chrissmith921

Wales work well as a unit but IMO there are no stand out 'stars' in their team - the coach has done a tremendous job with average players but they've been nothing special during this tournament (pretty much like every other team, including Ireland)

As for England, we've gelled two games too late for this tournament, that and a severe bout of indiscipline (matched with poor officiating) in the previous matches has cost us the tournament.

England could still end up as runners-up in this tournament, on the back of indifferent performances - what does that say about the rest of the 'competition'???

No stand out stars? Shane Williams?? Best player in the world.

No doubt? England played the way they did to stop Wales from playing - if you'd not tried killing the ball all the time you'd have been ripped open.

Ireland - you should have won that game anyway, that was stupid indiscipline (eg the 9 shoving the Irish boy)

But you wouldnt have won in Cardiff - you werent good enough with the side you put out there - it would never have beaten what we had. Weak up front and no creativity behind. If you'd named the side you did against France, and played to that level, then yes, it would have been a better game. But we had gears we could have gone up in as well - so 'no doubt' is way off the mark.

Well saying how 6 of the best 10 nations in the world are nothing special, leaves NZ, SA, Australia and Argentina as potentially 'special' sides.

Argentina had a good world cup but really aren't overly special. A bit like England, their set piece based game will see them fall a bit over the coming years until they change the whole ethos of their game from the bottom up.

That leaves the 3 'big' nations. Australia were pissed on in Cardiff, provided nothing more than anything seen in the 6 nations this year and have absolutely nothing up front to worry any major international side. To suggest they're special, is odd imo.

That leaves SA (world champions) and NZ (world #1?)

Out of those 2 - SA are definately beatable, should have been beaten by both Wales and Scotland during the recent Autumn internationals imo - NZ are virtually untouchable. So is there only one really 'special' side in the world at the moment? Is the standard that bad? I disagree to be honest.

And Australia are?

villamark has it spot on there - England are getting the yellows because they are trying to kill the ball, illegally.

They werent the better side against Wales at all - Wales were never under any threat of losing that game.

<<<< has tickets

but I just believe losing Yakubu is a bigger blow

the same Yak that you were propsoing Everton get rid of ..think it was to Spurs when you suggested it on another topic not so long ago :-)

I'm not sure that The Yak was / is pivotal to Everton and how they play .. i would argue that Carew , is pivotal to Villa and the way we play

I never said I wanted rid.. :?

That was what was being rumoured at the time, and supposedly, he was going to Spurs in January, until he got injured.

Yak was very pivotal last year for sure, his link up play with Cahill and Pienaar is what got us 5th place. Huge miss.

I'm using Gabby in the "excuse" in terms of you still having recognised strikers, us having a grand total of ZERO.

I'm sorry but what did you expect when you signed Louis Saha, knowing Vaughans injury record? As far as I can see, you've only got 2 regularly fit strikers on your books anyway?

I think it gets done at every level mate - the pressure our local Village side put on a referee before a make-or-break game a couple of years ago was clear to see

England told to shut up and stop complaining, the ref didn't rob ya.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/english/7912721.stm

England backs coach Brian Smith has been reprimanded for his criticism of Jonathan Kaplan's refereeing in the Six Nations match against Wales.

Smith accused him of not being even-handed with England, claiming he had been swayed by the Wales management.

"Comments that appear to question the performance of Kaplan were unwarranted," said the International Rugby Board in a statement.

"The official review of the match ranks Kaplan's performance as high."

The statement added: "The IRB is satisfied that Kaplan followed the correct protocol for addressing both teams on and off the field and dealt with England and Wales in a fair and professional manner and refereed what was in front of him.

"An official process exists for unions to give feedback to the IRB on refereeing performances.

"IRB referee manager Paddy O'Brien and the Rugby Football Union elite rugby director Rob Andrew shared a very positive meeting on Monday, which makes the timing of the comments regrettable and unfortunate."

Smith had not held back in his criticism of Kaplan, who he believed had come under pressure from Wales to find fault in England's play at the breakdown.

"His whole demeanour through that match, the way he addressed our team in the changing room beforehand - he had clearly had heaps of pressure put on by Wales," said Smith, following the 23-15 defeat on 14 February.

"The way our team was addressed prior to the Wales game took me a little bit by surprise. It was clear to me that Wales had done their job in terms of getting stuck into the referee.

"Fair play to them for doing it. Teams are looking at every advantage they can get.

"What we are really trying to say to the refs is: 'Please judge us the same way you judge other teams and do not come into the game with a preconceived idea'."

England face Ireland at Croke Park on Saturday.

Hmmm, perhaps the view on here that the ref robbed you was a bit, umm, incorrect?

sex.

football is good but it aint that good!

The next round is upon us - some huge games that will see how the rest of the Championship goes...

A full strength Wales visit France on Friday night - a win there would almost certainly mean they will be competing for the Grand Slam when Ireland come to Cardiff at the end of the tournament, England face the Irish which will be a test for Ireland - England gave Wales some headaches with an excellent defensive performance, Ireland are yet to face a solid defence in this tournament and it could prove to be their undoing - while the Scots should get their first win of this years event over Italy.

Whats your predictions for this weekend then? I'm going for Wales by 9 in Paris, England to beat the Irish by 4 and the Scots to win by 8.

tell her to cook it herself

deny ever saying you would, or if she insists you did say it, make sure she puts out good and proper in exchange for your slavery

If you put Wilkinson in the England side under the new ELV's you'll see that he's a very, very good kicker (out of hand and place), but an average fly half in terms of dictating the game.

With the ELV's a lot more has gone onto the fly-half's responsibility to boss a game, and Wilkinson simply is behind others at it. In terms of kicking, first class - but controlling his backline?? Nah... no thanks. If you could take the American football route of bringing on a kicker solely for that duty, Wilkinson would be in, but he will struggle to get his place back soon espeically behind a pack that goes backwards.

Shane however is a class above - he's easily the best winger on earth at the moment. Its good that he'll be back for France and to have Henson available will just mean we've got better options to bring off our bench.

Keep on believing that the ref cost you that game - because he didn't. You were beaten by a better side and that side were lacking 3 huge players in Henson, Hook and Williams. Just imagine what would have happened if Williams had passed his fitness test...

Personally, I think we would have rested him anyway for the French game

Santa_Rosa - To your question a few pages back (sorry!) I'd pick Phillips to start, keep their back row from moving out by offering the powerful threat down the sides of the rucks. This is part of the reason I think Wales find so much space out wide - they know they cant keep a lightweight tackler in tight because Phillips will bust that and if he doesnt, Andy Powell is on hand.

When sides start chasing the game against us, the ball is a lot cleaner, quicker. Peel then can come in and get that backline cranking the scoreboard up.

Plus I find it amusing you say Ireland have the better forwards - their scrum is weak and around the park their tight 5 offer very little in comparison to Wales. Admittedly, they've got themselves a dynamic, powerful 8 who will cause problems in open play for anyone but as Wales move the ball side to side very quickly, it brings the athleticism of the packs into play - covering that sort of yardage is pretty difficult... - Wales have the edge here. No doubt in my mind on that.

The Irish tight 5 have 2 heinken cup medals so they are no mugs, the srum is not weak at all and they are a hard working pack. I am saying there is not much in it but Ireland edge it.

Who's the other Irish second row?

O callahan good player but I rate gough ahead of him.

The thing is Chris, are wales the best team in the six nations yes but are they the best by miles no. If Ireland would have got rid of Eddie O' Sullivan years ago the irish team would have had a grand slam, if they would not have kep Gatland then I think they may have had a couple. You should know about poor coachs after gareth jenkins.

Goode was on his feet when he went for the ball, he did get knocked off his feet and should have let go, but halfpenny did hold on, so penalty England

Yes they have those medals but thats because they've been allowed to play their game - traditionally facing powerful English sides or Perpignan - sides who rely on a solid forward base rather than looking to move the ball at every opportunity.

Munster have been shown up when they face sides who manage to move their front 5 around the park and Ireland will be the same. Yes they would have won slams had they kept Gatland, I agree there - but they didnt and their best side was the 2004-2007 side rather than the aging one they have now. I'd like to see what happens when O'Driscoll faces a defence that is semi organised - lets see how easily he cuts through that, because the Italians were the better side in that first half on Sunday against them and that was down to a solid defence while rushing 10/12 to make sure BOD didnt get any clean ball. The Irish only pulled clear once the Italians heads went down and that final score flattered them. Irelands tight 5 did nothing that made them look like they could handle Wales if Wales start to move the ball side to side.

from a Brian Moore, who is more one-eyed than a cock.

but not more one eyed than you chris.

Wales were the better side just, for the Goode sin binning he was the first player at the break down tried to take the ball, welsh player held on for dear life Goode got knocked of his feet it should have been a English penalty for Wales holding on.

Gatland got it right told the ref England will slow the ball down and he fell for it hook line and sinker. The best team in the world slow the ball down and cheat every game and that is NZ.

I really don't think there is much in the differnce between Wales and Ireland, Ireland find the forwards battle just, but Wales overall have a better backline.

