nazvfc

I think some of us are barking up two different trees in appraising Randy Lerner.

He is responsible for all senior appointments, but he is not responsible to my knowledge for choosing the players that join our club, however the failure to sign players to take the club forward was the responsibility of the respective managers.I exclude PL as he has not had access to the level of funding the other 3 have.

If he was alive today, I am sure Brian Clough would endorse my point. He always claimed Owners were old farts that knew nothing about football and were only there to provide the money....a bit tongue in cheek, but it was his way of saying, buying players to build football team is MY responsibility.

I know football has changed, but some principles are still much the same....managers choose players and live and die, by those decisions.....when they go wrong, they do an "Oliver twist" and go back for more....it's then that owners reserve the right to decide whether they trust said manager, with THEIR money.

Randy can only be directly responsible for choosing the manager, the actions of the manager is not so easy to blame him for.

Spot on TRO mate - now that was a manger of the highest order!

Are you ITK? You talk about opinions as if they're fact.

They must be mate - they surely must know something that we are not privvy to. Seems to be the same line as last season when they were positive Benteke was gonna go and be sold for a pittance because the board have no backbone.

 

I don't think this is true but say it was. Why would you have faith in an owner who 100% trusted a man with no football background picking a manager?

Hmmm, Pochettino, Pellegrini, Rodgers, Mourinho.........

All picked by men with 'no football background'

Whatever 'football background' is...

 

They must be experts in Fifa 2014 or Championship Manager. Seems to be the criteria from what I gather reading some of the posts in VT (and other forums) so they must be suitably qualified.

Absolute Bollocks - say what you like  - Doug Ellis Loves Doug Ellis. That's why he tried to wipe out any memories of the league Champions and European Cup Winners. Did nothing to honour them or to commemorate them - A TRUE Villa fan would cherish those memories and not try to wipe them off. If he loved them so much (like ****) why did he not have them come back and parade the players on the pitch and honour them when it was the 20th Anniversary - Why because he hates it that he did not have a part to play in it.

Paraded himself around Wembley at teh F A Cup final taking all the adulation from the fans directed at HIM. Egocentric  knob of the highest order HD Ellis OBE (Obscenely Big Ego).

By the way I think you get the message I can't stand the F****r

I obviously get the bashing of Doug but that man seriously cares about this club

He MAY care about the club (changing allegiance from SHA boardroom to the Villa boardroom) in 1968 but he does NOT give a flying fig (f**k) about the 'man on the terrace' (or a genuine Villa fan to you and me!).

Don't want him back - haven't got enough in the kitty for incontinence pants for him - probably have to change the seat cushions where he sits cos of the 'wee' smell.

 

The so called plan isn't working though is it?

depends on what you see as the being "the plan", I see it that he had a 5 year plan to replace all the over-paid players that feel they are owed a place in the team whilst putting minimum effort in, with young, hungry players that want to play for the club and reducing the wage bill at the same time. These players will need to time to adapt and learn the ways of the premiership and some players will not be good enough so will move on but did not cost the earth anyway so were not a high financial risk.

 

He is not even half way through that plan yet and has already made a significant impact whilst keeping the clubs premiership status (which was always going to be at risk given that he took on a team of relegation candidates and then began a mass player replacement).

 

Alex ferguson won nothing with United during his first 5 years at the club despite inheriting a better team than PL did here. We may not know the full depth of PL's plan, his targets or indeed his daily attempts to improve us but we do know that our wage bill has reduced, our players are making an effort and Lambert has not finished his plan and has not run out of ideas.

 

If we replaced our manager every two years we will never get anywhere because the re-building will just keep starting again and again. He needs time and our backing. When he is done we can criticise, complain or enjoy his success. Time will tell but you cant write off his work when you havent seen the finished product.

 

In Lambert I trust!

 

Another good post.

 

 

Ignoring the usual petty sarcasm I've asked you on four occasions now to produce a simple stat of Lambert's match record during his tenure with us and on every occasion you have refused.

I've asked you to do this because previously you seem very willing to pull a graph out of your back pocket to try and prove that Lambert is doing a good job. One would assume that one of the most telling factors whether Lambert is doing a good job or not is our overall match record under him, yet as I say, you refuse to show this.

