Kiwivillan

Yawn still going on about JW and the Nazis. What a boring side-issue that Julie is happy to contend to distract from the absurd interpretations of the bible.

Luke 20:34-36 Jesus says:

"The children of this world marry, but they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are children of God, being the children of the resurrection"

So there you have it. Angels can't have sex.

I'm not a proponent of the bible but was made study it in the past. You are and you have an unbelievable misconception.

I thought you believed in the bible literally and now you are saying something that is never mentioned in the bible? Wow! Are you creating you own new religion?

Apparently according to steaknchips I have read the bible but not understood it. Quite clearly you or someone that has told you has misinterpreted the bible as above. Is that just the tip of the iceberg?

Do you incorporate Van Daniken's theories into your religious beliefs or just new earth creationists?

The Bible mentions that other sons of the true God or angels followed Satan in turning against God.

(Genesis 6:2) . . 

.then the sons of the [true] God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking; and they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose.

Woah. You cannot be saying this refers to angels?

Yes who else could be "the Sons of the True God"? It wasn't a sin for men to marry at all.. it was the angels who came down to earth or forsook their original position to take human wives.

(Jude 6) . . .

And the angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place"

The next mention of Sons of the True God occurs in Job 1:6 in a heavenly setting...

6 Now it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even Satan proceeded to enter right among them.

So how could Genesis 6 verse 2 be referring to anything other than angels? who foorsook their proper dwelling place to take on physical bodies.

The Bible calls the offspring of those marriages the Nephilim... (Genesis 6:4) 4 

The Neph′i‧lim proved to be in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of the [true] God continued to have relations with the daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were the mighty ones who were of old, the men of fame.

The Nephilim would have been wiped out by the flood of Noah's day which is why Halloween is the most important date of the Satanist calendar because it memorialises the death of the Sons of the Demons or Fallen Angels who mated with the daughters of men... and the dead who died at the flood!

And I posted lots of references to Halloween and the Flood previously in cultures from across the globe.

Goodness. Complete and utter fail.

1. Taking wives implies having sex which you must know angels don't have sex.

2. Daughters and Sons of Men are often refered to in the bible as non-followers of God as opposed to followers or "sons of the [true] God"

3. According to the bible The Flood was caused by the sins of men not sins of angels so they can't be angels. What you referenced in chapter 6 led up to the flood.

Absolutely astonishing failure of interpretation that completely contradicts well-held beliefs.

I don't why you keep bringing up the Halloween-Great Flood connection as it has nothing to do with the bible but a stupid book written by some new earth creationists, therefore, redundant.

The Bible mentions that other sons of the true God or angels followed Satan in turning against God.

(Genesis 6:2) . . 

.then the sons of the [true] God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking; and they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose.

Woah. You cannot be saying this refers to angels?

C'mon Julie, I must press you for an answer...

The Bible mentions that other sons of the true God or angels followed Satan in turning against God.

(Genesis 6:2) . . 

.then the sons of the [true] God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking; and they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose.

Woah. You cannot be saying this refers to angels?

Is there a prequel to the bible which talks about the rad time God had with the angels before he created everything?

It says he created Angels...Lucifer was an angel.

Psalm 104.Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

Psalms is the 19th book of the bible. Where does it say he created the devil/angels in the creation story?

Isaiah is not talking about an angel but you would no that if you had properly read, researched and understood the bible.

Don't tell me you make the mistake of taking metaphors in the bible literally?

Why does it have to be mentioned in the creation story for mankind?

I think it's fundamentally important to the narrative but if you want to gloss over it that says an awful lot about you.

It says he created Angels...Lucifer was an angel.

Psalm 104.Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

Psalms is the 19th book of the bible. Where does it say he created the devil/angels in the creation story?

Isaiah is not talking about an angel but you would no that if you had properly read, researched and understood the bible.

Don't tell me you make the mistake of taking metaphors in the bible literally?

Where in the story of creation i.e. Genesis does it say God created Lucifer?

The Bible doesn't say God created Lucifer.. he created an angel that was perfect but had free will. This angel turned himself into

Satan or the Devil by opposing and slandering God.

