LakotaDakota

7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

So 15% of the 39% of people who have died will have died this year anyway.

That's about 5% of the total.

So of 20,000 people dead in the UK, 1,000 of them would have died this year anyway.

 

So what about the other 19,000?

No, that is only over 85s. Plenty of 65-84 would also have died, as would some random  younger ones, especially those that already have existing health conditions like just about every single person dying of covid ag age is far from the only factor here.

19 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

No shit

Obviously I know he wasn't speaking about my relatives in particular ffs  
I was making a point that old people who probably would have died anyway are SOMEBODY'S relatives. And they matter. Whether they would have died in a couple of years or not

I agree

They are someones relatives, may well be mine but if they are over 85 then the sad reality is that 15% of them will probably die this year anyway .Hell my one remaining grandparent died 4 weeks ago when I was in quarantine. It was shit, I couldn't go to see her in hospital, couldn't be there with my parents, 1 of whom couldn't go either due to having heart surgery recently. There were 5 people at the funeral which would have usually had 200+. Everything about it was & is shit.not that it really matters but She didn't die of covid, she died of being old, just happened to be at the worst possible time.

Anyway, onto more important stuff

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

'The majority of deaths involving COVID-19 have been among people aged 65 years and over (8,998 out of 10,350), with 39% (3,485) of these occurring in the over-85 age group.'

(from: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19roundup/2020-03-26)

As we have discussed before, everybody 'would have died anyway'. Men aged 85 live for more than 5 more years on average, while for women that is 6 (see, for instance: https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files/statistics/life-expectancy-at-scotland-level/nat-life-16-18/nat-life-tabs-16-18-pub.pdf)

 

Nowhere have i said everyone would have died, an awful lot of over 85s would have though.

I have the 2017 figures handy so will go with those

498,882 deaths in England. 341,620 (68.5%) of these were people 75 & over

59% Of this 341,620 were 85 & over. That's over 200,000 people 85 & over died in a single year in England.

The population of england is/was made up of approximately 1.35 million people over 85 years old. 15 % of them died in 2017

If we are taking the figures you have quoted of 3485  people over 85 dying with covid are correct then you would imagine that perhaps 523 (15%) of those would maybe have died anyway based on the whole years info from 2017? Obviously this is just the over 85's. Again if your figures of nearly 90% of covid deaths are over 65 a proportion of these would also have died anyway.

I'm sure if we find figures from one of the fun flu yeears they would be an awful lot higher than 15%

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/death-in-people-aged-75-years-and-older-in-england-in-2017/death-in-people-aged-75-years-and-older-in-england-in-2017

Approximately half a million people die in England each year, two-thirds of whom are aged 75 years of age and older. Life expectancy has risen over the past 25 years, and as such, the fraction of people aged 75 years and older has risen and is projected to continue to rise.

As a result, the number of deaths in this age group is rising at an accelerated rate. The population of England is ageing, and this has important implications for the provision of end of life care, which the NHS intends to personalise and improve in the coming years

18 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Do you understand exponential growth?

Is it something like this?

27 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I just don't understand you constantly pushing the idea that this is just business as normal. 

Why has the world shut down if people dying is just the same as every year? 

but people do die every day, 150,000+ every single day, 6,000 every hour. 2/3 of these are of age related causes.

This has been going on for 3 months now and only now has the worldwide death total even eclipsed the number of people that die every single day. Still over 50% of the covid deaths are over 85 years old & like it or not an awful lot of these 90,000 or so over 85's would have died anyway, that's what happens when you get to be over 85, a lot of people die. in this country 20%+ of every single death take place in care homes, Why? because care homes are full of old people....

the first official corona death was on Jan 11th, 101 days have now passed since then. At a relatively conservative average estimate (not even taking into account the usual higher death tolls in jab/feb) around 15 million people have died in this time. There have officially been just under 172,000 deaths attributed to corona in this time. That accounts for 1.14% of the total deaths. if it were possible to remove the severley ill/extremely elderly that have died with it this figure would easily be under 1%

2000 people die every single week in lombardy italy, always have, always will. 12000 have died there with corona in 2 months...

People are terrified of death, someone on here, may even have been you even said the other day the objective of life is to live as long as possible.

Is it really? Are people that terrified of dying that they simply want to exist for as long as humanly/mechanically possible even with pretty much no standard of life?

Having had elderly relatives die this year already that were in homes/hospices & in a pretty bad way i'm not sure that any of them saw waking up every day with the aid of a machine a huge massive achievement 90 years into their life

ignoring the headlines & mass hysteria for a second has anyone even got a clue how many deaths there are in care homes every day? Best i can find reasonably quickly is around 300 people every single day, approx 106,000 every year which made up more than 20% of all deaths but this is from 2014 and wouldn't be surprised if this has gone up at least 25% since then as it was forecast to more than double by 2040.