 

But indignantly demanding that someone you're disagreeing with post the particular stat that supports your own position isn't petty?   If you've got an argument to make, make it yourself.

 

The basic disagreement between the "Lambert apologists" and the "Negative Nellies" mostly boils down to their interpretation of what rebuilding entails and what's the best approach in the long run.  It's clear Lerner, Lambert and Faulkner all agreed it's best to start from scratch with young (mostly), hungry, passionate players on similar (mostly) wages to bond and get the high-earners out the door.  This approach required spreading the transfer kitty and salary funds among more players, with the obvious sacrifice in quality and greater risk of signing flops.   It also means risking relegation for a season or two until ther funds can go to quality vs. quantity.  But if the plan works, the club is in a good position financially and can start rewarding the players who did well with better contracts and replacing those who didn't with better quality at higher wages without blowing the wages out of the water again.  If you accept this approach, then the club's record since Lambert took over isn't necessarily the most important measure of success at this point in the project, as long as the club stays up.  At the moment, you could argue that Lambert has been successful, if only by a margin, against this measure.  If the rest of the plan plays out (relegation is avoided, money from clearing out dead wood is made available for better players in the summer), next season is the real test of both Lamber and Lerner.   Football style and results need to be significantly better and showing signs of continuous improvement.

 

If you don't agree that a total clearout was necessary, as a number of you don't, then of course it's hard to view Lambert as being successful.   As you've argued, the transfer funds could have gone to fewer players of higher quality and results likely would have been better to date.  The question is whether the club would be better posed for a resurgence after this season under this scenario.  You clearly believe so.   Team togetherness and the ability to build up from a good foundation, both football-wise and financially, would probably not be as good but maybe results would be similar without having had to go through 2 seasons of relagation risk and unattactive football.  We may never know.

 

Lambert was clearly brought on board to do the job in a particular way.  Slate him for choosing to go along with the plan if you want, or slate Lerner for hiring a manager to take this approach.   But given the job he was asked to do, I don't think Lambert's been too bad.

 

I don't post much being of the 'old gits' who've supported Villa UNCONDITIONALLY for 53 years,but THIS is the best post I have read in many a year. Good one il_serpente, 

But then I'm sure this will be denigrated by some.

 

Well you must be posting from some kind of parallel universe where Villa are in the top 6 playing scintillating football.

Meanwhile the rest of us are having to put up with a Villa team who over the last year or so have seen some of the most humiliating defeats in our entire history.

You're having a laugh mate.

 

I've been putting up with `The Villa` since 1968.

 

I was putting up with Villa around 6 years before that too. The times between 1962 and 68 were much much worse than this - then it was an even playing field - no rich owners - but we were bankrupt (nearly) - the fans came and helped restore the ground by painting the stadium and tending the pitch. 

I really do wonder what some of the 'modern day' fan would do if we were in that situation. IF and this is a BIG IF we got relegated I am sure some would disappear into the internet ether and only return when we are successful. Not having a go but my opinion based on lurking and only just string to post.

Think some of those with the loudest voices are those who have only followed Villa post 1981/2 (or since the Preeemeirship) came into being - not having witnessed what to me personally were much worse times than these.

Not having a go but I read about getting banners and leaflets out - well myself and quite a few others got up off our arses and put our money where our mouth was - the £ signs galvanised the fans and we managed to get Angel. The Ellis Out stuff may not have been successful but kept the pressure on the 'owner' (or the man who thought he was the owner). 

If you feel so much hate or animosity against Lerner - do something - don't fight amongst yourselves - you all have something in common - a love of the Villa.

But I think you feel safer in moaning on the boards and fighting amongst each other than putting your head above the parapet.

Times are not as bad as you think (It's great in hindsight to point to everything). 

Things can only get better and mark my words after all the shit since the revolution of 68 - this is nothing. We came back stronger and we will again. Flame me all you want but I have been through worse shit than the last 3 odd years.

 

Too many in my 52 years a fan but one that does stand out for atmosphere and everything that goes with it.

We were a lowly div 3 side and we played the mighty Man U with George Best, Bobby Charlton, Alex Stepney, Dennis Law et all and we won 2-1. Cud be the Santos game but I believe there were near on 60k at the game (my old memory might be playing tricks!),

 

That was one  - the other was v Bournemouth, Notts County in Div 3.

