Cjay

On 06/02/2019 at 16:44, Zatman said:

All gone a bit downhill since CJay and other Leeds fans stopped posting on here

Its almost as if they believe Spygate involved them and Bielsa sent them to other forums

Here i am

2 hours ago, Shropshire Lad said:

I agree far worse goes on. I said previously it should probably be a slap on the wrist, a fine. They should probably put something official down in order to deter it happening in the future.

It doesn’t really matter to me how much it goes on elsewhere, whether it does or doesn’t shouldn’t matter. Like it’s been said before, diving in the game happens all the time, but that doesn’t mean it should just be ignored when it’s been determined someone has done it. It’s unsporting and improper. It shouldn’t happen, but the football authorities should be more proactive in preventing.

I doubt he thinks he’s stupid, so the false modesty doesn’t really wash with me.

And I doubt that in years to come people will look back at this episode as some exemplary sporting morality lesson Bielsa has taught us.

I agree they should, if people are going to get so upset about something then make sure it cant happen again.

My point really the whole time has been just the hypocrisy of the whole situation, thats whats annoyed me more then anything.

Today Tony Pulis openly admitted that in the past he would call up mates at opposition clubs or local press to gather information on his opponents, just casually in a press conference when asked about Bielsa.

Thats not newsworthy, not even mentioned, Pulis openly admits it in a press conference and nobody cares, thats cheating, thats worse then what Bielsa did.

If Bielsa said that it would be all over Sky Sports.

I think the whole affair has reeked of xenophobia from the start.

Was bielsa wrong, yeah i suppose morally, would it have been so newsworthy if it was Pulis, Lampard, Warnock etc, nope not imo.

2 hours ago, Zatman said:

Wow ok. Do you have examples? 

Well abusing  grieving 9/11 relatives the day after 9/11 is a start? Thats Lampard and Jody Morris.

No need to go into examples of the questionable character of quite a few of the critics, its all online, Gary Neville of all people was very quick to round on one journalist who jumped on the bandwagon.

If your going to question a mans integrity and whatever then you better be squeaky clean imo or your a hypocrite.

22 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I suppose these critics did worse than have failed drugs test as a player? 

Good god man compared to some of the things the critics have got up to a failed drugs test is nothing.

Morals go well beyond the realms of football, you cant preach morals and get upto some of the things his critics have in there private lives.

32 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said:

Whether it’s illegal or not is not the point I was making (which was a daft extreme example that I was making to highlight that just because one person is ok with something, someone else might not be).

You saying Bielsa would be happy to let other managers watch Leeds train doesn’t mean that other managers should be ok with their training sessions being spied on. 

I’m sure Bielsa is great and a brilliant tactician blah blah blah, so if he doesn’t need to spy on the opposition then don’t. Pretty damn simple really.

Admittedly a strange point but Bielsa has been a lot more honest then those in football  who have condemned him.

Personally i think its not a big deal, far worse goes on and its a mountain out of a mole hill.

There are people claiming it doesnt go on in this country then admitting they take precautions, why take precautions if it doesnt go on?

He also said the only reason he does it because he "is stupid". 

Hypocrisy is rife in football and Bielsa has exposed it, fair play to him.

2 hours ago, Zatman said:

Pep is hardly a man of morality now is he

Compared to some of the critics he is an absolute Saint.

2 hours ago, Shropshire Lad said:

 

Whether Bielsa is happy is for other clubs to watch his training sessions is utterly irrelevant to whether other managers should accept that their training sessions are being spied on.

Go back a few pages to the humorous post by @HanoiVillan. I’m more than happy for Gemma Arterton to watch me shower, the invitation is there for her, no problem for me. So because I’m fine with it, I’ll just take it as read that she wouldn’t have a problem returning the favour without running the idea before her first.

Well no because that is actually illegal, which this isnt, its open to interpretation.

Anyway we have an indication of clear bias in the EFL panel that makes the decision thanks to Steve Lansdown, so thats great for us, EFL got a nightmare on there hands now.

I did agree it was bad manners, no more then that, after the fuss thats been made then stuff the rest.

18 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Not that I'm particularly bothered by the spying thing, I don't think it's a massive deal, but the above really isn't the same thing.

True.

But i doubt Bielsa would care if he was spied on, so just tell everyone to have at it, that way if we still beat them then they cant complain. 

22 hours ago, BOF said:

Before Leeds even hired Bielsa, Guardiola was on record as saying that he's the best coach in the world.  Even if that's slightly hyperbolic, it shows the esteem he is held in by arguably the best coach.  People should just learn what they can from him and move on from this now.  You've got a world class coach.  Most people knew that.  But now you've got a stone cold f**king leg-end

Pep has spoken up for Bielsa again today, very pleased he did that 

it does seem that Bielsa has played a bit of a blinder, he has turned the story around, turned the attention on to the hypocrisy in English football and got a lot of support from it, good man Bielsa. 

First up, Guardiola was asked about the big story of the week after one of his managerial idols, Marcelo Bielsa, who coaches Leeds, admitted to spying on opponents. Does it affect Pep’s admiration for ‘El Loco’?

“My respect remains the same, absolutely the same,” Pep said of Bielsa. “I admired what he has done in the past, why should I change my opinion? I know him, I would not say perfectly, but a little bit. I understand Frank Lampard too, both sides are understandable.

“Barcelona was a bunker, it was impossible to see. The story is true. I saw the highlights, I didn’t see the whole press conference and no manager around the world works with the amount of information he produces for every single game and players. It is unique. What I learned from what he said is that football belongs to the players. The players make the difference.” 

No its not Pep, they all do it apparently, how silly of you. 

Glad Pep spoke up for Bielsa, means a lot more coming from him then criticism from ex players and lower league managers. 

17 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

If someone's been stopped with pliers and binoculars pointing through the fences at Derby I'd be pretty pissed if I was Lamps too. In American sports you'd get severely punished if you sneaked into a closed training, especially illegally using tools to get through barriers, and got caught.

My guess is that it'll just enhance Bielsa's reputation. Though I'm not sure if it'll keep him mentally stable if he's stopped from doing it from now on. Leeds better start prescribing anti-anxiety medication asap, because from now on in all EFL clubs will be on the lookout for anyone from Leeds. Alernatively you let the Leeds guys in and do the opposite to what you're going to do in the game - counter spy tactics at its best. 

If Leeds' goals and conceded goals from set-pieces suddenly increase we'll know the reason. I knew Pontus Jansson was too much of an oaf to be this good all on his own. 

There were no pliers, ladders or binoculars, this was reported by i think one newspaper and everyone else just ran with it.

No property damage, no trespassing, no police on the training ground (according to the police). Training was interrupted for a few minutes then went on again according to Carson.

Fat Frank made a fuss, made untrue allegations, got schooled in public.

Yes analysis is normal now but Bielsa is legendary for his attention to detail, no manager will admit it publicly but id be amazed if they go to such lengths as Bielsa does, people travel thousands of miles to watch what we saw yesterday, not your average manager either, multiple title winning managers like Conte have been spotted at one of Bielsas talks.

Personally id like Bielsa to invite every Championship manager to watch us before the game, just to shut them all up. 

27 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Was that just a load of willy waving from Bielsa?

We know he scouts teams. Well done.

How does his powerpoint answer sending people to watch people train? That should be banned. I'd imagine it will be soon.

It gives big teams like Man Utd as an example an unfair advantage because you can't go and watch them train. You can't get near their training complex without getting through two security gates.

A lot of odd celebration going on. I presume they're still getting punished.

"I don't need to watch their training to know how they play" Then why are you sending people? He hasn't answered anything. Just boasted about how much info others provide to him.

He is sending people because he is an obsessive who gets anxiety over any possibility that he or his team has missed something.

Bielsa personally analysis everything, if you read about him yes he has a team but he personally goes through everything, he is obsessive.

He doesnt send scouts to learn something new, its to put HIS mind at rest, its for his own piece of mind.

Far be it from me to speculate on the mans personal life and I'm not sure how to word this as respectfully as possible. 

Bielsa clearly has a way of doing things, an obsessive mind, compulsive behaviour.

I think the scouting thing isnt about finding out things for the club its more about his own i dont know how to say it tbh.

He does it because it clarifies what he already knows. I dont know how to word it tbh.

On the one hand I'm not sure how wise being so honest was.

On the other hand fair play MB.

This didnt have to be a big deal, we apologised, Sky kept whipping it up, unsubstantiated claims about pliers and ladders, moral compasses like Stan Collymore questioning Bielsas integrity and accusing him of cheating.

So MB spends 70minutes analysing Derby in public showing every scrap of detail he has.

Then ends with "i dont have to watch an opponent train to know about them, and he drops the mic on the way out. . . . 

Like a Boss!!!!!

We've got Jermaine Jenas giving Bielsa stick and questioning his coaching ability. 

Thats like the bloke who operates the deep fat fryer down your local chippy giving Gordon Ramsey a hard time. 

Ridiculous 

Will Frank Lampard be handing back his 04/05 and 05/06 title medals?

Or his 05/06 FA Cup Medal? Or his 2 League cup medals from the same period? 

Or the many many individual awards he got during Joses first spell at Chelsea.

I only ask because its common knowledge that AVB used to sneak around spying on opposition training sessions and report back to Jose.

