Big_John_10

For me, I just don't want it to be with billions and billions. I don't want to simply buy success - it doesn't prove anything other than money wins.

I take it you were furious when Lerner bought the club and started spending lots more than most teams? Were you wishing for the days of Doug when Lerner was spending cash fast trying to buy success?

In terms of careers football has a short one. If I was a footballer and my choice was key player at a prem club or usually sub's bench for villa then I'd choose playing. Add on more money and its an easy choice to make.

When a team stays up one season on 38 points but goes down the next season on 42 points they don't so "Oh well at least we gained more points"...

League position is what matters.

I think you need to take into account both. League place is obviously important but I think when comparing any seasons you think about league, points and performances. Again, the fact its even close to McLeish just shows how shit he's been.

Same points worse goal difference.

OK so we're ignoring league position?

Does that mean if we had a manager who finished 2nd on 89 points +30 & a manager who finished 1st on 89 +29 that the other would have had a better season?

Don't bother arguing with BJ10.

If I was constantly proved wrong I'd probably take this attitude as well.

But he's right!

Where you finish in the league defines how well you've done, goals scored/conceded and points gained are peripheral ultimately

Seriously, it's best to just leave him to it.

Well if you can't put across your point with evidence to support it you're probably right.

If I was constantly proved wrong I'd probably take this attitude as well.

For your own sake I hope you realize that a discussion/debate is about far more then proving someone wrong.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a part that's either right or wrong. It's a great opportunity to gain knowledge and to get an understanding of other peoples view.

Sadly people are far more concerned with winning their discussion then learning something from it.

Off topic, sorry!

As for Paul Lambert, he'll be around until a new owner comes in. After a very disappointing season I'd like to see him leave sooner rather then later.

Things just didn't work out, sadly.

I agree but then it wasn't me who told people not to bother debating with someone did I?

The current state of the club he'd come in and be an important player. Pretty depressing but that's Aston Villa under Lerner.

It looks like another season of praying for survival and this signing will help achieve that.

Same points worse goal difference.

OK so we're ignoring league position?

Does that mean if we had a manager who finished 2nd on 89 points +30 & a manager who finished 1st on 89 +29 that the other would have had a better season?

Don't bother arguing with BJ10.

If I was constantly proved wrong I'd probably take this attitude as well.

Form doesn't last forever. Not saying we'll be great this season but people seem to be assuming that the horrendous form of late March onwards is going to continue for the entirety of next season.

And during his first year you assumed we had as much chance of finishing top 6 as we did of being in a relegation battle and last year you assumed we wouldn't need to worry about relegation.

The fact is we've been shit for 3 years, so while form doesn't last forever its unlikely we're going to see a massive change when firstly we won't be investing much money and secondly our best player will not return at the start of the season.

Same points worse goal difference.

I didn't buy into the Lambert hype when he arrived but at the same time I haven't jumped in with the crowd asking him to leave.

My opinion is still the same, he is a decent young manager and is much of a muchness with any other manager we'd be looking at attracting. We are not going to sack him and find the next Simione so I'm in favour of keeping him on as he knows the squad and provides continuity.

....continuity of what exactly?

This is the crux of the argument for or against keeping him on now for me. People state given the predicament the club finds itself in in terms of being up for sale that it is now best to keep Lambert on for the sake of continuity - he knows the players etc, etc.

However when you look at what it is we would be continuing with it is frightening. We secured one win from our last 9 games, taking just 4 points from 27, go back a little further and look at the last 15 games we took just 11 points from 45 and go back even further and from our last 24 games we took just 19 points from a possible 72. I cannot think of one reason to give me hope Lambert can turn that around. We had a decent end to the 12/13 season, Lambert spend around 15-20 mill last summer signed half a dozen players and we went backwards and had our worst season since we were relegated in 1987.

I fear if we go with the policy of continuity it will result in a continuation of our dire from and ultimately lead to relegation. To at least give ourselves a chance we need a change of manager regardless of who the owner is.

Agree completly which is why starting with Lerner and lambert is a real worry. A different manager my get new ideas into the team and get the players organised better. I think we need to try a change and not just stick with Lambert just because he's here.