 

Those 3rd division days were magical Naz. Those Goals by Lochhead & McMahon v Man U were electric. Can still see Ray Graydon diving to head that winner against Notts County too & bloody Ted McDougal putting Bournemouth 1-0 up at Villa Park until Geoff Vowden & Lochhead turned it around in the second half to secure our 2-1 win. Great days, no question.

 

True mate - very true - that was when real footballers played not the namby pamby little kick and roll around dead. Fans sttod by the team thru thick and thin. Loved the away days and the terrace banter. Bring back standing and get rid of the 'prawn brigade'

Too many in my 52 years a fan but one that does stand out for atmosphere and everything that goes with it.

We were a lowly div 3 side and we played the mighty Man U with George Best, Bobby Charlton, Alex Stepney, Dennis Law et all and we won 2-1. Cud be the Santos game but I believe there were near on 60k at the game (my old memory might be playing tricks!),

That was one  - the other was v Bournemouth, Notts County in Div 3.

Things weren't much better in the old H&V days. Though at least we all had a common cause then, one which some contributors to this thread have either forgotten or don't know of.

I'm in North London now. Used to live south east, Blackheath.

Very true - as I said very short memories and a lack of patience (which we had to have a lot of pre Sky and Premier League).Sad days for both sides with their respective points of view.

Bloody hell, a blast from the past. Hope you're well Naz.

I'm in South East London mate - work in the City but home in Stafford on Weekends!

Bloody hell, a blast from the past. Hope you're well Naz.

Hi Buddy - Yep I'm ok -been through a bit of a rough time (custody battle for my youngest daughter amongst other things). Don't post much cos some of the over reactions to a defeat/win yada yada yada gets on my wick. People have very short memories and lack patience from my days.

Wonder what they would have done if internet was around when we were bust and relegated to the old Div 3 and when Ron Saunders was manager - even then some wanted him gone after 1 season!

Hope you are ok too buddy!

 

 

A humble man  - yeah right - humble my arse - he doesn't know the meaning of the word. Not just me saying this as a personal attack but he definitely is NOT humble.

 

Goes to all our matches - so would I seeing it costs him diddly squat and gets all his champers and lobster and prawns free of charge

 

Knighted due to services for charities - compared to his wealth I've given just as much as have millions of others - who didn't do it for the prestige

Left the club is great shape - er - no - was in debt and made a huge personal fortune out of our club 

Sold cheaply to get the right owner - with the debt it was in it had to be cheap.

 

What's not to like? And those fans phoning his house to abuse him, disgrace! - the last bit I agree with - that was a disgrace!

hi Naz

Hope you are OK?

Leave the deluded fools to it, there were always some who were blind as **** to Ellis's faults!

 

Yeah I'm fine buddy. I know mate - just winds me up all this re-writing of actual facts.

Hope you are ok too mate

 

 

A humble man  - yeah right - humble my arse - he doesn't know the meaning of the word. Not just me saying this as a personal attack but he definitely is NOT humble.

 

Goes to all our matches - so would I seeing it costs him diddly squat and gets all his champers and lobster and prawns free of charge

 

Knighted due to services for charities - compared to his wealth I've given just as much as have millions of others - who didn't do it for the prestige

Left the club is great shape - er - no - was in debt and made a huge personal fortune out of our club 

Sold cheaply to get the right owner - with the debt it was in it had to be cheap.

 

What's not to like? And those fans phoning his house to abuse him, disgrace! - the last bit I agree with - that was a disgrace!

 

 

That last bit was only a disgrace because Ellis the sly, crafty old miser reversed the charges. Yes. Even the call from his mother.

 

That last bit did make me laugh - probably true

 

A humble man  - yeah right - humble my arse - he doesn't know the meaning of the word. Not just me saying this as a personal attack but he definitely is NOT humble.

 

Goes to all our matches - so would I seeing it costs him diddly squat and gets all his champers and lobster and prawns free of charge

 

Knighted due to services for charities - compared to his wealth I've given just as much as have millions of others - who didn't do it for the prestige

Left the club is great shape - er - no - was in debt and made a huge personal fortune out of our club 

Sold cheaply to get the right owner - with the debt it was in it had to be cheap.

 

What's not to like? And those fans phoning his house to abuse him, disgrace! - the last bit I agree with - that was a disgrace!

