Big_John_10

Boys, Jekyll & Hyde here!

When we lose it's because of bad tactics, stinker players, poor performance and everything else.

When we win, we win the wrong way.

IMO. Beat that!

Not what I am saying. Some of our wins stand out as great performances - Plop and Fulham, always in control and very comfortable wins and Blues was good tactics for that game. Citeh & Chelski I thought we dominated first half but let them get back in through their tactical changes/pressure and I would have liked MON to respond to this with changes to our set up. Wigan, Blackburn and Wolves I think he got it wrong but compounded this by not taking the opportunity to use his bench to shake it up a bit. Pompey was a dull game for me where we beat a poor side without ever looking good and, again, I would have liked to see a bit more imagination when we were 2-0 up.

I'm sure the big 4, man city, spurs and everton could all look at the games they've had and pick out some that went well, some that didn't work and changes could have been made and some that didn't go to plan at all.

For some reason though with us our manager must be replaced.

92% say otherwise. Relax.

I'm not worried, like i said the people who pay there money aren't going to turn on the manager.

I just don't see why some want him gone because so far this season every game hasn't gone perfect.

Boys, Jekyll & Hyde here!

When we lose it's because of bad tactics, stinker players, poor performance and everything else.

When we win, we win the wrong way.

IMO. Beat that!

Not what I am saying. Some of our wins stand out as great performances - Plop and Fulham, always in control and very comfortable wins and Blues was good tactics for that game. Citeh & Chelski I thought we dominated first half but let them get back in through their tactical changes/pressure and I would have liked MON to respond to this with changes to our set up. Wigan, Blackburn and Wolves I think he got it wrong but compounded this by not taking the opportunity to use his bench to shake it up a bit. Pompey was a dull game for me where we beat a poor side without ever looking good and, again, I would have liked to see a bit more imagination when we were 2-0 up.

I'm sure the big 4, man city, spurs and everton could all look at the games they've had and pick out some that went well, some that didn't work and changes could have been made and some that didn't go to plan at all.

For some reason though with us our manager must be replaced.

Which your quote backs up, so thanks.

You said you'd never claimed that people who criticise the manager must consider themselves to be superior football managers to O'Neill. Personally, I think that quote is something that suggests otherwise.

No i said not everyone, which is what risso was implying. So if you're going to get involved please read. More than happy to admit i think 2 or 3 on here truly do believe they know better.

You've got yourself confused again, i haven't claimed that at all,

TRO believe they have enough experience managing premiership football teams that they can clearly see what tactical changes need to be made at certain points in the game to ensure that we win every game and play attractive quality football. Seriously boys get your applications ready for when a job opens up

I know what i wrote so if you're going to cut my quote to make a point it might not work.

What i said was

i haven't claimed that at all, i've pointed our that IMO their are 2 or 3 posters who certainly post their opinion as if they think they know better.

Which your quote backs up, so thanks.

But do you think that MON is right to persist with the 4-4-2 with JC for Emile being pretty much his only change when things aren't working?

I'm not sure if you've seen many games this season but i don't think we've stuck with a rigid 4-4-2 formation like you keep going on about. In the last game there were periods of play when the formation was changed.

We changed to 4-4-2 which helped us beat blues, we then beat pompey and cardiff using the same formation. We lost to blackburn but then using 4-4-2 got a point against man city who many think will leave us behind and beat probably the favourites for the league. It wasn't a great performance saturday but the result wasn't too bad and i certainly don't think we are struggling so much that drastic changes to the formation have to be made every time we have a period of play where we aren't dominating.

I could understand the moaning more if we'd fallen massively behind the teams we were competing with but we haven't.

Also i'm pretty sure those that wanted him out made some very negative predictions about the transfers and how we would do back in july and august, surely after he proved you wrong he deserves the chance to continue to do that doesn't he?

I know Big John would like to restrict participation in this debate to the 20 or so premier league managers but I am guessing that would restrict many of us from expressing any views on our club on this site and leave it all to the posts saying "Isn't MON great" or "Should we sign XXXX in January" - not that stimulating for many of us??

Don't mind me, if you enjoy pretending to be a football manager on your computer keep going.

Big_John, your constant assertion that people who criticise the manager must consider themselves to be superior football managers to O'Neill, really is childish drivel of the highest order.

