Super-Villan

I would have thought with the playing a lot of games over a short period that Albrighton would have come in for this one. And given the situation it was amazing that he only came on at 88 minutes. Plus even at that stage we bring on two midfielders for two midfielders. What attacking intent. I have no faith that Randy will sack him though. It's only the 5th Jan, not too late for a new manager to come in and make one or two signings maybe. But if we do it, we'll leave it until after Blues when nowt will get done. It's going to be a depressing season.

Hmmmm, not sure about that. Ireland? Carew? Dunne until today. Let's see how things progress, but freezing players out is at least as bad as sticking with players regardless.

Pretty much this for me too.

I don't think a 7-1 defeat would get Houllier sacked. Seiously.

Smoke and mirrors, like you say. To be honest, I would guess there's a lot of stuff that goes on at many football clubs, on the training ground or wherever, that were it to be made public the fans would have an absolute fit about it. I think it's difficult to know from outside the club exactly what is considered unacceptable behaviour in the football world (though the alleged comments from our LB certainly sound it). And even if the behaviour is unacceptable now, the question is when the player behaviour actually crossed that invisible line. Sure there were supposedly 6 players causing trouble back to last year, but at that stage was it really anything totally out of the ordinary? I just think there are too many unknowns about the player's behaviour for most of the squad to be condemned already.

You'd think if there was already such a poison at the club when he joined, then, you know...someone might have mentioned it to him when he started? And knowing morale wasn't great, well...he might not have done such stupid things to make it even worse like speaking out against players in the press etc. It just seem odd to me that he went about things how he did if the situation was how it has been painted with regards player problems. I'm not saying there are no problems at all, just that I'd be surprised if they weren't still at a very solvable level when Houllier joined us.

If the manager ends up doing a rubbish job, getting behind him might well end up not being the best option. It certainly isn't the only answer.

People say that every week, 'that game would have been ideal for Ireland', yet when he's plays, he's crap. He's played against worse teams than Spurs and made little impact, and more than likely, wouldnt have made the slightest bit of difference today. The last thing we'd have needed was a player that can't be bothered when things aint going his way. Don't play him again, get rid! No, the last thing we needed today was Pires. Ireland hasn't been great for us yet, but he's been better than that useless turd every time he stinks up the pitch in a Villa shirt.

More than Pires I grant you.

I like him but think he'd have done nothing today. I think it's at least partially down to the defensive way that Houllier sets up our team to play right now. (Fair enough if you think Ireland should be able to adjust to that, though I'm not sure I agree 100%, if only because I want us to play more attacking football too.

I think it's also true to say: The manager is clearly incapable, like so many managers of getting the best out of him so its probably best he moves on. How many people have to fail with Ireland before someone asks - Maybe he's just not that good? THIS! THIS! THIS! All wrapped up in a nice patterned paper with a bow on top ready for Santa to put under the tree! Maybe he isn't. It's possible, I grant you. But even in the matches he's played for us we've seen glimpses that he has ability. If he never again plays as well again as he did for Man City a couple of seasons ago then fair enough. But the key for me is that he hasn't even been given the chance to succeed in my opinion. No chance at all.

No he hasn't. He's played deep 3 times and in the hole 5 times. He's produced absolutely **** all in 8 starts. Compare that to someone like Heskey who's started 7 times I believe this season and been excellent. 3 times? That's a number of times, right? So exactly what I said. Glad we've sorted that one. Our back 4 have all been worse than Ireland. Clearly Carew has been worse too, with no excuse at all. For a player having only made 8 starts for a new club where he's already been roundly slated by his manager early on, I'm just amazed he's doing as well as he is.

Well there are plenty of players who came from the same country who needed settling in periods too if you want it that way. Downing for one. He had the excuse of an injury to recover from, and Ireland has the excuse of not playing much football last season and being frozen out at City, plus an understanbable lack of confidence. One of those players was given a chance and is playing brilliantly. The other is being treated like rubbish and forced out of the club. Ireland has played deep midfield a number of times, including the second half of a game recently, I forget which one exactly. Our team is in 15th place and deserves to be because of how we're playing. Either you're saying 15th is successful or the fact that we're in 15th is Irelands fault. I disagree.

