anyway…

let’s just wait and see how things pan out, window isn’t open for another 10 days yet and a long, long way to go until it’s closed…

By now, we should all know that the media spout constant nonsense and BS, revel in speculation etc to get traffic, clicks, exposure… we see it in every transfer window and only a very small percentage of all that shite has any actual truth to it. There aren’t really any or many actual itks…

Rather than believe everything that is written… let’s apply a bit of logic, sense and perspective and, if something happens, react to it accordingly.

There’s no way we’re selling Luiz for 40m and having McKennie thrown into the deal for instance… it’s obvious made up shite and attracts a lot of attention…  

if players like Fernandez and Caicedo go  for 100m odd… there’s no reason why someone like Dougie should go for much less… and that’s without even discussing whether the club would want him to leave or he would even have any interest in going anywhere… it’s just more speculation… why do we believe it so easily? Just cos someone wrote something like “Luiz wants a new challenge” online, why do we choose to believe it? Has anyone even talked to the guy? Nope.

It’s ridiculous.

There’s every chance that he’s happy and wants to extend his deal, while improving terms.

No one knows..

20 minutes ago, duke313 said:

According to online sources (which may or may not be correct), Tielemans and Kamara are on £150,000 p/w and Luiz is on £75,000 p/w.

£150,000 ÷ 2 = £75,000 

No doubt he deserves and is due a new deal… seems the more likely scenario, anyway. He has contributed massively.

9 minutes ago, allani said:

Yep - I'd steer clear of Dybala.  Not sure he's a Premier League player.  I think Bailey and Rogers are better foils for Ollie.  I'm not sure we can buy players just to play in the Champions League matches (when fit).

With all the rotten luck we have had with injuries.. it wouldn’t make much sense to sign players with a regularly poor injury record (I’m not talking of a player who suffered a bad injury but those that are regularly unavailable or constantly pick up knocks, niggles, strains)… nor ageing ones that tend to miss many games.

We need quality players that are usually available and help, contribute and strengthen us… 

We have great examples in the likes of Konsa, Luiz, McGinn, Watkins… these lads plays regularly (so many minutes, no wonder they were knackered with our squad so depleted) and are usually consistent…

Not this one again… the lad’s seemingly always injured. Could be another Coutinho…

Regurgitated links… gonna see a lot of that (McKennie? )

Difficult to know what to believe… there’s gonna be so much shite again and the window isn’t even open yet… another 10 days to go.

I would agree that he’s our most valuable, sellable/profitable player but that doesn’t mean we’re looking to sell… and he’s not the only asset we have. There are other “candidates” if people want to have that conversation… not one for me though.

I can’t believe we’ll let anyone go for anything other than a monstrous offer… if big bids don’t arrive, we retain our core and spine and add with savvy, sensible deals without taking big financial risks… we don’t need to spend lavishly and can’t.

Sure we won’t undersell anyone and I’m certainly not going to believe BS spouting journos… they’re just not credible. And I feel the FFP/PSR thing is being overblown… club have got their finger on the pulse and no one on the outside is going to know the details.
 

We’ve arguably managed to do the best that we could - get into CL and boost revenue streams already. I don’t get the negativity and pessimism… there’s a lot to be excited and enthusiastic about. We’re not going to go backwards and Unai wouldn’t stand for it. We’ve put ourselves in the best possible situation to kick on and I’m sure players like Dougie are delighted, excited and invested…  big Emi is a great example and influence for them all too.

Woild be madness to disturb, disrupt and weaken a side that have just qualified for CL and taken a big step up…we have to be stronger and more competitive. Selling a key component, especially below peak/optimum value, would be stupid and harmful. We have enough cast offs to move on…

Also… I can’t imagine there are any/many players that played regularly who would want to leave… after all we have achieved and the progress we have made. 

5 minutes ago, duke313 said:

This is the most simple explanation IMO.  His contract is up in two years, he's our best midfielder and is earning half of what Kamara and Tielemans are on.  All this is, is his agent stoking the flames to get him a better deal.

He deserves it 

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Koopmeiners is to @paul514 what Chiesa is to you.... And what any player over 6 ft 3 is to TRO. 

Scenes and head explosions when we sign Chiesa AND Koopmeiners!

Bring me this midfield and attack

                    Watkins    Bailey

Chiesa       Luiz   Koopmeiners     McGinn

Cue the new contract…

8 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Noises on Doug - Juve getting louder.

The " McKennie " swap notion is hilarious though.

If there is any truth to us doing a deal with Juve, it certainly won't be that one 

Would most likely be a large chunk of cash and maybe 2 - 3 players imo.

Either this, or it's just US who are actually interested in a player or two from Juve, and the media are playing 2 + 2 = 3

It’s just Italian media BS and baseless speculation… the player they might actually want is Koopmeiners (that’s also being reported on)…

seems like we are giving far too much airtime and credence to the crap they are spouting, it’s what they do.

We aren’t selling Dougie for 40m FFS

and why would he want to leave now, when we are doing the best we possibly could and going to be playing in the CL? The lad stuck around when we were struggling to stay up, now he wants out all of a sudden? Yeah right

Clearly loves the club, shows his passion and celebrates our wins and achievements with joy…  these lads are going to enjoy showing their best for us on the best competition.

N no thanks to McKennie… we don’t want Juve’s deadwood.

Nonsense rubbish. Noise is all it is and it’s going to be persistent all summer… the window hasn’t even opened and we’re having to see all this shite how much worse is it going to get?!

Should really not believe it and fan the flames…