Frank cant claim not to know this, even if you believe a senior player like Lampard wasnt told, it was in the national papers at the time.

Ferguson had a helicopter fly over the City training ground before the Manchester derby. 

Its interesting that players at the top of the tree with titles and things are totally unbothered, Carragher, Neville, Linekar, Gazza etc, largely its the nearly men who are outraged.

Football is a shady business and clubs find out information in so many different ways.

Its hypocritical of Lampard who benifited from the same thing and the press who as Neville pointed out go to extreme lengths to get information, no room for them to criticise Bielsa. 

Should he have done it, probably not, is it totally unheard of in this country, no, 2 of the most successful managers in world football history both did it in this country.

Faux outrage by hypocritical media.

Fair play to those who called it out for what it was, including fans and players from both Manchester Clubs which was a shock.

Given Brentford got you to pay £12mil for Hogan few years back and Maupay has more goals and assists surely they'd want £15mil plus for him?

Maybe Hogan would take Abrahms role if he goes? 

Personally i found it odd that Dean Smith changed his style. 

You sat deeper, went long, tried to play on the break for most of the game. 

But your best periods were when you passed the ball to feet and pressed high like a normal Dean Smith side does. 

Just odd that Smith would invite pressure onto his flimsy defence. Kind of makes sense going long, beat our press but as the home side thought it was a strange choice and maybe showed us to much respect.

Especially given how he referenced the Brentford Vs Leeds match just before he left, they didnt set up how you did that day at Elland  Road.

3 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Have to be realistic, top 2 is gone now after that collapse.

From 2-0 up that felt like we were playing Man United, not Leeds United.

Today we saw the standard of a top 2 team and after the good first half hour we fell painfully short.

Reasons? Big one is without Grealish we simply are too slow getting the ball out to our wide players and it's no good having Bolaise and El Ghazi/Kodjia out there if we can't get them the ball. They become passengers in the team then.

Leeds were so quick transitioning the play from central midfield out wide and well that 12 year old kid Clarke and Allioski had field days one v one against AEM (easily his worst game for us) and Hutton.

McGinn was out MOTM I thought but he can't press for 90 minutes as he needs help from others. I thought Whelan was decent aswell. Apart from goals and odd good free kick Hourihane offers little in general play and going forward he should just be a squad player.

Hopefully this dosen't knock us back too much. It was a reality check for top 2, not play offs as Boro, Derby, Forest and possibly Norwich are more on our level tbh.

There's no need to be offensive

15 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Have you seen our lineup mate?

 

Yeah i have now, surprised no El Ghazi.

Elmo-Bree-Chester-Hutton thats the way it will be is it?

Still, Roofe was poor last game, needed Bamford to change it and now we havent got him.

The other bloke who changed the game is on the bench again.

14 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

You shouldn't be too worried mate, we have 3 x right backs in our back 4 again, thank you Bruce you left us in a great state

Least all your back 4 are actual defenders

And you havent the only Manchester Citt Winger who is useless on your wing.

Not feeling as confident now.

Cm at cb, no Bamford, no striker on the bench, our only really decent option off the bench offensively is an 18 year old.

I'll take a draw now please 

12 hours ago, TRO said:

Our defence, will be music to your ears and Jack being out, will be an advantage to your cause.

We will come unstuck if we play like we did against Stoke.

However, i have a sneaky feeling we could have a return to form, in which case it could be difficult for you.

wouldn't like to call it .....but i would just love a clean sheet, in which case i think we will win.

I am concerned, Bielsa comparing you to WBA didnt help given what happened.

If you can find form then we may be in trouble just because despite our very impressive defensive record we are vulnerable like you and any team who plays the style we do.

Our performances recently have been more gritty then sparkling, but gritty is ok for a spell. 

Its hard to predict, we have had to block the least crosses and shots for a reason, we are very good at winning the ball back high up the pitch.

That being said your scoring lots of goals, you got 3 vs Boro. 

Just a sneaky feeling having read and looked at the highlights from Stoke, i think the loss of Grealish may be the difference.

Could be totally wrong but if we can cut the supply line off to Abraham and press you high then we have a chance imo.

But a draw will do lol

2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think that's more important for you than us. For us, they're now 14 points away from us - we need to win five more of the next 23 than they do. I think they'll fade away, but they've put in a hell of a first half.

True, just to be 5mins or so from being practically guaranteed 1st at xmas (you would have had to beat us by 5), to needing to win at a ground that we tend to struggle at is a right kick in the baubles.

They have done extremely well tbf, cant fathom how, we battered them at Carrow Road, dreadful that day.

10 of Norwichs 14 wins in the league have been by 1 goal.

A lot of those goals have been very late, 80th minute and later.

Sign of a good side maybe but still dont think its sustainable.