1 in 5 deaths are already in care homes without covid being a factor, has this changed at all or is it just more clickbait hysteria?

"1000 people dead in a week in care homes" looks like quite a scary headline

"1000 people dead in a week in care homes but on average this figure is usually around 2000 per week anyway" isn't quite so scary

If anything it looks to be down, and possibly by some way...

using the upto april 10th figures being blasted everywhere today:

hospitals 8,673

care homes 1,043

home 466

Want to see how many old people died in care homes of flu this year? it will be more than all of the above figures combined

1 hour ago, sne said:

Apparently the price of WTI-oil (West Texas Intermediate according to internet) has dropped 90% today from an already low point. It has dropped from $60 to $1 per barrel since the new year and is at a record low.

The fact that the price collapsed on precisely the US WTI oil is due to a concern that Oklahoma oil reserves will soon be full.

At the same time, Brent oil has fallen about six percent, to just over $ 26 per barrel.

Seems to have reached minus $37 per barrel which technically means oil companies are paying buyers to take their oil as nobody wants it and they have nowhere to put it.

39 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

So an updatd to Mrs feeling unwell and being sent home from work NHS. They send someone out with a testing kit, arrived yesterday, had it collected like 15 minutes later.  I think it went to the QE in Birmingham,  had results back today already and Mrs is..............Positive. Not sure if she is about over it as she has had mild symptoms for about 7 days but no shock to us. Obviously knows she caught it from work probably through lack of PPE. But now I felt a little rough too over the past week too, feel ok now, but have I had it? No way of knowing as they are not really checking general public are they, which is why figures for contracting it are way out.

Sorry to hear this & hope she just ends up with the crappy cold bit before being fine in a week or two, same goes for you. Kinda shows how pointless any of the numbers are though. If you have been living in the same house/in the same bed etc then there is a very high chance that you have it/have had it and will have given it to anyone you have come into contact with over the past week or so but you will not be tested, nor will anyone else so will not be counted. This could be easily be 20,000 dying with symptoms out of 10 million+ cases but nobody has got a clue. Given that they make up such a small section of society The sheer amount of celebs/athletes/piliticians etc that have apparently tested positive would indicate that this is incredibly widespread. there is no possible way that 120,000 cases is even anywhere near correct. Could easily be that many people getting it and mostly being fine every single day

6 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

like people who die from Covid-19. 

I guess it is the from/with/of bit that is the issue.

1 hour ago, jackbauer24 said:

I thank those who are willing to discuss but, funnily enough, I'm loving the lockdown on a personal level so even if this was forever it wouldn't bother me personally! I still believe there is a lack of critical thinking taking place and we are making judgements out of fear. I hope I'm right (as mine is a more optimistic view) but can accept that I may not be. However i encourage all to look more closely at data - there's a good article that is updated on the BBC that tries to explain figures which broadly aligns to my thinking.

We won't know, and possibly never will definitively, the right or wrong way to deal with this. However I believe Sweden are approaching this in a more measured way and we'll get an indication of how succesful or not that is only months/years after this has largely passed. 

Guess we'll find out soon enough when 17 million unemployed americans decide they are going back to work in the next week or two.

The whole would you rather lose 30% of your salary or your mom analogy thing is shite, It isn't that at all. It's mass unemployment by the million, entire towns/high streets that were already struggling potentially gone & not coming back. Look at america, fain enough 40,000 people looks like a huge number but about 8,000 people on average die every single day in america, 2/3 months into this and the numbers haven't even got to what would be an average week of people dying.

Jump to italy, thousands dying looks horrible. Lombardy, the worst place in the world....in 2018 there were just under 100000 deaths in the lombardy region alone, That's nearly 2000 per week, there have, so far been 12,000 deaths attributed to covid in lombardy in nearly 3 months.... 400 or so mostly old people die there every single day even before covid, If these are all being recorded as of/with covid then the numbers can never actually go down 

2 hours ago, leemond2008 said:

Yeah but honestly what could they say to help? 

The problem has been being confined to 2 rooms 23 hours a day for 28 days with at least another 21 days to come, Samaritans can't help with that.

I took the decision to see a mate for a few hours and I won't do it again for another 3 or 4 weeks but when I feel like I'm sinking again they yeah, I'll go and see him again.

honestly if you're feeling bad about going out just have a look at this and don't worry about it:

It seems about half the population are barely leaving the house at all, 40% are out and about every day as they are at work which may or may not be anything essential and 10% are just carrying on completely as normal

Worst case just arrange to see someone you know out for 10/15 mins every now & then. Organise shopping/excercise together or something, keep your distance but have a chat at the same time. Bumped into an old bloke i speak to at the football sometimes yesterday and had a chat with him for 15 mins, he was stood a good 10ft+ away but was nice to have a bit of a catch up

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8232453/Britons-flock-shops-non-essential-shopping.html

Britons continue to flout the criteria for essential shopping - as shoppers were today seen snapping up plants, drones, mirrors and pillows.

