VILLAFC2000

In Sweeden and a few other Countries they do not have OFSTED - Sweeden is regarded highly by a lot of folk who know Education.

One of the main reasons for this is because Teachers have to have incredibly high qualifications to do the Job, often Masters level.

This produces high Teaching levels.

So getting in ex pat no nonsense bully boy soldiers may work in the sense of they may phyiscally bully students in to good grades....!

The root causes of social injustices need to be tackles, this will not work using bully boy discipline strategies. Thats what the armys for....!

Another good thread ruined.

LOL - Of course....!

Just too many posts from one poster. Give people chance to reply and maybe you'll spark debate. There's no need for the desperation, you actually made a couple of pertinent points.

I'm saying this as a tip, not to have a pop. Honest. Although my first post I'm sure came across that way. My apologies, bad month, bad year etc etc.

On the flip side I went off and researched Trident as a result and spent the next 6 hours reading about the history of nuclear weaponry. So cheers! :winkold:

Cheers, I do tend to go on sometime - Inexperience...!

Apologies,

Up the Villa.

lol...!

Do you think our growth will lower even more, putting us back into an official recession...?

I suggest reading the previous 136 pages of this thread and you'll then have a very good idea of what happened, how we got here and where we are going. If you can't be arsed then the summary is still that we are all f**ked.

I think I can guess.

Labour reckless with spending, no one elses fault blah blah blah...!

Will out growth be lower than it is atm...?

Hi Folks,

With a lot of articles being written in the papers, about the recession.

Do you think we are facing a double dip recession...?

Yes, we're all f**ked.

How bad do you think things will get.

I have heard academic studies that suggest the Economy might not be better for another decade...!

Apologies -Forgot to post the link...!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011 ... double-dip

Hi Folks,

With a lot of articles being written in the papers, about the recession.

Do you think we are facing a double dip recession...?

Any one got any links of highlights...?

Another good thread ruined.

LOL - Of course....!

I don't know but I don't reckon. I think that, for example, accountants, or tax accountants, work within the law set out by Gov't on taxes. I think that they don't conceal the boss's wealth but they do help the boss legally do with his or her wealth things which allow tax to be paid at legal levels, but most effectively for the person whose money it actually is.

Personally, I don't think looking badly at the likes of accountants and similar on VT is really going to solve much at all. They're (the ones I know) ordinary folks doing their jobs, legally, and I imagine effectively.

Looking at who gets taxed and how much, is another matter. Looking at what the country spends and on what, too.

Your description covers the remit, or part of it, of accountants. Normal, everyday, ordinary accountants.

Great points...!

This is what I don't understand - How can people defend a system that does not bennifit them.

Absolutely unbelievable.

Lets concentrate the single mum that collect £100 per week in interest...!

It doesn't address, in any respect, the remit of the accountants involved in tax-dodging, which is very much about concealing wealth and who it belongs to, bending rules, setting up sham transactions and internal transfers of money to shift it from where it should be taxed to where it will escape tax, and all the other many, many ways they cheat us all.

Without their activities, tax-dodging would be harder, and less profitable. As it would without the Swiss banks, the tax havens, the corrupt links between legislators and tax thieves.

It's a cancer. And the rest of us are paying the price for it. You too.

Is it because their activities are so invisible that they escape censure, while daft kids nicking trainers get shat on?

Obviously the true amount is hard to find, as so many people spend such a lot of their time trying to lie about and conceal it, including contributors to this site.

Lots of VTers with millions squirrelled away in Zurich bank accounts you reckon?! :shock:

Doubt it.

But a couple engaged in helping to cover the tracks, the loyal footman responding to his master's voice, helping to conceal the boss's wealth from the taxman and help them find those little ways round paying their share so that everyone else has to pick up their tab instead, yes, more likely.

What do you reckon?

I don't know but I don't reckon. I think that, for example, accountants, or tax accountants, work within the law set out by Gov't on taxes. I think that they don't conceal the boss's wealth but they do help the boss legally do with his or her wealth things which allow tax to be paid at legal levels, but most effectively for the person whose money it actually is.