You've got yourself confused again, i haven't claimed that at all, i've pointed our that IMO their are 2 or 3 posters who certainly post their opinion as if they think they know better.

For example on this page already i've read

BUT I am still left massively frustrated by his inflexibility and lack of tactical awareness without which I believe we could be top of the table at present.

Its just a good job that we are all far superior managers. Wouldn't you just love a crack at it and I'd only need £10k a week to accept the job!

I agree with this post in it's entirety. If we can see it why can't MON?

It looks like that a small group of people want him out and barrysboot and TRO believe they have enough experience managing premiership football teams that they can clearly see what tactical changes need to be made at certain points in the game to ensure that we win every game and play attractive quality football. Seriously boys get your applications ready for when a job opens up.

Not what I'm saying. I'm giving my views on how I would like to see our team managed. Apologies, but i thought that was the purpose of a discussion forum?? If you think mine, or indeed TRO's, views are incorrect then feel free to explain why the constant strategy of 4-4-2 with a late subbing of JC for Emile is the holy footballing grail of tactical genius. Maybe then we can have a decent debate/discussion?

I don't think what we do is the holy footballing grail of tacical genius but at the same time i don't believe that i know more about management and think my opinions would work better than what MON does. I don't think the same can be said about you two.

Things aren't always perfect but when teams like chelsea, man u, barcelona and real madrid can't get it right week in week out then i don't see why i should expect aston villa to get it right all the time.

Until things are so bad that my expectation are then not met i really don't see the point in questioning everything the manager does and moaning about little things when we don't get the perfect result every game. You two always post as though there are no consequeces, as though if MON followed your ideas they'd never go wrong.

I want us to challenge for a top 4 place this season, at the moment that's exactly what we are doing, MON has done enough in his time at villa to be given the chance to fail and i can't see the point in getting on his back and complaining about every little detail everytime a result doesn't go exactly how we want it to.

Sometimes we won't play well and sometimes we will end up with a result that we didn't want but that's football and that happens to better teams than us who spend a shit load more money and have the ability to attract better players.

from one week to the next I could change my mind.

Would like him to stay with a more honest and open approach to what he is doing and what his thoughts are.

at present i feel a lack of cohesion exists in his team selection and subsequent team changes.

The accusation that MON is dishonest is quite strong and not a little extraordinary.

Care to back it up with some examples of what you count as his dishonesty?

You have chosen to focus on one word and, as such, taken this out of context I think. I feel the same about MON - that he says a lot without really saying anything and never really gives us an insight into what he is looking to do with the Villa team, hence a lot of posters on here quoting brief snippets of MON and debating what he means e.g. recent posts on Downing, whether Milner will play centrally, no real comments on NRC - a particular frustration of mine - etc..

Who cares? Does wenger and fergie tell their fans everything they are thinking of?

I real earlier that results like yesterday mean we won't finish in the top 4. Using that logic does that mean that chelsea, man u, arsenal and liverpool won't win the league and spurs, man city and everton won't be in the top 4 either?

It's ridiculous TBH that the few who don't rate MON that much demand so much when even the big clubs and the ones competing with us aren't consistent.

Genuine question for you guys who think we are a one-dimensional unattractive and whatever else side.

Did you watch Man U v Liverpool today ?

Could you detail the big differences between our recent performances, (even a poorer one against Wolves), and the performance of either of these teams today ? Coz I must be stupid but I've watched that game twice now with many slow-mo's and watched ours and was there, and -apart from Rooney and Torres and the ability they bring - I can see nothing particularly different in how either of them play than us other than a few shots on target.

The same people moaned during the summer about transfers, then when we lose they moan about results and if we don't lose they moan about the performance. Unless we are top of the league playing like brazil and arsenal the same people will say the same things because they don't rate the manager.

What, like last season and the one before?

Yeah but anyone can do that with the backing MON has had, i mean it's not like spurs or man city have spent any money over the last few years.

I bet man city and spurs haven't spent the same amount as MON though so we should clearly expect more.

Come back when we're ahead of them both in the table.

Yes we're so far behind, many on here were predicting we wouldn't compete and we find ourselves 2 points behind the mighty spurs with a game in hand and 1 point off man city who have spent ridiculous money on world class players.

