AV82

JJ growing into the game now. 

I’m happier for Diaby than I am for the scoreline. Go on lad.

3/4 of our spine are missing (or out of position) and it shows.

Carlos/Lenglet is not it for me.

Once again they’re not getting yellow cards.

54 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

And we’re third in the league. And I think we’re third in the form over 2023. Just set a club record for home victories. Most number of victories in one year.

Would any of that have happened if mentality was as big of an issue as you insist it is? 

Setting several club records the hallmark of mentally weak sides is it?

I think people forget how to lose when you go on a run like we did at VP. It's understandable, if a little annoying.

3 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

What if we can't spend because of FFP?

Recall Kesler? Try Carlos at RB? There has to be a solution here.

10 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

Doesn't every player? The point being, Kamara not being there wasn't the only reason for this defeat. Dougie as with most the team just weren't at the races after we went 2-0 up. I don't think Kamara alone could have stopped that defeat tonight when nearly everyone was poor

I think we sometimes think those missing are always the answer but collectively we've won with everyone missing at times. I think we have ridden our luck since Arsenal tbh and this along with the Sheff Utd game are examples of us not being at the races. I'm not even sure if it's tiredness, it's seems more like complacency to me. Sloppiness, minimal movement, no zip in our play. We've been collectively slacking imo. 

I want to make it clear that I agree we should still compete and win matches even when missing the likes of Torres and Kamara. 100%. The performance today, all things considered, was not good enough regardless of personnel.

9 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

Doesn't every player? The point being, Kamara not being there wasn't the only reason for this defeat. Dougie as with most the team just weren't at the races after we went 2-0 up. I don't think Kamara alone could have stopped that defeat tonight when nearly everyone was poor

I think we sometimes think those missing are always the answer but collectively we've won with everyone missing at times. I think we have ridden our luck since Arsenal tbh and this along with the Sheff Utd game are examples of us not being at the races. I'm not even sure if it's tiredness, it's seems more like complacency to me. Sloppiness, minimal movement, no zip in our play. We've been collectively slacking imo. 

I suppose in the end it comes down to how fundamental you think that position is to our pattern of play. Perhaps Kamara was the missing piece. Perhaps not. Perhaps Dendoncker specifically being his replacement damaged our build up to such an extent that things then piled up (Utd gaining momentum, galvanised home fans, our boys heads dropping, etc) and the game got away from us. Perhaps not. Perhaps both.

We can agree the loss wasn't a result of us missing one player but what I am saying is that I think it had a huge impact on how Douglas specifically played this match. That then means both our starting CM positions were compromised to some degree which is a vital, vital part of how we play.

A good example is I think we (and Douglas) miss Kamara more than say we (and Konsa) miss Cash.

15 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I'm convinced these big boys can never manage 60 minutes never mind 90 minutes. look at Antonio, Gabby ended up the same way too. You never see these big phyisical guys running marathons, they have the strength but not the stamina.

It would also help explain why he's making silly, careless mistakes late on in the game if he's tired.

5 minutes ago, Risso said:

One of our key moves is the pass out to Kamara with him facing our goal. He then spins deftly left or right to pass the ball and beat the press. Dendoncker just can't do that, at best you're going to get a safe pass back 5 years to a defender.

There was a moment in the second half when he tried just that. Decent first touch, decent spin, sees McGinn in space but then takes about 3 seconds to actually pass it while telegraphing what he is going to do and allowing a pressing player to close the gap and immediately dispossess McGinn as soon as he received the pass. Ginny had absolutely no chance of retaining the ball.

It'd be very easy to throw your arms up and blame McGinn but the problem was Dendoncker taking those few seconds to release the ball which can completely kill an attack and turn the ball over (in a dangerous position too no less). Moments like that stacked up for us today all across the field, giving Manchester United the momentum they needed to turn the game around.

38 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

It's a myth. Kamara was out nearly 2 months last season when we went on the unbeaten run 

He's been great this season but Kamara not playing isn't the reason for this defeat, collectively the team are including the gaffer. 

I didn't say it was. I think Douglas plays better with a capable midfielder alongside him. Tonight he didn't have one.

Just now, HanoiVillan said:

Calum Chambers in midfield at Old Trafford??? Now I've read everything. 

Wait till you see my plans for up front. Jordan Bowery needs to dust off that wheel chair.

3 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Ok I still disagree, but I'll let you have that as you have articulated yourself well. I love good articulation

Thanks. Anyway, I digress, I think it's fair to say that Dendoncker needs to go to a team that will play to his strengths and we urgently need a replacement better suited to our style of play.

4 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Sorry mate, did you actually mean Chambers that's laughable 

 He's slightly more mobile and a better passer than Dendoncker. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying he should start, they both need selling, but it genuinely wouldn't surprise me if he was marginally better than Dendoncker in that position.

52 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

Limited and targeted in the second half by the United press. To see out the last 20 minutes? Sure. 
 
To play away against United. Would rather have mcginn and take other chances up top. 

It really does make you wonder why he didn't try McGinn in the middle again and opt for Diaby up front/out wide. Especially early in that 2nd half when it was plain to see we were struggling.

I thought that crunching tackle on Rashford was one of our few highlights from the game. He did well sweeping up tonight when called upon and also made some fantastic saves, particularly in the first half.

49 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said:

By your post I think you don't understand my point, you need squad players and they will never be as good as your first eleven.

Dendonker starts in some PL teams 

I don't think you understand mine. He does not fit our style of play whatsoever. They might still be shite but I think Pau or Chambers in midfield would be a very slight improvement given the way we play. Dendoncker is a solid midfield option for many Premier League teams. For us he is not.

It was concerning but let's be honest it's hard to shine in a 2 man midfield (Dendoncker and Ramsey invisible) against a rampant United side at Old Trafford. Even then I think I'm being generous as McGinn was nearly as bad as the other two.

42 minutes ago, WHY said:

Luiz has been great but a lot of that is down to having Kamara patrolling behind him. 

Great post, this is incredibly overlooked.

Hard to draw conclusions after the sh*t show that came before him but he's not filling me with confidence. There's a naivety to his game that perhaps he can iron out over time but is that worth the investment? Just doesn't seem like a good fit.

I've cooled off a little (losing in this way to f**king Manchester United of all teams is a kick in the balls).

No Digne (let me count this one), Mings, Pau, Cash.
No Kamara, Tielemans, Buendia.
Ramsey and Moreno well off the pace after returning from injury. Diaby fallen into a black hole.
A knackered Douglas, McGinn and Watkins.
A position way ahead of our squad (taxing schedule in Europe and playing against teams with a close eye on us now).

We might've dropped the ball against Sheffield United and Manchester United.. (c***s).. but we can bounce back.

3 minutes ago, villa89 said:

Obviously not. Can he sit on the bench for while would be a better question. 

He's poor in possession and nearly always gets way too tight to his man, usually ending up giving away a foul. Another slippy G mistake. 

If Cash is out who do we play at RB? Konsa is a must have at CB to steady the ship.

3 minutes ago, villan95 said:

It seems like Emery has decided he is happy with Konsa as the RB. And Ramsey at full flow last season was definitely good enough to start LM, although agree he hasn't been good post injury yet.

I think you're right but I hope not. With Carlos dropping clangers we're missing Konsa's reliability in the middle. I agree Ramsey needs time to sharpen up, more than we thought. We're also desperately missing Tielemans either out on the left or as cover for in the middle.

Never looks in control of the ball at the moment. Needs more time to get up to speed but unfortunately our injuries are forcing him to start when he's not ready.