Personally, I don't think looking badly at the likes of accountants and similar on VT is really going to solve much at all. They're (the ones I know) ordinary folks doing their jobs, legally, and I imagine effectively.

Looking at who gets taxed and how much, is another matter. Looking at what the country spends and on what, too.

but I don't reckon. I think that, for example, accountants, or tax accountants, work within the law set out by Gov't on taxes. I think that they don't conceal the boss's wealth but they do help the boss legally do with his or her wealth things which allow tax to be paid at legal levels, but most effectively for the person whose money it actually is.

When I mentioned Tax avoidance - The figures of 25 billion have actually been set up by the government. Are you trying to say that little money is avoided and evaded every year....! If you think about it when ever you go to the car garage, local trader, electrician, carpenter, builder ect a lot of them ask for cash - I wander why.

The billions of pounds missing was estimated forecast by the government the Tories of all people and that's BEFORE you get in to the Mercy shores of the accountants to hide it...! You can probably treble it if you want to debate Accounts Tax evasion.

Like I have already said if your willing to believe that then fine.

" Some of the best works of fiction being written in this country are from that of inland tax revenue forms....................................!"

You’re from Sweeden.....! Sweeden is a fantastic country now and from all the research I have done on it, it is a far better country that the UK in lots of different way it’s ranked as one of the highest standards of living in the world. There is a heck of a lot that the UK could learn from Sweeden .

I perfectly understood your posts. I am not sure you should take everything say so seriously, I would take it with a pinch of salt. In regards to the following posts.

"MODs you may as well close this one"...!

"Hmmm -very interesting it’s all gone quiet"...!

"And you will all say the UK is the best country in the world etc etc".

You quiet clearly stated that we ALL think that - Fact....!

On the subject of taxes

- Do you understand how the UK taxation system works in the UK, Sunbeam...?

"what do you think would have happened if there was talks about increasing the VAT to 25%, say, add on a tax around 50% on monthly earnings above say 3000 pounds, its all verry easy saying that the people in need has to recieve more aid, but when someone has to pay for it its a different story"

The Irony in this is unbelievable but even better laughable.

Before you play the whole “why should the rich pay more card" ( And I must say not a good time to play it when there has been a recession IMO)

Think about this. I am not sure how much you know about the Global recession which has hit the world markets pretty bad recently. This was caused by the reckless irresponsibly of the bankers from Wall Street to London. These Bankers earnt an absolute fortune in comparison to the average working man on the streets, One boss got a payoff of 80 million pounds for Loosing 200,000 peoples life savings and running probably 50, 000 families futures (cheers)....! As a result of this recklessness behaiviour from the bankers, we have seen the some of the worst cuts in History taking place.

My point is this, some claim that it’s the rich that are hard done by and I think many stories like the ones above cant be justified. For example the bankers have had 0 repercussions as they are being protected by Scameron and his chums as they are all jolly good friends and the that’s whose interests they represent the mega rich.

As a result of this, its not the bankers that are having to pay for the recession on no no no..! It’s the:-

- Elderly who will have their winter fuel allowance and benefits cut. I

- It’s the sick; there will be less doctors nurses and staff to look after people who are Vulnerable.

- The youth – Youth club centres will close and University fees will treble.

- Education – Less schools and money will be spent = less Teachers, LSAs TAs.

- Public Sector Workers – Will have to work for longer with worse pensions, pay freezes, job cuts.

All of the above sectors did not cause the recession and yet they have to pay for in some form. So don’t start saying that the mega rich are getting a hard time, when they are still getting record bonuses and mega rich salaries and pretty much living the life of riley.

Add that to the fact that a rich person pays proportionality less tax that his servant and you have my argument.

You still have not answered a number of my questions....!