I think what TRO is trying to challenge is the ridiculous notion that different managers would achieve exactly the same results with the same resources as is implied by those who say things like "no other manager could have done any better than Lambert" etc.

Only nobody has implied this.

Over the last two years its been implied many times that no manager could have done better

But it hasn't, however it has been implied that it is unlikely that any manager Lerner/Faulkner would realistically hire instead of Lambert could do better.

Once again, I don't really understand what is trying to be achieved by constantly bringing up what has been said over the last two years by other posters. Why does it matter? Genuinely don't understand why the argument is still going now.

Because someone said its never been implied and it has.

I'm among those who believe we're about 2-3 quality players away from a comfortably mid-table/top ten finish.

Me too!

Messi, Ronaldo and Bale should get us mid table.

But doesn't that show the squad is currently quite bad if we need 2-3 quality players to just get mid table.

I'd be pretty gutted if we lost gabby. We know he's good enough to be part of a top 6/7 team. We don't have many of those players.

I can, if the rumours are true that Lambert leaves the coaches to do it all.

Lambert will still play the same way, make the same poor tactical decisions before and during games and still not get the best from the squad he built.

I've been thinking about our squad and the fact we've sacked two main coaches. Maybe, just maybe, Karsa and Culverhouse have done us a favour. Who knows, two new coaches coming in might just make a huge difference to the players and how we play. We MIGHT see a different team next season, with some luck.

If the managers the same I can't see the new coaches making much of a difference.

I'm not sure there's much to disagree with. I 100% think Lambert has his sole interests at heart, and that's not a criticism of him because I think the vast majority of people would do the same.

He's currently in a job being paid and will get a pay off when he's replaced. Why currently give that up? Some say to save his reputation but really at the moment I'd say that's not an issue, especially if the club fails to be sold. Any problems we have next season will be put onto the owner wanting to and failing to sell by the media.

I don't for one second think Lambert is here out the goodness of this heart. Its like with Lerner, for some reason people think we have people who really care for the club first running the place.

Thanks, I'm glad you've managed to acknowledge it.

I just think its strange that a few keep changing opinions just to defend a billionaire who doesn't want any part of the club anymore.

Well, that's it. You guys can't hide it from BJ10 any longer as he's on to you. You may as well start posting your own actual opinions now, as making up posts for the sole purpose of making Lerner look good is no longer going to be effective. Too bad, too. I was thinking you were within a whisker of bringing him around to your point of view

Well you had people annoyed at the idea the club was being run on the cheap so that lerner could cut his losses. They defended the way the club was run by assuming lerner was going to invest heavily again and improve us. Now that's been proven to be wrong the same people are still defending the way the club was run.

The way I see it, any ££s Lerner puts in over and above the money the club makes for itself means he is a positive owner (who has of course made mistakes during his time here). The last few seasons of 'harsh cutbacks' he's still been supporting us with £20m a season which is very generous of him no matter you think BJ10. When he starts taking money off the club like the Glazers do that's when I will turn on him but not before.

So if we're relegated this year you'll have no issue with him?

And what do you mean generous? Its his investment, he's put in the absolute minimum to keep his investment in the premier league. I can't believe after the last four years people still act like he does things because he loves us. He's looking after his business interests and while we struggle and our reputation as a club gets worse and worse there's still a few like yourself who defend him for it.

Thanks, I'm glad you've managed to acknowledge it.

I just think its strange that a few keep changing opinions just to defend a billionaire who doesn't want any part of the club anymore.

Well, that's it. You guys can't hide it from BJ10 any longer as he's on to you. You may as well start posting your own actual opinions now, as making up posts for the sole purpose of making Lerner look good is no longer going to be effective. Too bad, too. I was thinking you were within a whisker of bringing him around to your point of view

Well you had people annoyed at the idea the club was being run on the cheap so that lerner could cut his losses. They defended the way the club was run by assuming lerner was going to invest heavily again and improve us. Now that's been proven to be wrong the same people are still defending the way the club was run.

