TRO

8 hours ago, The_Steve said:

He’s too lightweight for me at times. I do like his passing though. 

I do like Centre backs passing out from the back......but when an Hairy arsed no 9 is pounding the turf, hell bent on bursting the net......A little thought comes over me, like...."I wish you had that little bit more"

For me defender first, ball player, second.

When I look at the top 3 and their defenders, can do both, is where I am.....We are not there yet, but that's the aim.

8 hours ago, The_Steve said:

Clement did nothing wrong in the build up for the disallowed goal. It was a 50/50 shirt and the defender threw himself to the ground. It was a crap call by the ref. 

That's a risk, you always run.

A shirt pull is not ambiguous, like some illegals. and who is to say how hard or soft it is?....it's so easy to spot.

He was an idiot.

It's like driving in a bus lane......its an innocuous, misdemeanor, but.............................Gotcha.

9 hours ago, Leeroy said:

He's nice on the ball but it's another defender we have who can't really defend. I don't want us to sign him permanently.

 

Other than Mings, who has just had what could be a career threatening injury and we've no idea how he will be next season, our central defenders are more good ball players than being any good at the basics of defending. Of course this is vital for our build up play and we need these types of players, but we also need someone back there who is skilled in the art of defending.

 

We need to address this in summer by signing at least one defender who can defend. Once again I wouldn't sign Lenglet because if we do we will continue to ship silly goals next season when we're forced to play him. 

A ground breaking move....Imagine that, a defender, who can defend.

1 hour ago, Philosopher said:

He been generally poor for the last couples months. The last couple of games he's been getting very frustrating, and seeming to blame other things happening around him. 

The penalty miss could well be good for him. Make him get back to focusing on what he's doing. 

It doesn't matter who you are or what you do, one can only have control about yourself and actions, so that's where one has to focus one's energy and attention.

I still think he is a fantastic player, and want him to be at Villa for the foreseeable future. We believe in you Douglas!

I agree.

but he is not a no 6, he is a no 8......and his deployment in the 6 role, is testament to his loyalty.

We need to Address it, in the closed season.

On 28/04/2024 at 13:31, DJBOB said:

 
Going to be a race. Hopefully a precaution to make sure he’s available for the 2nd leg. 

We'll get him ready...............

The problem we have is, Emi is more than a goalkeeper, he's the 12th Man.

We are relying on him, too much and he is central to everything we do.

He wallows in the involvement and the action, but when he is out, we look vulnerable.

I think Emi has saved us, when he shouldn't have had too, and we have come to expect it. We would have conceded far more without him, but it has masked over our defensive flaws.

I am not sure, how much of a climb down Olsen is.....or is he is just not protected enough?

Many times I have watched games and thought, without Emi, we would have lost, and we have actually won......I am not sure, how much that registers with some or is it just taken for granted?

4 minutes ago, delboy54 said:

Emery I am sure knows by now exactly what our problems are and what type of players we need, as well as those we don't need.

He will have learnt alot about how and why we lose games or the lead (the Villa panic mentality). The issue is we either don't have the players as they are injured or we haven't yet got those players, but we will...

Exactly, how I see it.

The Summer, will be interesting.....I think we will be busy, but I don't see the signings being huge fee's.

2 hours ago, El Segundo said:

I don't think our overall performance was terrible. We lost because of a series of individual errors including the Ref/VAR:

Goal 1: Cash failed to hold the line (not for the first time) which allowed them a free run on goal.  He frequently takes that extra step back as if he either doesn't quite trust the process or his own ability to get back and cover.  There are a few  examples of this tendency.

Goal 2: Digne started to go with the runner then changed his mind too late and made a hopelessly doomed attempt to play offside.  Again a free run on goal.  Lenglet has been criticised for going into the challenge but I dare say he was relying on his team mates to maintain the offside line if he didn't win it.  Olsen could perhaps have done better with it but he was dropped right in it.

Goal 3: Utterly, pointless, brainless stupidity from Luiz, again not for the first time.  Killed our momentum just when we were going for the kill.

Goal 4:  Lucky deflection, but McGinn should have closed down quicker, Konsa should not have turned his back and Olsen should have done better with it having got a strong hand on it.

Missed Pen:  McGinn and Diaby getting involved in scuffles added to the delay and pressure on Doug.  Doug's performances recently and especially on the night were screaming "don't let him near the pen".  

Ref/VAR:  Failed to give us or even review a clear pen, disallowed a goal for the softest of shirt pulls, and generally made some bizarre calls on fouls. 