In Plymouth, hundreds of shoppers were spotted at The Range, buying a variety of items not considered to be 'basic necessities'.

5 hours ago, sidcow said:

Yes, once players see nothing to play for anymore, in empty stadiums or training pitches, it's really difficult to see them going hell for leather.  It might come down to how many on the beach teams each relegation candidate has to play compared to others. 

You might see some very silly results with some big clubs getting a right hiding which would never happen even when their season is over in front of full stadiums in a normal end of season encounter. 

More music nobody has heard of...

Debut album out today

10 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Where you see that when i go on site its online con artists selling for double the price?

sorry looks like they have gone again. When i replied earlier they were available direct from amazon for 79.99 showing as being back instock on the 25th. Would let you add to basket & checkout. Could just be worth keeping an eye out to see if they come back or check smyths toys over the next few days as they always seem to get stock allocated a day or so after amazon.

Have just checked and amazon.fr have them listed for 79.99 euros if you're quick

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

Man i really want ring fit but its bloody sold out eveywhere. Didnt realise be this popular

shhhhh............ but amazon have them on back order for the 25th if you can wait a week and don't want to pay £150+ on ebay

On 13/04/2020 at 22:50, Brumerican said:

It really is the best film nobody saw.

As much as i like Olivia Wilde, Just watch superbad again instead. Booksmart is one of the most overrated movies of the past few years.

8 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Some of you may remember a post I made on here a while ago about homeless people sleeping in marked grids in car parks in Las Vegas, rather than in any of the empty luxury hotels in the immediate vicinity, so an update on that is . . . .of course it's still **** happening:

 

except that it isn't, about $8 million spent on this so far

https://www.lasvegasnevada.gov/News/Blog/Detail/iso-q-complex-for-homeless-patients-opens

The joint Clark County-City of Las Vegas ISO-Q (Isolation and Quarantine) Complex at Cashman Center is now open

For the safety of all, and due to HIPAA requirements, there will be no visitors allowed at the site once patients begin to arrive. Only homeless persons with appropriate referrals from medical providers, and the Cashman ISO-Q staff, will be housed at the complex.

The city will oversee operations and security for the complex. Volunteers from Team Rubicon, an organization that mobilizes veterans to help with response and recovery from disasters and crises, has also been instrumental in working to prepare the complex.

Construction on the complex began March 31 by Vision Building Systems, and it will support up to 500 patients. It is believed that the Cashman ISO-Q Complex is a first of its kind facility in the nation. It serves the homeless population as a built from the ground up preemptive observation care facility. The complex has separate areas for homeless people who are quarantined because they were exposed to the coronavirus but have no symptoms, an isolation area for those who have symptoms and are awaiting test results, and a third section for those who are in isolation with confirmed coronavirus test results.

Those in need of quarantine or isolation who have referrals from area hospitals/medical providers or the Southern Nevada Health District will be transported to the complex by ambulance. Hospitals will continue to provide care for the seriously ill and those in need of a ventilator.

The city of Las Vegas has provided perimeter fencing, Wi-Fi, potable water and sewer connection. The tents have heating/air conditioning, power, lights and 10’ by 10’ individual rooms. There are separate tents and restroom/shower facilities for those in quarantine and those in isolation; there are separate staff restrooms for those serving each population.

United Healthcare and WBF Management LLC will supply complimentary meals to patients and staff. AT&T is providing connectivity for the complex through FirstNet, and Hotel Restaurant Furniture Liquidators has provided televisions. Contractors are furnishing trash/medical waste disposal, laundry, security, nursing/clinical observation, case management and personal protective equipment.

Clark County and the city of Las Vegas are jointly funding the facility. In addition, The Mayor's Fund for Las Vegas LIFE is assisting with processing donations for the complex.

Gordon, Gino & freds road trip (Gordon Ramsay, Gino D'Acampo & Fred Sirieix) is actually pretty entertaining in a laddish kinda way. You can see the 3 of them genuinely get on well and are enjoying what they are doing which helps. It's basically Clarkson/Hammond/May Top Gear with food instead of cars

27 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

32 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Yeah the second season is about a lot more stuff that I can relate to and care about. 
 

As interesting as it is, I don’t really care about the Von erichs or Moolah. Or even macho man and Elizabeth. 
 

Anywhere I can watch the second season? Or you know... small rivers and that

if you click on the video posted by the_steve a couple of posts above yours the same guy has most of season 2 uploaded too (seems to be missing part 2 of benoit)

The figures also show that deaths from heart disease are massively down on what they would usually be, Guessing the majority of these are now listed as covid or have thousands of people suddenly stopped dying of heart issues?

All figures are from the ONS, Mail have chucked them all on one page

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8225245/What-coronavirus-death-figures-REALLY-show.html

Data compiled by the Office for National Statistics broke down the details of all the COVID-19 victims who succumbed to the illness in March