What do you think is more of a priority trying to cut down on single mothers that have been born in to a life of poverty of earning £60 a week of Benefits? Or trying to find missing billion spent on Tax evasion/avoidance which will help to

"when the people that have it better off gets the question if they would give some of it up for people in greater needs, do you think that they will"?

When the Disabled, youth, elderly and most vulnerable in society are having everything more or less take away from them after a recession which was caused by the richest people in society is this morally and ethically correct...?

villafc2000, for someone complaining about other peoples post you are racking up the number of useless ones yourself.

on the other hand i dont know how the inner workings of the UK welfare system works so i cant really comment on that.

Where im from we were lucky enough to have one of the better welfare systems in the world, and IMO the only way of actually getting a system like that to work is by having the nations population showing some solidarity, which im afraid to say you brits arent to good at. You are all easy to get behind a footie team, and you will all say the UK is the best country in the world etc etc. But when there is talks about raising tax, not frauding away billions of pounds making the revenue of taxes ALOT smaller then they should be, when the people that have it better off gets the question if they would give some of it up for people in greater needs, do you think that they will?

We dont get people who are as filthy rich as you do over here, or well, it happens but its rare. But on the other hand, id say most people live a resonable life, everyone has free health care, welfare, free education and it would take quite a few intentional cock ups before you would end up on the streets as there are "safety nets" so to speak. But it comes at a cost for everyone which is high taxes and so forth, but id say most people are more then happy to pay it as the returns are of good enough value.

the people i really do feel sorry for are not the teenage parents, its their grand children which will be absolutley shafted, growing up in a council flat with parents and grandparents which probably are unemployed, uneducated, poor and im guessing their parental skills arent even close to what they should be, and to be honest you cant blame them, they have undertaken a job which most 25 - 30 year olds arent cut out to do, im not sure on what kind of information and/or aid they get in learning how to raise their kids but im guessing its nothing worth mentioning?

Most teenage parents today still have a relative or grandparent etc that helps out raising the kid, but in a generation or two the teenage parents of today are the ones that will be trying to help their children raise their own kids, which doesnt sound like to much of a good idea to me.

ofcourse there are exeptions to everything, im sure there are some 14 year old mothers out there that do a better job then a 30 year old one.

Do you mind if I ask which country your from.

Useless points - Which ones do you think are useless...?

What part of the missing 40 -120 billion pounds which could be spent on things to help this country do you think it useless....?

I will point out there is a difference between a debate and complaining.

Hold tight. " Useless points"

"by having the nations population showing some solidarity, which im afraid to say you brits arent to good at"

So ALL BRITS arent good at this, is that what your saying...?

Part of your argument has already happened and a lot of it stems from the 80s. Brittain was absolutely dead in the 80's.

Many of the areas that were affected by unemployment were the areas that relied heavily on industries such as Coal, steel and the Docks (South wales and the North). These industries were shut down over night by Thatcher thus creating mass unemployment.

This mass unemployment has developed to generation after generation of mass unemployment as the industries have not been replaced. There fore communities have been abandoned and forgotten. Thus losing a working ethic which has been passed down through genrations.

Can you expect people to be part of a community, where there community has been taken away from them

If you dont believe me then look at how many Torrie MPs have been voted in to wales and the North of England in the last 30 years.

"when the people that have it better off gets the question if they would give some of it up for people in greater needs, do you think that they will"

It depends if that money belongs to them or not and weather its illegal....! You would be completely naive to think that there are no Taxes evaded and avoided. Which is why the Goverment has predicted the amounts about. I doubt they would make that up...!

After all Inland Tax revenue return forms are some of the best written forms of fiction coming out of this country today...!

"and you will all say the UK is the best country in the world etc etc"

Again I am the one making uselsss points, you are presuming that all Brits will think this, I for one dont think we are the best country far from it, so there goes your theory on that.

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey!

its gone quiet.

As a teenage mom and a single mom, I personally experience the shitty people who breed kids out there who aint fit to be classed as a parent!