The way I see it, any ££s Lerner puts in over and above the money the club makes for itself means he is a positive owner (who has of course made mistakes during his time here). The last few seasons of 'harsh cutbacks' he's still been supporting us with £20m a season which is very generous of him no matter you think BJ10. When he starts taking money off the club like the Glazers do that's when I will turn on him but not before.

So if we're relegated this year you'll have no issue with him?

And what do you mean generous? Its his investment, he's put in the absolute minimum to keep his investment in the premier league. I can't believe after the last four years people still act like he does things because he loves us. He's looking after his business interests and while we struggle and our reputation as a club gets worse and worse there's still a few like yourself who defend him for it.

1... 2... Holtys coming for you

Really?

Thanks, I'm glad you've managed to acknowledge it.

I just think its strange that a few keep changing opinions just to defend a billionaire who doesn't want any part of the club anymore.

 

Well, that's it. You guys can't hide it from BJ10 any longer as he's on to you. You may as well start posting your own actual opinions now, as making up posts for the sole purpose of making Lerner look good is no longer going to be effective. Too bad, too. I was thinking you were within a whisker of bringing him around to your point of view

Well you had people annoyed at the idea the club was being run on the cheap so that lerner could cut his losses. They defended the way the club was run by assuming lerner was going to invest heavily again and improve us. Now that's been proven to be wrong the same people are still defending the way the club was run.

A very strange situation. There must have been issues but the end of season form once they left suggests it's not all down to these two.

Are we signing holt again?

Well BJ/Trent lets go macro economics...... yea lets not.

Fact of the matter is he is about 100m down, he hasn't taken money out of the club and he certainly wont make that money back in the next year therefore he hasn't made money out of the club/isn't trying to make money out of the club whichever way you want to spin it.

What I said before in the last post is correct and based off the accounts.

Simple, I don't go back on a word of it, even if Trent disagrees.

I'm surprised you still jump to his defence after he made you believe cut backs and the club you support being terrible was all part of a plan to build a new ambitious team and go again.

That is what is happening though, just it will be with new owners and not RL. Had to happen either way, maybe not so quickly and with such drastic cuts, but it had to happen.

Whether the new investment in order to take us forward after the underperforming overpaid squad has been dismantled and moved on comes from RL or a new owner takes nothing away from the fact that they needed dismantling and moving on.

So how come the view that he was surviving on the cheap until sold was shouted down so much for the past two years?

You know I'm constantly seeing you post things like "why did people say that" or "why did people say this" - I really don't know what you're expecting people to say to you.

You were right all along BJ10, everybody else was wrong.

Thanks, I'm glad you've managed to acknowledge it.

I just think its strange that a few keep changing opinions just to defend a billionaire who doesn't want any part of the club anymore.

Well BJ/Trent lets go macro economics...... yea lets not.

Fact of the matter is he is about 100m down, he hasn't taken money out of the club and he certainly wont make that money back in the next year therefore he hasn't made money out of the club/isn't trying to make money out of the club whichever way you want to spin it.

What I said before in the last post is correct and based off the accounts.

Simple, I don't go back on a word of it, even if Trent disagrees.

I'm surprised you still jump to his defence after he made you believe cut backs and the club you support being terrible was all part of a plan to build a new ambitious team and go again.

That is what is happening though, just it will be with new owners and not RL. Had to happen either way, maybe not so quickly and with such drastic cuts, but it had to happen.

Whether the new investment in order to take us forward after the underperforming overpaid squad has been dismantled and moved on comes from RL or a new owner takes nothing away from the fact that they needed dismantling and moving on.

So how come the view that he was surviving on the cheap until sold was shouted down so much for the past two years?

Well BJ/Trent lets go macro economics...... yea lets not.Fact of the matter is he is about 100m down, he hasn't taken money out of the club and he certainly wont make that money back in the next year therefore he hasn't made money out of the club/isn't trying to make money out of the club whichever way you want to spin it.What I said before in the last post is correct and based off the accounts.Simple, I don't go back on a word of it, even if Trent disagrees.

I'm surprised you still jump to his defence after he made you believe cut backs and the club you support being terrible was all part of a plan to build a new ambitious team and go again.

You don't seem understand the fundamental basics of advertisement

How's making the team terrible a fundamental basic of advertising.