Goode shouldnt have been binned? He went to ground with the player and tried wrestling it off him on the ground - I was up in U14 and could see it was Goode at fault - the next 3 players in were Welsh and couldnt lift the ball out - jesus....

Just because NZ do it doesnt mean its right - plus theres a difference between slowing the ball up and killing it, you should know that with a Glam Wanderers background...

Plus I find it amusing you say Ireland have the better forwards - their scrum is weak and around the park their tight 5 offer very little in comparison to Wales. Admittedly, they've got themselves a dynamic, powerful 8 who will cause problems in open play for anyone but as Wales move the ball side to side very quickly, it brings the athleticism of the packs into play - covering that sort of yardage is pretty difficult... - Wales have the edge here. No doubt in my mind on that.

Anyway, you win some, you lose some. Unless you're England. Then you win some, or the ref robs you, eh?

Still fancy the jocks and the English to do something to Ireland before the game in Cardiff - and you know Wales are doing something right if even Jeremy Guscott comes out and says Wales will slam it...

Its the Englishmans attitude - blame the referee.

KAZZAM you obviously have no idea about the laws of the game - if you did you would have seen England illegally killing the ball from the first minute. If you'd seen that, you'd realise why you had the yellows. Also, what is it now, 9 yellows in the last 3 tests for England? Theres a reason - you're cheating f**kers, but no good at it.

Lets be honest here, if the referee has pinged your team 4 times already for falling on the ball, do you think Tindall was wise to do it? If the referee is penalising the illegal binding by Vickery, do you think he's wise to carry on doing it?

snowy - unfortunately thats how it is - he didnt wrap the man up in the air, so it was not tackling a man off the ground - so a penalty was the right decision.

You lot are so bitter, you used to be the best in the world, now you're 3rd tier with the likes of Ireland...

Also KAZZAM, Shane Williams is a far more influential player than Johnny Wilkinson, who now Rugby has forced England to drop their 10 man rugby bollocks will hardly feature for England again.

Argue the point as much as you like, you were beaten by the better side and we didnt even play that well... We're better than you all over the park, we beat you up front, we battered you in the lineout (calling Kennedy the best lineout man in the world is like Newcastle fans calling themselves the best fans in the world...) and we battered you in the backs. You lot turned up with one thing on your mind and that was to defend with your arses to the wall and spoil the game. The referee saw it clearly and pinged you (rightfully) off the park for it. I really suggest you learn the rules KAZZAM because its clear you're generating your opinions from a Brian Moore, who is more one-eyed than a cock.

wales didn't offer much and they were at home vs apparently a shit england team,who were still a lot better than wales

what was the score fella

we beat you, we could have stepped it up even further. you lot killed the ball at every break down then complain about yellows? give me a break!!!

pipe dreams,england crushed you just when you thought wales had finally overtaken the english as the greatest northern hemisphere side england start to bring it back and its apparent wales arnt that great.

england were better and that shocked a lot of people and if the ref hadn't had a disaster game england woulda won,wales discipline was just as bad as englands and yet the ref never gave no yellows to the wales and never gave us barely any penaltys,ryan jones should be binned he did exactly the same as goode and whoever took out armitage in mid air shoulda been binned to

you got lucky thats all no room to gloat but when your english people seem to find this magic luck against us.

Yeah, magic luck, nothing to do with being poor outwide?

England werent better - re-watch the game before you make yourself even more of a tool than you are already - England got into Wales' half with the ball TWICE in the first 40 minutes. Yes they scored on both occasions but how well a side performs in rugby is directly visible by how much territory they have - bugger all by England - did exactly what Johnno sent them out there to do - damage limitation from the word go (as shown by Worsley in the backline for set pieces) and deliberate, consistent killing of the ball.

Thats why Ryan Jones didnt go by the way - the big word is CONSISTENT killing of the ball. England killed it, killed it, killed it. Tindall was the 5th man to do it when he had his yellow and that was after 16 minutes. If you are killing the ball that many times in the first quarter of a game you are doing it because you are being over-run.

You clearly do not have an understanding of the game if you think for a second that Wales a) didnt deserve to win and werent the better side.

You got a beating, but not by the margin that the first hour deserved. You had 10 minutes (60-70) where you threatened yet you neglect the other 70 where you were backs and arses to the wall because you were so heavy under it its untrue.

Typical English fan (regardless of sport) though - you lost, so blame the ref and call it bad luck.

Let me just remind you, Wales were without the World player of the year on Saturday, our record try scorer... And we still stuffed you boys. Good luck for the rest of it, you'll probably get something off the Irish now but that just leaves us going into the final Saturday on a slam unless France pull their fingers out of the arses.

referee cost you

Why didn't your man go to the bin for doing exactly what Geraghty did last week and what the Scotsman did, too (i.e. the 'tackle' on the player in the air)?