I'm better than Warnock right now so this lad has to be

Hey up Joe

Is that the new welcome Joe?

Nah - it's the Northern take on the Jimi Hendrix Classic!

Big John: the pound protests pre-JPA were the culmination of exactly all of those matters- years of hair pulling!

There are plenty of valid criticisms you can make of Randy, comparing him with Doug is not one of them given Randy's investment.

Spot on - it was not just a couple of years but a culmination of years and years of hair pulling of a man taking money OUT of the club in bonuses (even when we were running at a loss - once even saying he deserved a bonus for reducing the debt by a couple of million and taking near on 500K). Years of signing shit managers, getting involved in buying players, selling our best players (the same thing RL is accused of). If RL gets us relegated (he may he may not) but UNTIL that happens I will allow him the same amount of time some allowed that previous man.

May I suggest something - all those not happy with RL do what some of us did - don't sit behind a keyboard - turn up and start a campaign to get hin out - or perhaps let's see what pans out between now and January.

Give PL (and Randy) the benefit of the doubt - say more than 2 games ffs and see what happens.

I am glad PL and Villa are keeping transfers close to their chests. Just seen that a player Arsenal were looking at (Nuri Sahin from Real Madrid) has signed for Liverpool. That was public news. Other clubs could easily come in for them if it was public.

IF we don't sign anyone - I am willing to give them time (even as much as we gave TOG) - at least enough games to see how we will do - no-one can predict the results - how many of you would have predicted Man U losing or QPR with all these new players getting stuffed by Swansea.

Just my opinion

I'd take NRC back in a "heartbeat" to coin a VT phrase

Anyway after today we will have just 96 hours left to get some players in and out

You have to keep in mind Saturday is Matchday and Sunday / Monday are days off so after today the phones will be dead til Tuesday am.

No, we have a week.

Reality is no, see above.

I may have been born in the 50's and come from the pre-mobile phone and ipad era - but I do believe there is a thing called a mobile phone or some such gadget that the players agents carry around 24 hours of the day.

I am sure if Lambert wants a player all he has to do is phone the agent. Agents are like bloodsuckers taking a cut of the transfer fee etc so do you think Agent A is gonna say to Lambert - F**k Off mate We are on a bank holiday or at a match and too busy?

No - they will take the call and discuss it - as it is in the best interest of the Player/Agent.Manager

But then that would spoil everyone's fun of doom and gloom mongering!

I havent heard anyone say bring back Doug

But even the biggest optimist would have trouble convincing me that we've gone forward on the pitch at all under Randy. Mainly because we clearly haven't

We have off it, in terms of revenue, but you'd be hard pressed to fail on that side of things considering how much the TV income has gone up by

Have to agree, on the pitch, where it matters we haven't progressed as a club after being sold. Which considering how much hatred there was for doug makes it so strange that so many are happy to just accept what ever Lerner serves up.

Doug's last summer transfer window, where he was hated by villa fans, where the majority were desperate for him to leave, where once again he was criticised for his lack of ambition, our net spend on transfer fees for players was around £7.5 million.

Our current net spend for this window is around £5.7 million.

Are we talking the previous summer when D'OL was in charge or just before Randy officially took over? If that 7.5 million was for Petrov then Randy Underwrote that deal - MON wanted Petrov and the deal to take over was not fully finalised - Unless D'OL bought a £7.5 Million signing just before being "sacked". The bit about Petrov we (some of us VFC'ers who had contact with Keith Harris and David Bick) were told by the people consulting Randy regards takeover.

So that's 27,000 odd tickets to the fans - the rest go to the bods and suits - typical! That's the FA for you!

أ.ن. مرحبا, أهلا وسهلا

ص. محتفى به, مرحب به

ف. احتفى, رحب, استقبل

Karim

google translate?

does that mean welcome Karim?

Think Richards been on the lash!

Looks all Arabic to me! :oops:

True - however there can be exceptions made whereby you don't need to fast (if for example your type of work has an effect on your wellbeing if you fast). The person can make up for missing a fast at another time.

My Dad's dad worked as editor of the Villa Programme

My Mum's dad was the Villa coach in the 70's

Passed down through the family

F**K me - must have been a strong bugger carrying the players to and from the grounds. Thought they used Flight's in them days, :? :oops: