TRO

2 hours ago, useless said:

If we could have just got one more goal to make it 4-3 rather than 4-2 then I would have thought we would have a good chance, as we showed last night that we're more than capable of causing them problems, us scoring three or four past them in the second-leg really isn't beyond the realms of possibility, the part that's more difficult to conceive of as a possibility is us stopping them from scoring, we're not withoug hope but it's going to be difficult, going to have to have a perfect game, defence and keeper not allowing anything past them, midfield controlling the game better to relieve pressure on defence, and the attack to take their chances

What has kept our season buoyant, is having the ability to score goals, (but how much man power do we deploy to that?)......you simply cannot operate at a walking pass without the ball, and expect to cause teams problems....Unai has a lot of work to do on that.

Your analytics is right, its ok looking at our ability to score over there, be how can we be sure, we won't ship more.......I guess the odds are not with us.

We rely so heavily on Emi saving, would be goals, that the defensive capability, has been somewhat overlooked in some quarters......We have also, been able to score freely in games, which has also got us over the line, and masked over other issues, like defending( as a team)

Control, which is Unai's baby.....and mine fwiw......has been missing lately. I am not going in to why, because there are so many plausible reasons, not just one.

The depleted squad, due to injuries, is undoubtedly the major factor, and it is pushing us over the edge. It's not excuses, there comes a time, when it's simply too much to bear.

Some of the players, are having to carry the rest, too much.

2 hours ago, osmark86 said:

yeah we did a lot of bad things as well, this is absolutely true. 

I was looking at the things, we wasn't doing right, that had a major bearing on the result.....I am referring to our general play.

There were other things like: 

• Dougies unnecessary penalty gift
• Bailey's penalty refusal
• Dougies Penalty miss
• Lenglets stupid and unnecessary shirt pull( as innocuous as it was)

all those were goal scoring opportunities, missed.

but our general play, was well below par.....off the ball, we was walking, they in contrast was running........much like the Chelsea collapse.....That alone, give them a huge confidence boost.

I don't know, the true circumstances of our drop off, of form, only suspicions....goal scoring excused, because ironically, we are still, scoring goals......it's the control of the game,  that's gone.

If we want to search for perspective, we need to examine all aspects of the game, not just the juicy bits.....otherwise, we are just fooling ourselves.

1 hour ago, ben1505 said:

Anyone on here have any confidence that we can turn this tie around?

It's not impossible.....and we have the capability of scoring away from home. Scoring is not a problem for us.

but that's not the issue for me......We have an equal reputation for shipping them, With a disappointing regularity.

Olympiacos at home backed by a partisan crowd, will be buzzing at how easy it was, to breach us.....and they too have been free scoring at home.

Its anyone's guess and I suspect hope will be a huge feature of anyone predictions.

52 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Having slept on it my overwhelming feeling is that we simply need to put the result/performance in perspective of the whole season which has been a remarkable one.

I also think that we need to factor in the fact that we may just be running out of steam both physically and mentally. If you think that we were missing 7 players that would have either started the game last night or would have been able to make a positive contribution, and that four of those players have missed between half and the whole season, then it should be no surprise that we are now starting to look jaded. 

Olympiakos made 7 changes from the side they put out over the weekend. They now don't play again until they next play us and that has to be a factor and mitigate the fact that on paper we have more quality. It doesn't completely excuse the performance but when you are as poor all over the pitch as we were then you have to look at over riding reasons as to why that may be the case.

All is not lost though and we score the first goal next week, even if that is after 80 minutes, then it is game on. You know what though if we do go out, or even if we lose every game we have remaining this season, it will still have been an unbelievable one and I will have so much pride in all these players and our exceptional manager. 

 

It's been an undoubtedly brilliant season and the manager and the players have been outstanding.....but that is over 10 months and there has been some differences in form,during that time,  for a variety of reasons. Folk will have their own opinions why the goals against seem to have increased.

The future is extremely bright......but this thread is about the game.

I would suspect the rate we ship goals and the manner of them , will feature heavily in the managers thinking during the recruitment period.

I have to say, sadly....it was no surprise to me, because I have seen these traits, that led to their goals in previous games, lately. I have my opinions on it, which are observations, not criticisms, and I suspect other fans will have theirs.