My solution to this crappy system is unless you have paid into the system you shouldnt be allowed to take out the system! I was working from 16, I had my son at 18 worked nights to feed him put clothes on his back and roof over his head.

Yes i ve gone on to have other children but they were a result of a 5yr relationship that went tits up due to the death of my son, but I went back to work when my son was 6 weeks old and I am currently not working due to having a disabled child, but i have just applied to work for betterware so i can take my disabled daughter to work with me and I am hoping to start working soon!

These lazy moms who's 5year olds are at school and who sit on their fat asses all day smoking and drinking should be stopped. People who have never paid into the system should not be given council houses, I had to rent privately my first place and it was pokey. I never spend a penny of my kids money on anything but stuff for my children..

My other problem is people who dont know their kids dads......if they are that incapable of closing their legs and taking a name of the person who is gonna impregnate them then hell should they have kids......and that is aimed at my sister!!

Dads should pay for their kids but into trust funds so incapable mothers dont spend it on drugs and drink!

Oh and vouchers wouldnt work much as i got milk vouchers and the postman used to steal my vouchers!!!!

Firstly appologies for the death of your son you sound like a brave and committed mother.

You seem very passionate about this and very angry I dont know if you have read through previous posts.

I have a few questions for you

you seem very angry that people aren't being part of society/community

"These lazy moms who's 5year olds are at school and who sit on their fat asses all day smoking and drinking should be stopped"

Why do you think these Mums are not working - were they born with this attitude, is it because they had a lack of role models when they were growing up, a lack of education, a lack of cultural capital, little aspirations, did they grew up around people who were unemployed.

How can you expect the majority of these people to be part of a community when they have not been given a community to be part of....? This mainly stems from an underclass current which has been created by the Cameron's mentor Thatcher. Plus with a little help from the Daily mail...!

3-4 Million people were made unemployed in the 1980s through manufacturing industries which were viscously shut down. These jobs had for a long time provided lots of families with a hard working ethic, when these jobs were taken away so was the work ethic. 3-4 million people had 3-4 million wives/ girlfriends who had children and so the underclass was born unfortunately.

What amazes me, is the staggering lack of ignorance from some that some how think getting away with £ 60 + on Benefits is worse then a businessman evading 10 millions pounds per year through tax evasion/avoidance which is the equivalent to estimates of between 40 -120 billion pounds per year...!

Are you more concerned about a single mum getting benefits then a businessman getting away with 10 million though tax evasion/avoidance. If so then this is the problem

Then you have got Trident as well...! What are your view on this 2 billion for something we have never used and we are never hopefully/likely going to use...!

Can you answer me this....?

How many School, education resources center, loans, capital enterprise schemes, policemen, Doctors, Fireman, social workers, youth club centers, Houses, jobs, local businesses, ect ect ect could 1 Billion pounds pay for let alone 120 billion pay for.( The amount estimated by our current government for tax evasion/avoidance)

people need to get things in to perspective and stop going along with the Tabloid trash with is consumed so readily and ignorantly on a consistent basis.

In Villa terms its a bit like moaning about getting rid of Hogg and Osbourne when we have got rid of Downing, Young and Millner - RIDICULOUS

Do you think this would then help with Social Mobility.....?

Great to hear you views.

Wow he didn't say that very well observed and a fantastic contribution to this thread - What shall we talk about now, perhaps what exactly do bears get up to in woods or perhaps what came first the chicken or the egg. I am sure you would be able to make another superb contribution.........!

lol

yay I love how VILLAFC2000 posts...!

You know it makes sense.....................................................!

You can thanks Mr Camerons mentor Margaret Thatcher for the above...!

MODs you may as well close this one...!

Could that be because people are finally realizing the biased propaganda of the right wing media which is spooned to them on a daily basis might actually be completely out of proportion with the factual evidence....!

Hmmm -very interesting its all gone quiet...!

K L Samual mark 2

Wait till we are away to a real team.

Hmm, Driver...yum yum yum.

You never said.

There looking pretty good...!