Lerner's Driver

1 hour ago, Jareth said:

But what do we call this formidable partnership?

Hodjia?

Kogan?

KodHog?

Kod Hog for me, primarily thanks to the cigar toutin' Dukes of Hazard reference.

Question: is giving 100% every game enough to make you 'a good footballer', or do you need some footballing skill as well? And if a mix of effort and skill are the key ingredients, how much skill do you need to avoid being called shite?

For the sake of argument, Gareth Bale busts a gut most games and is also pretty skilfull, hence obviously, 'a good footballer'.

Hutton obviously doesn't have anything remotely close to Bale's skill, but maybe has 15% of his ability? 

Clearly all guesswork and subjective opinion of course, but in a simplistic, Top Trumps stylee, I'm curious as to what skill level Hutton would have to reach before he and others like him were considered a card worth having when it came to break time in the playground.

The point being, not every card is the Prince of Darkness in a pack of Top Trumps and sometimes even Creature from the Black Lagoon could beat The Ghoul, so surely there's a place for our Al somewhere in the Villa team?

Personally, I think he's closest to The Living Skull from the second edition of Horror Top Trumps and therefore a welcome squad player by anyone's standards.

5 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

Simple

8 wins

No excuses

We finish where we finish.

Our season was lost twice

I demand to know what you think of Steve Bruce after each match whether we win or lose, but especially if we lose and I expect your thoughts to be submitted in a long list.

No excuses.

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

I'll give you my answer if I may.

I'm actually not concerned overly about whether it is 'attractive' as such - for example I love good defensive performances, and good battles, and can't stand tikka takka style football.  I'd say my favourite Villa sides over the last fifty years have never been 'pretty' as such.........but we've never been a Wimbledon either, we have always, at our best, had a solid side with a bit of midfield graft and a couple of good engines, a decent winger and some pace.

SO that is what I, personally, both would like to see and think would be effective against better opposition.

As for what would bring that shift, I think we are very close to it, especially when we put our best Eleven out.  Yesterday was a classic example, where once the changes were made we played like Villa. Huddersfield first half touched on it.

Lansbury is huge for us, as is Hourihane (only slightly less so IMO) - if they really were Bruces choices (and we've no reason to say they weren't, but its possible they were Rounds also) he has chosen a perfect blend which bodes well for his summer spending too.

Some say some of his negative stuff has been forced , others  - like me - think its been a choice. In my view he - rightly - concluded quickly we simply had to build in resilience above all else.............but (again IMO) he overdid it (fair enough he is learning too, we aren't Hull or Wigan, or Blues, and our players and our best way isn't theirs either) and particularly over compensated for the loss of JK and conceding a few goals suddenly in late December/January.  This made him even more conservative (three at the back, that awful selection against Ipswich, wasting Lansbury as a holding MF). 

Which is how we ( needlessly IMO) started yesterday.  The football HAD to be poor - at times we had a line of 6 or even 7 players so when they won the ball there was no outlets.  We only had 2 (3 if you count Amavi) forward thinking players, in Hourihane and Adomah, and they were often both trapped aswell. The system/selection caused the poor football (as IMO it has done on most other occasions we've been poor in quality).

As soon as he changed it we looked a far better side - most crucially the midfield stopped being an extension of the defence and became a link between defence and attack.

I think he is bit like a kid with a new exciting remote control toy - he doesn't want to break it.......so errs on the side of caution (too much for me).....but I am gradually thinking he knows he needs to, and maybe even wants to,  set us up to play a lot more positively.

Terry, I think this is an excellent summary of what is and has been going on. 

I certainly don't think Bruce is perfect, but he is genuinely aware of the privilege he has been afforded, which perversely is probably also one of the main reasons he's been scared to f*** it up - in fact, I think he himself used these words.

Such an admission could be fuel for criticism because we are Villa we expect the best, blah, blah, but I think he is still prepared to learn primarily because this is such a big opportunity.

I also particularly liked your description of the Villa way, which I agree at its best has always been more about free flowing effective football, rather than pretty passing. 