Lucifer actually translates as light bearer or shining one and the scripture at (Isaiah 14:12) . . ."O how you have fallen from heaven, you shining one, son of the dawn! How you have been cut down to the earth, you who were disabling the nations!" relates that Satan was a fallen angel who turned himself into God's enemy - both he and his invisible organisation who are misleading the nations.

Where in Genesis does it say he created this angel?

Isaiah is talking about a fallen Babylonian king, not a fallen angel actually, but you knew that right?

God creates was the 1st move.

Evil destroys was the 2nd move.

God combats the destruction of his creation with Jesus 3rd move.

Evil ?

Wait what? When did God create Evil?

I thought you said you had read and "understood" the bible?

You've used this whole thread to demonstrate your amazing knowledge of the Bible so tell me, if God created everything where in the Bible does it say he created Evil?

You have answered this in your question..

God did indeed create everything..Which includes Angel Lucifer..Who did rebel before God created Adam and Eve.

Mark 4. These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them.

Lucifer, Satan, Beelzubul, the Evil one...Is the opposition to God, he is said to be the most powerful of the angels and believed to have taken up to 1/3 of them. He is out to destroy God's work.

I'm confused. Clearly I haven't read and understood the bible.

Where in the story of creation i.e. Genesis does it say God created Lucifer?

God creates was the 1st move.

Evil destroys was the 2nd move.

God combats the destruction of his creation with Jesus 3rd move.

Evil ?

Wait what? When did God create Evil?

I thought you said you had read and "understood" the bible?

You've used this whole thread to demonstrate your amazing knowledge of the Bible so tell me, if God created everything where in the Bible does it say he created Evil?

God creates was the 1st move.

Evil destroys was the 2nd move.

God combats the destruction of his creation with Jesus 3rd move.

Evil ?

Wait what? When did God create Evil?

Religious persons logic:

Proposition 1. God exists because he is mentioned in the bible.

Proposition 2. The bible is true because it's the Word of God.

=

Irrefutable logic!!!

How do you know that any of it is genuine?

Julie, I'm not really sure that's a thread that you or steakandchips really want to be pulling at.

Priceless, really priceless.

That's absolute rubbish. websites dedicated to stating twisted lies.

Like 99% of the links you and snc have put up.

Sie, Im not asking ANYONE who reads this thread to join any club, sect, cult or any other little fundamentalist money grabbing group..All im asking is just do some research to try and get an understanding of the bible. Then form your own opinion..

I have over many years. It's a work of fiction. The end.

Bullsh1t Kiwi,

If you have read and understand the bible..Even if you didnt believe in it you would still respect it. You would respect it as an historic document, historic writings.. Yet you take the p1ss..

Because I have read it and researched I know it for what it is. It most certainly is not a historic document. If you wanted to put a percentage on the historical accuracy of the entirety I would say 15% max.

If you believe different you have been successfully brainwashed.

There are some hilarious flaws in bible accounts that come about from multiple translations that people because they are so blindly indoctrinated can not take them for what they are.

Jesus' trial being one of my favourites.

In fairness to JulieB

Risso mentioned Jehovahs Witness's not fighting against Nazis.

I think its only right whatever you think of JW's that its pointed out they were persecuted and killed in Nazi Germany like many groups . They were vocal critics of Nazi party very early on.

Unlike the catholic church...

But yes this offtopic somehwat

Actually, a quick Google shows that this standing up to Hitler is more lies and misinformation put about by this detestable cult.

Martin I didn't take you to be a liar. There is a huge amount of evidence about this subject from sources nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses.

Channel 4 made a film all about it called Purple Triangles.

Jehovah's Witnesses supported Hitler until Hitler and the majority of Christian denominations decided that the Jehovah's Witnesses were undermining Christianity by claiming Jesus as prophet and not actually God. Read their own words below.

In 1996 the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society released a video entitled “Stand Firm”. This video along with countless articles published by the Watchtower Society have constantly boasted about the strict neutrality of Jehovah’s Witnesses during World War II and Nazi Germany. Most is true, and it certainly is commendable, and noble of the many fine witnesses that stood firm for their supposed integrity to Jehovah. But sadly, their loyalty, as sincere as it was, was to an organization, a self appointed “slave class of men".