Aside from those albeit critical errors, I thought the overall play was decent and their defence didn't look great.  Eradicate the individual brain farts in the second leg and we have a fighting chance.

We usually do.

Some of those points, are simply not good enough, and are repetitive. ( from the players, I mean)

The goal 4 was a poor defensive action.....just like the one with Zaniolo, recently, where the shot breached the wall and they both shied away......its puny work.

Shirt pulls for me always run the risk of punishment.....I don't understand any mitigation applied to the action...it either is or it isn't......refs will always apply their own discretion, sadly......I say, just don't do it, in the penalty area, especially.

I thought there was elements of the overall play, that was poor.....some bits were ok. I thought without the ball, we looked passive.

2 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

I thought Lenglet could have done more when he conceded the corner which led to the penalty. If he had reacted quicker, he could have cleared his lines or, even put it out for a throw - in. You have to sense danger sometimes, and then, snuff it out before it becomes a bigger problem than if should have. 

he's not one for me, Sheepy.

2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I agree with your underlying point on us conceding too many goals - I think to a large extent recently that's been about us having lost a big chunk of our central midfield - we're pretty much a 4-2-4 now by necessity. We started the season one light in that second line of midfielders with just Kamara, Luiz and McGinn and having lost Kamara we're susceptible to teams getting at us - we've got lots of attacking midfield players (Rogers, Ramsey, Zaniolo, Bailey, Tielemans, Diaby) but we're definitely short in the middle which has lead to us having less control of games and less protection for the back line at times.

For last night though, Olympiacos had five shots on target and scored four goals. One of those was a penalty that isn't always given, one took a huge deflection and one might well have been offside - I think in terms of the way in which we have been conceding goals, last night was pretty unique, an outlier in terms of our recent play - the one 'normal' goal they scored was exactly the type we've conceded more of - but the others were to some extent the result of a lot of luck - the result was something of a freak one.

With Kamara likely to miss the start of next season and Iroegbunam not considered ready for starts, I think we'll need to look at midfield for strengthening - for the moment, I don't think we have any alternative but to limp on and try to outscore teams - I don't think it's plan A, and for someone who likes to control games with possession and positioning like Unai Emery does, it must be incredibly frustrating, but it's all we've got with the bodies we have left.

Just a quick response to some of your points.

• Unai firmly dismissed the notion of us being unlucky
• The deflection, was the result of the defender turning away from the shot and the players back was a perfect runway, for the shot.
• The point about the imbalance between attacking and defensive midfielders, is a significant one, and has been, even before Unai's tenure. I agree with your synopsis.
• I think the penalty against Dougie, was Legit.
• I think it is bordering on imperative to secure another CDM with the necessary skill set....as a matter of urgency.
• I totally agree with your sentiment, that we are playing in a way, to get results, with the personnel we have.....I don't think long term, Unai will ignore the security of conceding goals.....Like you, I think its all he can do, is try to outscore teams.

just to add one point......I think Emi M has placed us in a false sense of security, with his world class goal keeping.....He eventually needs protecting better.

2 minutes ago, delboy54 said:

Yeah our defence seem tired, more and more teams are playing the ball over the top of the defence and running through to try a beat the offside trap - and a lot of teams are trying that now.

 

so we need midfield runners, and CB's who can kill aerial balls and play headers in to the midfield.

I still think we have too many players, with similar attributes....good players, but too samey.....We need some weapons i.e players with diverse skill sets.

1 minute ago, tinker said:

But that tracking,  or lack of it, maybe down to fatigue. We have a top 4 squad that cost pennies in real terms. To be honest there was plenty of instances where we never tracked , the first goal had Dignes running back while Lenglet just stood there flat footed after failing to pick up on a lose ball, undee pressure, from Rogers.

I agree, it's not just him.

then maybe our expectations, should mirror that.

We have already superseded my predicted finish of 6th.....and secured European football, which is magnifique.

11 hours ago, Keyblade said:

Honestly, this was one of the best attacking performances I can remember in a while. Shame it had to come alongside one of the worst defensive ones. If we have top 4 wrapped up this weekend, I hope we rest players then go all out next Thursday. Leave it all out there.

Attacking, simply isn't an issue.....we should all be aware of that, by now.

1 hour ago, useless said:

John McGinn made a great point, we can come back from two goals down against them, as we showed in last night's game, we did in the space of around twenty minutes, in the second-leg we will have a whole ninety minutes to do it, we just havet to avoid giving away silly goals, with Martinez in goal maybe we will have a chance

That is the Elephant in the room.....I hope he treads on someone's foot, when the window opens.