I think fluent is what we all want, including Bruce and I think he will deliver eventually.

7 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I have to be fair and say that the football today was **** awful. By the same token we weren't exactly 'lucky', we ground it out. 

The semblance of a quality side is there, and we are making it count with results. If we can do that for another 54 games or so we will be in the Premier League again. Where we belong.

I know it's the million dollar question Dave, but in your opinion, what might bring about the eventual shift to 'attractive', as well as successful? Do you think that matters to Bruce and that he wants that too? I do.

Gotta love these wins... Delighted for Hogan. Still not fluent, but I still think we are slowly improving. Well done Steve Bruce.

1 minute ago, Ponky said:

I guess the last place you want to bring in players returning from injury is a potato field

Steve Bruce may not agree

The tinkering makes me nervous, especially against a poor team, but still think we'll do 'em 2-0.

7 hours ago, srsmithusa said:

The first message of confident assurance I read on here (From TRO a week or so ago) did give me a bit more hope for "Brucie."   Now we're seeing so many of these "relax, leave it to Bruce, trust me, I've seen worse, I'm confident it will all be OK, you just have to be patient," it's beginning to remind me of the cartoon version of Jungle Book with Kaa the snake singing "trust in me."

I'm at the point that the "trust Bruce to get it right" is now striking me as either manipulative or naive.

It is a big, bloody disaster that ASTON VILLA is in the championship.  It is doubly so that we will (almost certainly) be there again another season.  I'm not content with "it's all gonna get better soon."  I am content with 4 wins out of the last 5.  But I'm sick and tired of assurances and optimism.  I want results and I want responsibility.  Now!!!!  Not when some mythical, hoped for key that's sure to be arriving soon, all turns up right.  Right now (the last 5 games) the results have been good.  I'm fine with that.  But I'm not naive enough to think that 5 games equals a permanent trend.  (If that were the case these last 5 would have never happened because the results were utter crap for 2 months before that.)

I'll keep saying it, this acceptance of crap as the best we can expect considering ________________ is the result of long-term neglect by the previous owner and has become ingrained into our culture.  It's poison, it is the Villa curse, and it needs to be eliminated.

 

The Bruce baiting thing on here has got a weird habit of vomiting up its bile randomly out of the blue, irrespective of current results and its always the same kind of irrational ranting, 'I demand this now because we are Aston Villa'. Makes you wonder if some people are just spouting the same tripe under different usernames.

I remember randomly seeing him in a televised Rangers Champions League match when he tore his opposite number a new one marauding down the wing and thinking he is superb. Spurs signed him shortly afterwards, but he never quite reproduced his Rangers form for them, which is why we ended up with him.

He's been with us whilst we've been in decline, so has obviously been asked to defend more, which he's clearly decent at, given his physicality, but it's also meant he hasn't felt as comfortable venturing forward, which is the main reason why he has also looked woeful at times when asked to attack.

His confidence and ambition are clearly both growing in line with the team's and that in itself is a pleasing barometer of the progress being made.

36 minutes ago, NottingVilla said:

Meh, was hoping we would lose to speed up the exit of Bruce.

Yawn

2-1 Villa

1 minute ago, sidcow said:

On what basis have you come to this conclusion? 

His expertise as a football fan

22 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Obviously there is a fair dollop of subjectivity in assessing what is lucky and what is a deliberate game plan. 

Thing is, to some the subjective element is not at all obvious. For them it's dogma all the way and things are either absolutely right or absolutely wrong. Steve Bruce or Wagner's Third. 

3 minutes ago, JE- said:

He was losing that many games b admitted it was the wrong thing to do so he ssaid he is going back to the formation that won us games...

Can you please rewrite this?

Just now, AntrimBlack said:

her

Explains a lot

2 minutes ago, JE- said:

You mean you don't commit to a proper opinion on Bruce so when he messes up you can slide off that other side of the fence and say hello he was crap see I was right all along.. Or if he gets us up you can come down on like  ton of bricks to folks who don't rate him and say the same thing? 