We will all have our theories, why the sudden, shipping of goals.....The manager looked apoplectic, at times, with some of the players, so he was clearly not happy with things.....it's been a tough old season, and some look battle weary, having to carry the fight.

I say, finish 4th and have a good summer window, and look forward to next season.

ps some of our returnees will be like new signings.

10 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Oh, almost forgot, that's now 32 goals in cup competitions for us this season, the most we've scored in a season for 63 years.

 

Yeah! and that's great.

The only problem is, it's only half the story.......The ones we let in, have a story of their own.

3 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

What really annoyed me was our players getting involved in silly nonsense while Dougie was waiting to take the penalty.. 

What annoyed me the most was, they confirmed my suspicions of how much of the game played out..............when I really wanted them to prove me wrong.

12 hours ago, PieFacE said:

Tie isn't over yet. If we can get Pau and Emi back for the next leg then we can still get to the final.

Not sure why Pau wasn't playing but if he's not injured it was an odd choice to disrupt the back 5 even more so than just Emi being out. 

I actually thought they were a pretty decent team, especially tactically. Didn't let us play out from the back and crowded out the midfield on the few chances we did. We got done tonight. It happens. 

...............a lot lately.

The tie isn't over, there is still a lot of money to be made out of it.

3 hours ago, picicata said:

As a wise man once said..

It ain't over, 'til it's over

and a wise Woman said...."You want to wake up and smell the coffee"

3 hours ago, switters said:

Not our worst performance of season  - we were worse against Chelsea at the weekend for one - but a v frustrating one, couldn't sustain momentum at got some real bad luck like the deflected 4th. Clearly missed Tielemans, Martinez, Pau, much lesss able to get control of games without them three. 

Ref got so many things wrong, little & large, just added to the frustration of it all.

Still wouldn't say no chance in the 2nd leg. We got chances there, and if we go in with positive mindset and get a lead, it's game on. Genuine chance to seal Champions League qualification at weekend now.

was it bad luck? or poor defending?, by turning your back,sideways, you are aiding the trajectory of the shot.

Unai was asked, by a reporter, did you have bad luck on the night and he replied.........No, it was down to us.

3 hours ago, osmark86 said:

It was one of those games were you feel you're doing things right, but the results are all wrong anyways. That gets so deflating, but it happens.

but there was many things, in our play, that wasn't right....in those circumstances, the results are usually reflective of that, and they was.

3 hours ago, DaoDeMings said:

One of those games. Nothing went our way. Still in the tie though.

Win on the weekend vital

seen a few lately..at home.

2 hours ago, Jareth said:

Made up 2 goals tonight, can do it again. 

sure we can go there and score 2......we can always score goals.

but, Have you considered they might do the same....and that's not such a long shot, is it?

2 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Also think it's really showing and is key to us right now and in recent games - we're desperately missing Kamara

we have no midfield 

All this about why has Luiz dropped off, why is he playing so poor... Kamara not being there is why 

Sure.

He had games like this, before Kamara arrived....Dougie is not a No 6.

It is not his fault, he is being deployed in a position that doesn't entirely suit him....its a result of having only one recognised CDM in the squad.....and it took us long enough to get him....it's a priority.

2 hours ago, KevinRichardsonsMoustache said:

They were v canny. They took their chances and played dirty at times. Their fans were excellent, too.

 

Having said all of that, we lost that game ourselves 

Of course we did.....overtones of that game, have been in previous games lately, too.

2 hours ago, andym said:

Learnt nothing from the Lille tie

Yet again in Europe we start the game passive and sloppy - the save Olsen had to make in the first few minutes (which was wrongly flagged offside) should have been the warning, but we carried on as we were and got deservedly punished.

The ref was shit, but at the end of the day 4 goals conceded at home in a semi-final is an absolute disgrace. The back 4 were a shambles, not helped by Luiz and McGinn being awful.

If Pau was on the bench purely for rest and he's not managing a knock, then Emery deserves criticism as well.

 

Is a concern, in fact the nature of our breaches are a concern, not just the quantity.

We can't defend as a team.....endorsed by Alan Hutton.

If we have any serious ambition, and I have no reason to question that, we need to address that as a matter of priority, in the summer.

17 minutes ago, leighavfc said:

Terrible performance by most our players tonight.