If we go ahead of them one week will you be on telling everyone how well MON has done then?

've spent many thousands of pounds over the years supporting Villa home and away, Mr Better-Fan-Than-You.

Did i hit a nerve? I never claimed to be a better fan than anyone. The fact is that the club will not listen to around 10 people moaning on the internet when thousands of paying customers chant the managers name week in week out. Something i'm very pleased about.

So spurs lose at home to stoke

Man city throw away a 2 goal lead to draw at home to fulham

Everton lose away to bolton.

All results that were worse than ours. Maybe this premier league is quite difficult after all.

I bet man city and spurs haven't spent the same amount as MON though so we should clearly expect more.

The football we play is truly dire. Play for free kicks and corners and create 2 chances a game from open play, boring! While we're scraping results and scoring from set pieces the masses will be happy, but when our little bit of luck runs out and we stop scoring from the set pieces thats when the trouble starts. However theres noone else out there that we could realistically get so stay for now, a bit of passing wouldn't go amiss though.

I thought the goal we scored yesterday was superb.

So did i.

People moan if the results are bad but then if they're good people moan about the way we play.

We aren't good enough to play brilliant football and win all the time.

Football is all about results and until they are truly bad i can't see how anyone wants the manager out. Thankfully it's a small group on the internet and not the people who spend their money to go and support the team.

You neglect to mention Everton, who have been a regular top 6 side, despite not spending as much as we have.

Which further proves the point that it doesn't just take spending loads of money.

Surely the main reason that 6th should be a given, is that O'Neill is a brilliant manager (according to you). if he's that good, why should we accept anything left. Newcastle haven't achieved anything because they're owned by an idiot, who has appointed a succession of divs to manage the team.

We should expect good things because he is a good manager but i don't get this attitude of it's the least we should expect because of the money he has had. There are other good teams who have spent money and as a club we have no right to demand that we should be there over them.

This thread is pretty pointless because until the fans that matter change their opinion of the manager he won't be going anywhere.

You neglect to mention Everton, who have been a regular top 6 side, despite not spending as much as we have.

Which further proves the point that it doesn't just take spending loads of money.

Why? What other teams outside the top 4 have shown that all it takes to be a consistent top 6 side is spend money? Spurs? Newcastle? Man city?

Spurs have got closer a couple of times in the last 5 years than we have. I fully expect Man City to achieve it this year. If they don't, they'll be closer than us.

Spurs and Man City will be up there this year but are they consistent top 6 sides? Spurs have spent loads over the years and have only finished in the top 6 twice and man city have spent ridiculous amounts over the last 2 seasons and haven't managed it.

I don't understand the idea that all it takes is to spend money and therefore being a consistent top 6 side is the least we should expect. Other teams haven't managed it when spending loads of cash so i'm not sure why it's deemed the minimum requirement for MON.

And then we debate why we aren't beating teams like Wolves. After over 100 million NET spend, we shouldn't be still asking these questions

How long has fergie been at Man U and how much has he spent? Yet they still lost to burnley and only got a point at home to sunderland thanks to a last minute OG.

I STILL cannot fathom why we didn't go for Bent

Probably because you can't allow thoughts into your head that don't lay all the blame on MON.

he has established us in the top 6 - but for that money, that is the least I'd expect.

Why? What other teams outside the top 4 have shown that all it takes to be a consistent top 6 side is spend money? Spurs? Newcastle? Man city?

I don't think it's a 'suddenly' thing to be honest sled. We've seen this kind of performance a few times this season - Wigan, Blackburn - and we weren't exactly great to watch against Portsmouth.

What teams play brilliant every single game?

If we were more consistent we'd be a top 4 side but we aren't and we need to try and add that consistency. Spurs, chelsea, man u and liverpool have had worse results than this one this so far so i'm not going to get too worked up about it.

Our defence was pretty solid and gabby caused problems but the rest of the team were poor today.

I don't think it's as easy to say bring on NRC for a striker we we won't concede.

I think playing that formation would make us sit deeper and invite pressure on us, it would also restrict us going forward. Dropping a striker back into midfield puts another body in there when the opposition has the ball but also allows us to still have a forward when we attack and that's important if we don't just want a team continually attacking us.

'Big John' value your opinion like i do everyone else's on here. Firstly if you think Cuellar is a RB then i don't wish to debate further on that point.