Sorry but this don't wash with me I see right through it 

It's clear as day by the responses I'm getting that Bruce is getting massive defence based on past glory rather than what he is actually achieving at villa which is a disgraceful league position playing disgraceful football 

I've asked the question twice now to disprove your point.. I'm happy to sit back and hear all the reason why Bruce is a good appointment if you take away talking about just promotions.. What other qualitys does the guy possess? 

It's actually not possible to debate with someone who struggles for consistency in stringing sentences together, let alone arguments.

Firstly, what does, "I've asked the question now twice to disprove the point", actually mean? Most probably a Freudian slip.

Secondly, Villa's league position and or style of play are not really 'disgraceful' are they because that is a ridiculous overreaction. They are both 'disappointing' but for anyone with a shred of common sense, they are also 'to be expected' given the circumstances of recent years.

Thirdly, your view is no more 'proper' than anyone elses simply because you come down firmly for or against something and that's the thing you just don't get.

I have no wish to engage with you on the matter of Steve Bruce because you've said it all...

Just now, JE- said:

The 10 seasons is called exaggerating the point... Doesn't make it a lie it makes you stuffy and uptight 

Your defence for him is incredible you must have some shares in Steve Bruce limited or you are alex Bruce

You see, this answer of yours it what infuriates people so much. Your style of discourse is blinkered to such an extent that not only do you continue to stick to your inflexible and monotonously expressed point, but you also wrongly accuse others of doing exactly what you are doing.

You attract criticism not really for the substance of what you say, though that is also questionable, but rather the way you say it. Stevo and others have repeatedly stated that they remain undecided about Bruce, which is actually how we should all feel about every manager all of the time, not just Bruce or Do Matteo or Wagner, all of them.

This is the logical, sensible position to take where you see good and bad in everything. There is no absolute perfect answer in football or life and yet some, like you, insist that there is. You are wrong and it's your failure to see this which winds people up so much.

Continue doing so in a deliberate way and you may just find your freedom of speech curtailed. A little humility goes a long way in good debate.

8 minutes ago, JE- said:

No the low thing is saying 'Bruce' is 11th in a desperate attempt to justify his position 

When he doesn't get us up next season... I'm sure alot of peope who are not overly committing with their thoughts will soon change their tune 

I've been trying to work out precisely what it is that I find so beguiling about you and I think I've finally worked it out. It's your absurd and now (quite frankly) utterly boring absolute certainty and the fact that you just keep saying the same thing again and again. However, I've had a break through, you are actually right, it's time for Steve Bruce to go. I'm not going to give him a chance because I've been persuaded by your passionate and well argued insights. Quite frankly, I'm amazed I took this long to realise I was wrong and you were right all along. Because your opinion.

3 minutes ago, JE- said:

Bruce is 11th Hahahahhahaha haha fckin absolute classic hahaha 

 

 

This a new low, even for you - you're not even bothering to rearrange the order of your bilge now, you are literally just repeating yourself. Tell me, what do you think of Steve Bruce?

I am totally and utterly convinced by my opinion because my opinion and so should you be because my opinion. The fact you you don't agree with my undisputable opinion is frankly amazing because my opinion.

16 minutes ago, JE- said:

I firmly believe Bruce will mess next season up just like how he messed up this one.. And you can all bask in the joy if I'm wrong but I'm willing to wager 200 quid to anyone who thinks we will get up next season under Bruce 

Don't expect anyone will take your bet because if you lose, you're bound to deny reality, disappear and pick another fight somewhere else for the fun of it. Trump really has such a lot to answer for.

15 minutes ago, JE- said:

Anyone who has a clue about football knows that wagner is head and shoulders above Bruce in every single way from tactics to innovation to building sides to playing proper modern day football

Dortmund are likely to want him at some point do you think Dortmund will want Bruce LOL just the mere thought of that is bloody hilarious

Bruce is a soul destroyer and will lose fans going to the ground if this continues...

Bruce won't get us up next season he's out his depth.. Even if he somehow did with his dire football I'd want him out as soon as the promotion is confirmed the premiership is no place for the dinasour that is Bruce 

What do you think of Steve Bruce?