Lenglet and Olsen in the same team is criminal imo! The dynamic changes massively with just one of them in the team, never mind both of them. Both so nervy on the ball. Do we know why Pau didnt play? Carlos would have gone in for me over Lenglet. Hes been ok at times but we dont look anywhere near as good with him in the team, thats how good Pau is i guess!

Dougie and Mcginn non existent

Cash probably only player who comes out with any xredit for me.

Olympiacos did a job on us and took their chances. They prressed us very high up the pitch, causing us too make mistakes constantly in defence and midfield. I didnt think they were as bad as people are making out, we of course caused ourselves a lot of problems on top!

Havent seen penalty back but seemed harsh at the time, the 4th was because nobody pressed and a unfortunate deflection to take past Olsen. 

Dougies penalty just summed the night up although a bit of pressure on it so wont be too harsh.

Still got a chance but its going to be tough and we are going too have to put one of the performances of the season to get to the final imo. Missed Tielemans and Emi massively tonight!

 

Many teams are doing a job on us lately....and it's not hard to do.

We can go back a while to know, Dougie and McGinn have had some howlers together in the middle....but, we still seem to find a way to rely on them, after all that time....we know, we are down to the bare bones, but it's funny, how we still seem to be destined to revert back to them, for those roles.

I had an inkling Dougie was going to miss that, his expression, leading up to it was not good and looked anxious, his performance overall, was probably weighing on his mind.

Sadly, Nothing surprised me.

So many elements of the game reminiscent of the Chelsea game.

3 minutes ago, villan-scott said:

I haven’t been this excited about a Euro Semi since watching Eurotrash in my earlier years! 

Fearing we’re running on fumes but hoping we have enough to get the job done!

The no excuse mantra will see us through....Unai is right, its an opportunity for the peripherals, to show their worth and state their case.

Like " you've knocked my door, now show me"

They don't lose many games.....It will be tough.

However, It was a really tough journey in 1982....but the resilience, saw us through.

This Semi final, will be all about, a will to win, and a mental approach to seeing it through.

I am on the same page as Xristos Farrow.....if we play passively, like we did against Chelsea, we could struggle.

I don't see us, tying the game up at Villa Park....I think the big performance is needed in Greece.

I don't see a scenario, where we score enough goals, to make it comfortable.....Game management will be key IMO.

20 hours ago, RicRic said:

Its more the fact we could be in the biggest competition in football next season so upgrades are needed for sure.. Bailey is the only winger who looks capable of starting against lets say a barcelona, diaby,rogers and JJ are certainly not ( possibly a fit JJ *undecided*).

We are not starting with another player similar to Kamara because we only need him and Luiz who drives further forward, then we have Tielemans and Mcginn who can play multiple roles in the central midfield area, but we do need a backup to Kamara as Tim isn’t ready yet. If Duran leaves we then need to look at signing a forward again… 

So B**locks to FFP we will need to spend at least £100M on 3/4 positions its not fair we cannot.

*RB*
*LW*
*CDM/CM*
*ST*

In a game, where there is a need to win the ball back, often........It can be too much work, for one, and to go after opponents, 2 is better than 1.

In most games, where we are in control, I agree 1 CDM is fine......but I am thinking squad as opposed to team. An additional quality CDM gives Unai options, and some opponents is hard to get the ball off them.

Anyway, in the cold light of day, I trust Unai to get it right.

On 01/05/2024 at 09:44, duke313 said:

A quality DM and RB for me, if we only signed those and nothing more i'd be happy enough.

Me Too.

Dougie will be fine, played in his right position No 8.....I thought the idea was for Tielemans to compete with him for that shirt.

Having one dedicated CDM leaves us vulnerable.....we need an additional quality one who can pass the ball, and stay on it, to help us control games.....to play alongside, Kamara

Wingers.....we currently have Bailey and Diaby, and possibly Philogene coming back, not to mention Kaden Young in the academy, looking for his chance.

I don't really understand the need, here.....unless we are actually saying, they are not good enough.

i think there are positions in the squad that clearly need strengthening.....other area's are just cosmetic choices.

14 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

The fact that Chelsea looked a lot more dangerous in the 2nd half than they did in the first, I think, adds weight to my opinion. 

You're right, they are just opinions. 

I can't deny that.

14 hours ago, lexicon said:

You just asked and answered your own question there 

No I didn't.

I have my opinion, but respect yours.