Secondly, i'm certainly not trying to be arrogant about Petrov, just observant and it is what i have seen.

Thirdly, purchasing a striker who doesn't score no matter what his presence is, is a bloody joke. Strikers must be able to score, Heskey can't on a regular basis!

8.5m on a midfielder who O'Neill won't play in my book is a total waste of anyone's money!

Finally, at least we agree on Europe.

I don't think cuellar is a RB but he has played there and we have the best defensive record in the prem so it can't always be a disaster when players play out of position. Other big teams with better squads than us still have to do it at times.

I just think it's a little arrogant to claim that you can clearly see from your seat in the stand or from the tv that petrov is knackered and needs to be replaced but the manager can't. I have to say i don't agree with this view that petrov is done by the last 20 minutes and i don't think it's a fact that can be used to slate the manager with.

If a better striker than heskey was available and interested i'm sure we would have made a move. We needed a striker, heskey was playing well for wigan at the time and got back into the england side. It hasn't worked but even the best managers make mistakes when signing players.

NRC has played before and has helped us achieve two top 6 finishes. He isn't playing at the moment because he isn't needed. I'd say having an £8.5 million pound player on the bench shows our squad has improved. I'm sure some will tell me he should be coming on but at the moment results are going well and NRC isn't in the team.

Against Man United last year away, he brought on NRC which many people seem to forget and we still lost.

That is utter shit, i know for a fact that whenever NRC just looks at the pitch every other player turns into ronaldo and we never give the ball away.

Continually playing players out of position

Even the best managers do this at times. Cuellar at RB has contributed to us having the best defensive record in the league at the moment.

not knowing when his centre midfield is knackered and refusing to substitute them!

What an arrogant response, you spoke to petrov then? It's your opinion he was knackered nothing else.

Purchasing a striker who is habitually scoreless when Gabby was knackered, Carew was injured when we needed the exact oposite!

We needed a physical prescence upfront, players aren't always available or interested. It hasn't worked out but he isn't the first manager to sign someone that didn't work.

Paid 8.5m for a midfielder and generally refuses to play him, even when we have injuries, or our other central midfielders are playing shite!

No matter what we paid NRC is not a player who commands a first team place all the time. We haven't done too badly without him have we?

Then there's Europe, or should i say, was Europe Now thats what i call a manager full of knowledge and wisdom!

Can't argue with that one. Losing to vienna was poor and i wish we were still in europe. Still it could be a blessing come the end of the season.

If a manager in any other walk of life had taken four years to get the correct staff for one part of his department and spent millions on doing it he would have been given the sack long ago!!

This is just rubbish really, MON has had 3 summer transfer windows at aston villa and after finishing 11th i'm pretty sure players weren't falling over themselves to join aston villa. The players he has signed however ended up helping us finish 6th place, how do you explain that if our defence was as poor as you claim it was? Is the premier league that weak that any team even with a shit defence can finish in the top 6 and push for a top 4 place most of the season?

So Warnock wouldn't have signed for us, but was happy to join Blackburn. Erm, OK then.

When Warnock signed for blackburn he had left liverpool with not much of a reputation, i doubt most managers were looking at warnock being a quality left back. Regular first team football has given warnock the chance to show what he can do.

Would ronaldo not have joined madrid instead of man u all those years ago and for a lot less money? Could Man U not have signed Valencia before he went to wigan? Why didn't barcelona sign ronaldinho before he went to PSV?

It does amaze me, that even now, after undoubted quality additions and great results, people still want him out.

Look at the people who want him out, it's the same people who have done nothing but moan about him for years regardless of results or league position.

We played 4-4-2

Petrov played

Heskey was on the pitch

And we still beat the team that will probably win the league, how did that happen?

General i would like to say that i couldn't care less what numbers our players wear. If osbourne wants number 10 and the players and manager don't care then so be it, if Friedel wants to wear 99 and the manager and players don't care then so be it, it's a number on a shirt and makes no difference to results or anything of any importance.

General i'd also like to say that most villa fans aren't arrogant enough to post that they'd question were the club was heading if things were done that they didn't think were right.

You may not have been at villa park much but i can tell you that the MON chants are still loud and clear from the holte.

I was wrong, i thought 4-4-2 would be the right formation for todays game.