At first the Nazi party did not threaten the Watchtower organization with opposition, and allowed them the freedom to preach their version of the “good news.” But as soon as the Nazi’s started opposing and putting pressure on them, the Watchtower Society took a 180% turn against the Nazi regime.

Instead of publicly admitting their own support for the Nazi party before opposition, the Watchtower Society suppresses and hides statements, such as the ones quoted below against the Jewish people in this 1934 yearbook. This is nothing short of dishonesty to

protect a man made organization. An honest and open reading of the below quotes truly shows the Watchtower Society’s compromise with Adolph Hitler in the 1934 yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Thousands of Watchtower articles continue to quickly point out how the churches of Christendom compromised their integrity to Hitler and Nazi Germany, however they do not bring out, or admit to their very own compromise as shown here below. Apparently, by admission, this would make their organization in the same level as “Christendom”, which they interpret to be “Babylon the Great” of Revelation chapters 17 & 18. Finally, after many years in a 1998 Watchtower they have made admission to these statements, however this admission of guilt is completely negated as they hypocritically continue to discredit and condemn Christendom for the same actions she took.

Page 134: “The greatest and the most oppressive empire on earth is the Anglo-American empire. By that is meant the British Empire, of which the United States of America forms a part. It has been the commercial Jews of the British-American empire that have built up and carried on Big Business as a means of exploiting and oppressing the peoples of many nations. This fact particularly applies to the cities of London and New York, the stronghold of Big Business. This fact is so manifest in America that there is a proverb concerning the city of New York which says: The Jews own it, the Irish Catholics rule it, and the Americans pay the bills.”

Page 135: “The present government of Germany has declared emphatically against Big Business oppressors and in opposition to the wrongful religious influence in the political affairs of the nations. Such is exactly our position:”

Page 136: “Instead of being against the principles advocated by the government of Germany, we stand squarely for such principles, and point out that Jehovah God through Christ Jesus will bring about the full realization of these principles and will give to the people peace and prosperity and the greatest desire of every honest heart.”

Page 137: “A careful examination of our books and literature will disclose the fact that the very high ideals held and promulgated by the present national government are set forth in and endorsed and strongly emphasized in our publications and show that Jehovah God will see to it that these high ideals in due time will be attained by all persons who love righteousness . . . .

Page 138: “Let us remind the government and the people of Germany, that it was the League of Nations compact that laid upon the shoulders of the German people the great unjust and unbearable burdens. That the League of Nations compact was not brought forth by the friends of Germany.”

The Real Danger of the

Watchtower’s Admission to Compromise

Unlike most of the Protestant denominations and the Catholic church openly apologizing for their compromises and wrong actions they took, the Watchtower Society stand much more to loose by their

Finally, after many years of denial, in 1998 the Watchtower Society has made admission to these statements written in the 1934 yearbook. This admission of guilt is completely negated as they hypocritically continue to discredit and condemn Christendom for the same actions she took. In addition, this compromise of integrity, undermines their theology: the claim of God’s complete rejection of the entire realm of Christendom and the sole appointment of the Watchtower Society as God’s only channel of communication on earth, as the so called “faithful and discreet slave class.”

admission. Their very theology depends on it. They are caught in a theological interpretation backfire. Unlike most Christians who solely base their faith in God and Christ alone, Jehovah’s Witnesses, represented by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, boldly base their faith in this organization as God’s sole channel of communication on earth to all of mankind. They brazenly claim to be the “faithful and discreet slave class,” who were appointed as such in the year 1918, 3 and 1/2 years after their unique interpretation of parousia, Christ’s second coming, interpreting this to be an invisible presence of Christ where he rules invisibly, judging the nations and all religious organizations. For the Watchtower Society, to live up to their self appointment as God’s “slave class,” even though they admit and allow mistakes of imperfect men who make human errors, must still be clean, maintain integrity and act in proportion according to the mercy and justice of God. By their admission of out right written statements supporting probably one of the worst know men of evil, Adolph Hitler, one our centuries most notorious ethnic cleansing leader, does not go well with their divine appointment as God’s sole and only channel of communication to mankind on the planet earth, along with their claim of a complete rejection of the entire realm of Christendom as outcasts and subject to death by God.