If it shows to you that he is more interested in the money, then that is entirely your assumption and nothing to do with whatever the truth might be. There is no evidence for that view at all. It might be his lawyer/agent pushing it and Ireland just saying 'yeah, OK' and not giving it a second thought. Constructive criticism? Hahahahaha. OK, if you think all that Ged has said about him in the press was constructive then I'm leaving it there, we're really just not ever going to agree.

Actually, I'd question his quality - we sometimes talk about him as if he's a player from the very top bracket, when actually he's had one good season - I think he's more Lee Hendrie than Joe Cole. I agree his mental state is an issue. But that's kind of my point really. From a football side, you want the best out of him, you don't slate him to the press. And from a purely human side as well. I think Joe Cole would kill to play as well as Lee Hendrie right now.

K-Mac and Houllier have both played him in the Petrov role. Whatever you think he might be, that's not a role I think he would be familiar with playing. Sorry C4rvillan, you're allowed to use Arshavin as a comparisson, but I'm not allowed to use Bergkamp? I don't think distance travelled is any more of a problem than being short of match practice myself though. And remember that a lot of the players you mention were going into successful teams, clearly different from the situation Ireland found himself in. Unless you're blaming our current position entirely on him? I agree his workrate hasn't been the best, and his performances in general. But I'll say for the hundredth time, they atill aren't as bad as some others, and I'm partly excusing him because of the awful way he's been handled by Ged. A decent manager would have put an arm around a player like Ireland, not kicked him in the teeth. Even if you don't have much time for players who need an arm around them, it was still a stupid thing to do as it will drive his price down when we do sell him.

The rest of the post made perfect sense, it was just wrong. :winkold:

Hahaha. Ireland isn't currently in the class of those players and I'd never claim he was. I'd also say that none of them spent the season prior to moving not playing very much, and none of them were brought in to play out of position and just expected to perform right away. (And even having said that there are plenty of examples of much better players than Ireland struggling to settle. Bergkamp at Arsenal for one. But I suppose his awful start there meant he wasn't worth persevering with...)

That makes no sense at all. Whatever deal he was part of, the club chose to buy him and the club chose to give him the wages he was on for the length of his contract.

Well that's just a joke. For how many matches exactly? For a player settling into a new club (and at times asked to play an unfamiliar role) after not having had much playing time recently at his previous club. Completely ridiculous to question his attitude at that stage of his Villa career and speaks volumes for how he is being viewed now.

If we can't afford that sort of luxury we shouldn't have bought him in the first place. It's not Ireland's fault that we still agreed a transfer for him with no manager in place and agreed a deal to give him that much money. I disagree that he's lazy, though he clearly hasn't fitted in all that well to our system yet. I still say he's playing no worse than a lot of other players who don't get nearly so much stick though. And in flashes he's shown the talent he has, some really clever passes (some too clever for teamates) and positions taken up.

If my manager at work treated me like that I'd want to leave too, don't blame him at all. But itit's not just that he wants to leave, it's that Ged wants him to leave at least as much if not more.

He wouldn't have been on the bench, he wasn't going to be in their final 25. Even more so then, yes. He could have picked up his dosh and just stayed home. If money was all he cared about.

I've read about the suing business. The £1.5m was the payment Manchester City paid to Ireland because he was taking a drop in salary to go to Villa. They agreed to pay this out only with a confidentiality clause. None of us know exactly what this clause stated or how legally watertight it is at all. Stephen Ireland thinks he is still due the money and Manchester City don't. This is in the hands of his lawyers, and I don't see how it detracts from his ability to play for Aston Villa. If you think he's playing badly for us, fair enough. I personally don't think he's playing any worse than a lot of other players who don't get nearly so much stick. Either way it has nothing to do with this money, and I reiterate that Ireland would have been at least as well off sitting on the bench at Manchester City and picking up his paycheck like SWP, and he wouldn't have had to commute to Brum every day either.

I'm not convinced your facts are right there at all to be honest. And talking to your agent is something that can quite easily be done while working your ass off for a new job. To think that one must distract him from the other is very odd. I'm able to handle loads of personal issues in the course of a day, and it doesn't stop me working hard at my job too. It's a complete red herring.