Cos Lee Byrne didnt wrap his arms around the man - he went in looking for the high ball.

Theres the difference - penalty for the offence, no card because there was no intent

wales didnt offer much and they were at home vs apperently a shit england team,who were still alot better than wales

what was the score fella

we beat you, we could have stepped it up even further. you lot killed the ball at every break down then complain about yellows? give me a break!!!

tbh Nick I only saw the first half as I had to go to work, So commenting on the match as a whole would seem unfair but I can certainly remember scoring more tries than England and having players sent off at Twickenham and being on the losing side.

Kaplan in the first half seemed to get it right but from what understand in the second half he made a few mistakes. Also from what I did see of the match England were clearly the second best side

1str half they got into wales' half twice.

fair play they scored on both occaisons but how they got into half time not being 25 points down is anyones guess.

how any england fan could even doubt that wales were the better side there is odd.

england played much better than they did against italy but were still second best to wales. blame the referee or whatever - it isnt wales' fault england tried desperately to kill the ball at every opportunity is it?

ps - good shout by england to call wales' lineout the achillies heel - it was **** fantastic.

yeah, it was all the refs fault you lost

fair play - england gave a better account of themselves than the form book suggested, but lets be fair here, i watched it at the ground and replay today on the tv (sky+) - when the scrums were going down, the ref was telling vickery time and time again that he wasnt binding correctly and he carried on with it.

goode's yellow - had to go - he stopped a certain try. if it was in the southern hemisphere, it would have been a penalty try as well so dont complain (espeically seeing as martyn williams had a perfectly good try disallowed in the opening 10 minutes).

finally - worsley was immense for you lot - tackled everything and stopped our power house threat - espeically when goode went into the scrums for him to line up out wide - johnson showing some brains!

you can blame the ref as much as you like but england killed the ball time and time again and were lucky not to have a third yellow (was it the replacement hooker??) later on in the game because he decided to lay on the ball...

i may have to rethink my prediction though because that english side is better than the micks and the frogs so good luck to you during this tournament.

Hell yes. Might have been a big sparrow?

Anyhoo - the 15 who are in line for the raping of the ass on Saturday are:

15 D Armitage

14 Sackey

13 Tindall

12 Flutey

11 Cueto

10 Goode

9 Ellis

1 Sheridan

2 Mears

3 Vickery

4 Borthwick ©

5 Kennedy

6 Haskell

7 Worsley

8 Easter

That side will not stop Wales - key players in key positions and all that...

7 M Williams (probably...) vs Worsley - who normally plays 6 - there is no contest. Nugget is one of the best in the world and certainly the best in NH.

Wings: Halfpenny and Willams vs Cueto and Sackey... again only one winner - Williams alone is better than the English pairing but Halfpenny is a talent - lightening quick and a natural finisher.

8 - Andy Powell will carry the ball all day, Easter is a defensive option. Powell will dominate this.

12/13 - Roberts and Shanklin vs Flutey and Tindall - Tindall isnt quick enough for 13 and although Flutey is a decent player, he will know hes been in a game after facing the 6'5 machine that is Jamie Roberts. Shanklin is a free scoring centre who will cause endless problems. If he doesn't, Wales have Henson and/or James Hook to step in to the centres which will add even more creativity to the backline.

Up front - I'd say on paper England shade this, but Sheridan's scrummaging technique has been exposed and cannot handle facing props who are short and he fronts up against Adam Jones who has turned him over countless times in the past. Vickery vs Jenkins will be very interesting and how much change England get out of the incredibly powerful Welsh scrum will depend on the former England captain keeping the Cardiff prop from lifting him up.

We always hammered them anyway - was our warm up before the Clifton/Marlbrough College/Millfield games.

QEH Bristol were usually pretty decent too.

Anyway, U14 is my home on Saturday. Up in the corner now then.... If I had the wings of a sparrow...................

I miss it a bit - I liked in a sporting sense being the big fish - which without blowing my own trumpet too much, I was. I enjoyed playing 4-5 times a week and I enjoyed using it as a reason why I didnt do my Art/History/Geography or whatever and usually it was accepted.

Theres a lot I dont miss - individual people mainly - but it tainted the whole thing. I dont miss having to do certain subjects I felt irrelevant to where my life was always heading (humanites subjects when I'd never have gone anywhere but the scientific route) and I dont miss the weeks spent away from home sharing a room with a smelly Chinese person and an Iranian.

We used to play them on the basis that they were pushing rugby in that school - I believe theyve provided a few top level players now.

Millfield always was the big one anyway.