Frequently the Watchtower will quote prophecies of Jeremiah and other prophets directed at the apostate nation of Israel who turned her back on YHWH and were in line for harsh disciplinary judgment, and apply their words to all of Christendom, lock, stock and barrel, with blanket condemnations. They on the other hand, as God’s sole appointed “faithful and discreet slave class,” maintained their integrity at all times, unlike all other Christian denominations on the face of the earth. Their admission and apology to their compromise of integrity and failure to obey God and show true agape love, compassion and conviction towards their fellow man, particularly the Jews, breaks down their very foundation theology and claim of being God’s only true people, his witnesses, on earth. Yet this is the truth and this is what happened,

To confirm that the above information is accurate, please see for yourself this 1934 yearbook in your local Kingdom Hall library.

Sie, Im not asking ANYONE who reads this thread to join any club, sect, cult or any other little fundamentalist money grabbing group..All im asking is just do some research to try and get an understanding of the bible. Then form your own opinion..

I have over many years. It's a work of fiction. The end.

Kiwi,

You post great stuff for a kid that learnt about the bible in primary school..

and secondary school.

What are you saying exactly. I never was taught to take it literally in it's entirety. That would be moronic.

Beyond that here's a fact for all christians. Jesus never said the things he says in the bible. They we're attributed to him... hundreds of years later.

What im saying Kiwi...Is that you wouldnt act like you do if you have read and "understand" the bible..

The "reading" part was never a problem in the past for anyone...Yeah, yeah, yeah ive read the bible word for word etc and its all messed up and has little substance, its contradictory, its flawed, it dosnt fit in, blah blah blah...We've all been there..

But do some homework and can get unbiased material available to research it all yourself.. It opens sooo many doors in understanding EVERYTHING!

I said this before you freak.

You and yours think that anyone that has read the bible and does not believe didn't read it properly, doesn't "understand".

How about you read it for what it is. Written by man, used to control peasants.

Kiwi,

You post great stuff for a kid that learnt about the bible in primary school..

and secondary school.

What are you saying exactly. I never was taught to take it literally in it's entirety. That would be moronic.

Beyond that here's a fact for all christians. Jesus never said the things he says in the bible. They we're attributed to him... hundreds of years later.

Do I believe in Jesus Christ = yes

Do I believe in evolution = no

Do I believe there are reputable scientists in all fields that have delved, probed and studied into evolution, yet see flaws = yes

Do I believe in any flaws in the bible = no

Do I believe there are flaws in R'metric dating methods = yes

Do you think it is realistic to expect mankind to have entirely figured out the entire scientific process and stages of evolution and have provided fossil evidence to support it, despite the fact fossils are as Bicks has pointed out rather limited.

Can you explain where dinosaurs sit within the creation story, or how about neanderthal's? Did Noah include a couple of them on his ark?

I struggle to see how anyone can dismiss science because there might be a few gaps here or there in favour of total belief in a book that was written 2000 years ago. A book that has been edited and changed throughout the ages to bend man's will to the power of an elite few.

You may well be right that there are areas to be questionned and further studied within the process of evolution, we will likely never have all the answers.

Yet you are by your own admission prepared to accept the bible as being without any flaws! If you think there are a few gaps in the theory of evolution then you seems to be willfully oblivious to the fact you can walk a few dinosaurs through the holes in the bible.

Let me guess dinosaurs weren't real and are a creation of the follower of the devil doing his work here on earth!

No flaws in the bible? That is your problem right there.

Great post...

The dinosaurs lived with man, this is mentioned in the bible. Why couldnt they go on the Ark? where's the holes in the bible on this matter? Most of the dinosaurs came from eggs, does the bible say Noah took fully grown animals on the Ark? If so, I havnt read or seen that..Also in the bible, God chose the animals and delivered them to Noah...It was up to God which animals were to be saved. And I think if God could create a universe, delivering a few animals to the Ark wouldnt have been difficult....Aslo, if you think dinosaurs are millions of years old, why? Have you researched it? Or do you just believe what a bunch of old scientists and the media have told you?

not really read the bible cover to cover but would love to know if there are any proper gruesome stories, or raunchy stories in there.

a modern take on the bible would be awesomes.

David OWNS Goliath etc etc

Watch Hollywood movies