Gramme

Not a case of leading the charge on lumping on OGS at big odds certain that Lerner's plane was going to Kristiansund? Not quite the same thing.

Well, on the basis that RL and/or PF have actually met and held discussions with OGS (rather than just watching a YouTube video and whipping themselves up into a frenzy), one has to assume that they know more about him than you and have valid reasons for not pushing more aggressively for a deal.

No, all day long. Horrific anti-football, largely terrible results and now flirting with relegation. Could things really be any worse?

We didn't keep the score to 2-0; Spurs did, either through poor finishing or not bothering to get out of second gear. I was at the game; an absolute waste of time and money. I took two non-Villa mates along for a taste of Premiership action (at least 150 empty seats in the upper tier, by the way) and I was embarrassed by our showing. The manager is an idiot, picking that team and instructing them to sit so deep when we lost the ball (which was over 70% of the game, stats fans). Even when Spurs had the ball halfway inside our half, they had time to look up and pick their passes. I mean, we're not talking Karl Henry here - it's Modric, Van der Vaart, Bale - players who can use the ball and have a bit of guile about them. They will hurt you if you let them, and we did, and they did. It was an absolute stroll. But as much as McLeish is a disgrace, the players need to shape up too. Defensively we were a complete shambles. Somebody up-thread praised Heskey for his workrate; that's the biggest joke of the night. He didn't track a single off-the-ball runner all night - not one. Warnock was left hopelessly exposed time after time, two-on-one or worse. Every time Spurs came down a wing, we gave them an easy 5-yard ball inside - no pressing, no tracking, reaction rather than proaction. Corners and throw-ins were a joke, whether attacking or defending them. No movement, no awareness of movement. The good bits? We were fairly vocal in dire circumstances. But best of all, a Villa fan in a wheelchair made what seemed to be a decent attempt to get at McLeish. He just casually rolled out of the lower tier by the corner flag and got halfway to the dugout before the stewards realised what was going on and trundled him back. That was pretty much the most passionate act by anyone in claret and blue all night. Also, can anyone guess which player made the biggest effort to come over to the away support at the end to thank us for our commitment? On-loan flying fullback, Kyle Walker. Wait, but... Oh. Sums up the night for me.

He played the type of football that had Rangers fans protesting against him before he was relieved of his duties. They finished third that season. Also, let's explode the myth AGAIN of McLeish 'sorting out the defence'. Blues conceded ONE less goal than us last season, and we were **** dreadful at the back.

CSI Aston Villa.

EDIT: link broken

His time at Rangers ended with fans protesting against him because he'd been in charge for the longest winless run in the club's history. His spell as Scotland boss was mixed too; when the chips were down, they failed against Georgia and Italy, the same as Blues failed at the end of last season when trying to keep it tight. And as for his first season at Blues, you don't need to turn anything around when you're 16th and trying to avoid relegation - more of the same and you're safe. Finishing 19th from that position isn't inevitable - it's poor. Lipstick on a pig, I'm telling you.

Pretty sure Blues will make it very hard for us to buy any of their players after this shambles. And yes, it'll be really interesting to see how Carlos gets on in a flat back 8.

Actually, had they appointed Flores and he had failed people would be ripping Flores and the board apart and I think you know that as well. It doesn't take much for fans to turn on a manager, a few poor results or a streak of boring football and the hunt is on. Football fans are very, very sensitive when it comes to managers and their performances. Yes, the board would have been ripped apart... but how many people would have been saying 'we should have gone for McLeish'?

You're just being silly now. People might be accepting McLeish now because they have no choice and wish to remain loyal to the club, but don't confuse that with wanting him. Can't you see that this is a massively divisive and dangerous appointment? I've seen Villa fans fighting amongst themselves on the terraces at Selhurst Park over the merits (or otherwise) of Brian Little - a bona fide Villa hero. What sort of reaction do you think McLeish will inspire if we lose a few games?

It'll be the equivalent of putting lipstick and saucy underwear on a pig.

No, the difference is that you've been throwing shit around on VT for barely a month and clearly haven't done your homework on MM's long posting history.

I just read some of that. It's absolutely pathetic; those dishing out the abuse should be ashamed of themselves. Neanderthals.

Yes and no. Absolutely nailed Houllier last summer, long before the press got hold of it. Got the signing of Charlie Adam wrong back in January however, back when we all thought Blackpool might sell for £3.5m. That was very messy though, so I can understand confusion on that one.