4 minutes ago, tinker said:

It's been evident in the last few games that we are low on energy,  I think this is a major factor tbh with the closing down of players and competing.

We need another Kamara, a player who is good out of possession and can put his foot in. Tim's development isn't going to match ours. The players we are up against in Europe are well rested and have time to looks at how to play us and drill this into the players.

The problem with having loads of games isn't just physical fatigue it's mental, players having to adapt to different teams in such a short space of time, Emery will have a studied them but he won't have the time to install what he has learned into the players so that it became habitual and in the heat of game its that instinctive reaction that's needed,  follow that runner , fill that space, turn him to the left.

What I will say is Olympiacos keeper didn't seem that confident and we should have shot more and followed those shots in. They also looked nervous on corners,  we have a chance.

 

There was an incident last night....just picking out one, as an example, where Lucas Digne, having been alongside an attacking player, just allowed him to run towards our goal, without tracking him....Alan Hutton picked up on it too.....Its passive and puny.

This is not digging out, Lucas Digne, who I happen to like......its just not good enough.

To only have Kamara, in a squad of 25....is just not good enough. I hope we address it.

13 hours ago, ozvilla28 said:

Putting it on Olsen is an excuse for me offcourse his no Martinez. We still concede with Emi every match, hardly ever a clean sheet, so that tells you the defence and midfield is an issue. School boy mistakes and errors since the turn of the year has cost us goals and never has been rectified. Emery was asked yesterday if your worried about conceding so much and his response was aslong as we score more don't agree with that response. McGinn and Luiz go missing too much in midfield, and without Youri stands out more. Lack of leadership out there tonight to someone to take the grasp of that game.

I don't agree with it either, but I think it was a diplomatic response.....He is not going to throw players under the bus....or moan about, what he can't affect.

My view is this.......Sure injuries have hit us hard, in the defensive area's......but we haven't got enough quantity or quality of players to begin with, with defensive nous. I think that is a WIP issue.

They are a rare species at Villa, these days.....Quality defenders.

I do not believe Unai, is happy with our goals against column......but I do believe, he hasn't got enough players available with the necessary skill set, to do much about it.

Unai, will never moan, for moans sake.....If he can't fix it, right now....He won't talk about it. It's a kind of, I will only talk about what I can fix.

7 minutes ago, tinker said:

Just hope he has the finance to do it with FFP limits, I'm sure he has a list of players though, especially if we're in the CL.

I think its more to do with the right kind/type of players, not just the transfer fee's.

Some very effective players can be sought, for modest fee's.

We see some of these european teams, players, giving us a hard time, who have not cost huge fee's.....Monchi is also prudent at that, as we have seen with Morgan Rogers.

It's about getting the balance right, and not playing attack minded players in defensive roles, and vice versa.....horses for courses.

It's more about getting the balance of the team right, than just filling it with expensive stars.

4 minutes ago, tinker said:

Good post,  maybe  the amount of games in such a short timescale

To be fair, I think there are many things to examine, in the fullness of time.

My saving grace, is, We have a manager who can see it.....He knows. That does not mean, he can fix it, in the here and now.

as an example.....You may be able to visualize, how a garden should look, but if you haven't got the tools to do it......you can't.

I think some of these games, where we have fell short of our usual standards, It will help Unai formulate a plan for the summer.

2 hours ago, useless said:

If we could have just got one more goal to make it 4-3 rather than 4-2 then I would have thought we would have a good chance, as we showed last night that we're more than capable of causing them problems, us scoring three or four past them in the second-leg really isn't beyond the realms of possibility, the part that's more difficult to conceive of as a possibility is us stopping them from scoring, we're not withoug hope but it's going to be difficult, going to have to have a perfect game, defence and keeper not allowing anything past them, midfield controlling the game better to relieve pressure on defence, and the attack to take their chances

What has kept our season buoyant, is having the ability to score goals, (but how much man power do we deploy to that?)......you simply cannot operate at a walking pass without the ball, and expect to cause teams problems....Unai has a lot of work to do on that.

Your analytics is right, its ok looking at our ability to score over there, be how can we be sure, we won't ship more.......I guess the odds are not with us.

We rely so heavily on Emi saving, would be goals, that the defensive capability, has been somewhat overlooked in some quarters......We have also, been able to score freely in games, which has also got us over the line, and masked over other issues, like defending( as a team)

Control, which is Unai's baby.....and mine fwiw......has been missing lately. I am not going in to why, because there are so many plausible reasons, not just one.

The depleted squad, due to injuries, is undoubtedly the major factor, and it is pushing us over the edge. It's not excuses, there comes a time, when it's simply too much to bear.

Some of the players, are having to carry the rest, too much.

2 hours ago, osmark86 said:

yeah we did a lot of bad things as well, this is absolutely true. 

I was looking at the things, we wasn't doing right, that had a major bearing on the result.....I am referring to our general play.

There were other things like: 

• Dougies unnecessary penalty gift
• Bailey's penalty refusal
• Dougies Penalty miss
• Lenglets stupid and unnecessary shirt pull( as innocuous as it was)

all those were goal scoring opportunities, missed.

but our general play, was well below par.....off the ball, we was walking, they in contrast was running........much like the Chelsea collapse.....That alone, give them a huge confidence boost.

I don't know, the true circumstances of our drop off, of form, only suspicions....goal scoring excused, because ironically, we are still, scoring goals......it's the control of the game,  that's gone.

If we want to search for perspective, we need to examine all aspects of the game, not just the juicy bits.....otherwise, we are just fooling ourselves.

1 hour ago, ben1505 said:

Anyone on here have any confidence that we can turn this tie around?

It's not impossible.....and we have the capability of scoring away from home. Scoring is not a problem for us.

but that's not the issue for me......We have an equal reputation for shipping them, With a disappointing regularity.

Olympiacos at home backed by a partisan crowd, will be buzzing at how easy it was, to breach us.....and they too have been free scoring at home.

Its anyone's guess and I suspect hope will be a huge feature of anyone predictions.

52 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Having slept on it my overwhelming feeling is that we simply need to put the result/performance in perspective of the whole season which has been a remarkable one.

I also think that we need to factor in the fact that we may just be running out of steam both physically and mentally. If you think that we were missing 7 players that would have either started the game last night or would have been able to make a positive contribution, and that four of those players have missed between half and the whole season, then it should be no surprise that we are now starting to look jaded. 

Olympiakos made 7 changes from the side they put out over the weekend. They now don't play again until they next play us and that has to be a factor and mitigate the fact that on paper we have more quality. It doesn't completely excuse the performance but when you are as poor all over the pitch as we were then you have to look at over riding reasons as to why that may be the case.

All is not lost though and we score the first goal next week, even if that is after 80 minutes, then it is game on. You know what though if we do go out, or even if we lose every game we have remaining this season, it will still have been an unbelievable one and I will have so much pride in all these players and our exceptional manager. 

 

It's been an undoubtedly brilliant season and the manager and the players have been outstanding.....but that is over 10 months and there has been some differences in form,during that time,  for a variety of reasons. Folk will have their own opinions why the goals against seem to have increased.

The future is extremely bright......but this thread is about the game.

I would suspect the rate we ship goals and the manner of them , will feature heavily in the managers thinking during the recruitment period.

I have to say, sadly....it was no surprise to me, because I have seen these traits, that led to their goals in previous games, lately. I have my opinions on it, which are observations, not criticisms, and I suspect other fans will have theirs.

We will all have our theories, why the sudden, shipping of goals.....The manager looked apoplectic, at times, with some of the players, so he was clearly not happy with things.....it's been a tough old season, and some look battle weary, having to carry the fight.

I say, finish 4th and have a good summer window, and look forward to next season.

ps some of our returnees will be like new signings.

10 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Oh, almost forgot, that's now 32 goals in cup competitions for us this season, the most we've scored in a season for 63 years.

 

Yeah! and that's great.

The only problem is, it's only half the story.......The ones we let in, have a story of their own.

3 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

What really annoyed me was our players getting involved in silly nonsense while Dougie was waiting to take the penalty.. 

What annoyed me the most was, they confirmed my suspicions of how much of the game played out..............when I really wanted them to prove me wrong.

12 hours ago, PieFacE said:

Tie isn't over yet. If we can get Pau and Emi back for the next leg then we can still get to the final.

Not sure why Pau wasn't playing but if he's not injured it was an odd choice to disrupt the back 5 even more so than just Emi being out. 

I actually thought they were a pretty decent team, especially tactically. Didn't let us play out from the back and crowded out the midfield on the few chances we did. We got done tonight. It happens. 

...............a lot lately.

The tie isn't over, there is still a lot of money to be made out of it.

3 hours ago, picicata said:

As a wise man once said..

It ain't over, 'til it's over

and a wise Woman said...."You want to wake up and smell the coffee"