Cjay

37 minutes ago, Dick said:

Been thinking about what C stands for in your name. Does the word rhyme with runt?

Don't have to ask the inspiration for your name.

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Technically you are right, but let's get the whole thing in perspective.

Its was Conor Hourihane who set the tone in the game, for " gentlemanly conduct" so he was affected the most....He is not that kinda player, so it was clearly out of character and motivated by circumstances that challenge a guy from the temperance society. in my view it was borne out frustration, where your guys seized an opportunity that was morally questionable and took advantage, giving scant regard for the consequences.

Question.....If you was in a pub and bought a guy a drink?....popped outside and when you come back he drunk yours but denied it....so you give him the benefit of the doubt....you buy another drink and pop off to the loo, when you come back he has drunk it again.I would guess if you gave him a dig in the guts, most of the pub would applaud.

Conor was actually the victim here Cjay.

Thats all that matters, technically i was right as you say.

Technically what he did was strike an opponent, the force is irrelevant as the law says, it was an aggressive act.

On the pub scenario you're probably right but afterwards if the guy called the police and showed them footage then you would be probably be charged with battery. 

Dont understand why people are saying "ah but Klich didnt go down or flinch" maybe Hourihane is soft, doesnt mean intent wasnt there 

8 minutes ago, Dale said:

I've watched this a few times (not in light of this comment) - I'm gonna throw out an Arsene and say I only saw him grab him by the lapels? 

Done now anyway, but if that isnt a hit what is he doing? 

Bamford got what he deserved Hourihane didnt.

He clearly struck Klich, a punch, a hit, whatever it wasnt necessary and the rules state  "Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person, regardless of whether contact is made".

Its clearly an aggressive action.

But then again Canos headbutted Ali and that wasnt violent either. 

12 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

1. No he didn't

and

2. No you can't.

Congrats on totally missing the point though  

 He bloody did

And i know what your point was, players are far to protected these days imo.

But at least it keeps there hair in place (i had hair like Jacks years ago).

2 hours ago, imavillan said:

Intriguing comments on Jack and flair players....

When a player gets challenged,  its either a foul or it isn't. The severity of the foul/touch on the player does not come into it.

Flair players get kicked more than most usually fall down because, as you have said, they get kicked.

Usually, a player that gets kicked its more often than not a foul.

He's the most fouled player in the league for a reason, he's been fouled the most. Simple as that.

 

Strange, but what i've noticed is the opposing fans that do not like Grealish or think he's a cheat or a diver are the ones who's teams foul him the most.

Certain players go down far more easily then most, it is a contact sport after all (just about) and just because a player gets touched it doesnt mean its a foul. 

Partly why i prefer Messi to Ronaldo, absolutely no doubt both of them have been on the receiving end of a lot of rough treatment, yet only one of them has a reputation for being a diver or for being soft or whatever you want to call it. 

On the most fouled bit, i dont see this as a defence, most fouled just means the ref has given the most fouls in Grealish's favour, it doesn't mean that they were all fouls or that he didnt go down easily and con the ref, there are examples from yesterdays game where even Villa fans agree he went down very easily, it wasnt a foul but the ref gave it.

I think it was Dean Ashton or someone like that talking about this sort of thing the other week (not regarding Grealish, think it was a Norwich player) but he pointed out the Norwich player was "clever" he initiated contact by pushing the ball away then when the defender went to put a tackle in the Norwich player basically made sure the defender had to make contact with him then went down, no intention of going for the ball the attacker had just pushed away, he was only interested in initiating or forcing contact in order to win a free kick.  He got the freekick, but as the pundit pointed out if you watch it its cheating, its conning the ref, its not clever its deception but there is contact so it looks like a foul. 

As an aside on the most fouled bit being justification, Messi is second for most dribbles in La Liga which shows he as we know carries the ball often, but he is 13th for Fouled, so does that mean teams in La Liga fear 12 players more then Messi hence why he is less fouled or is he less bothered about winning freekicks and more bothered about scoring goals and creating chances? 

5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

In the Middle Ages you could punch people and break their legs. Football's gone soft. It should all still be legal

In 2019 you still can apparently, Hourihane did.

6 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I totally agree. That's our fault. We shouldn't have done it. I'd be interested to see your reaction if we didn't, and we scored though.

But we did kick it out. It's basic sportsmanship to return the favour.

Not only that but your bloke slowed down, pretended to kick it out and passed it through catching everyone off guard. That's scummy.

Probably be the same as yours now but still would think we were tits for assuming you would put it out.

Agree with the last bit, that was the main issue imo.

3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

The Oliviera one widely regarded as an accident?

If it's intentional then i would strongly abhor his behaviour (like the Ibra one) but I've watched it hundreds of times and I'm not clear there's intent.

And again, not really sure on the relevancy of it either. Your CB went in strongly on our CM. It was a bad challenge, and he was lucky to escape injury. If it were our player on yours, you would agree with.

Fan bias was my point, fans see things differently as you say in your last line.

Anyway should do something productive for a while

5 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

not that you're suggesting refs stop play for all injuries, but i'm already skeptical as to how many players clutching their heads actually have head injuries or whether they're just trying to get the game stopped. maybe the answer is just to say across the board tough tits if your man is down, carry on unless the ref stops it. i wonder if yesterday's events will prompt the discussion, or perhaps teams could agree on an approach pre game between the managers and/or captains

If a player is injured a ref stops it, if he doesnt the game goes on as normal, then there is no grey area.

I'm sceptical whenever any player goes down ours included.

Tbf players arent meant to kick it out but they do anyway.

3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

No? Where have I? What he did to Ibra was indefensible, not sure what it has to do with Cooper almost breaking Grealish's ankle though.

This is so bizarre. You're not only inconsistent with your views but you're also projecting pretty hard onto me.

 

I asked if you had, was referring to the Oliviera one.

It was a reference to bias fans have.

6 minutes ago, Robbie09 said:

I seem to recall him feigning he’d been hit in the head in a previous game against us when replays showed no contact. Odd for someone who allegedly would head a brick

Did he?

5 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

It's funny you accuse Grealish of deceiving refs when your own bloke got one of ours sent off by pretending to be smacked in the face.

Grealish wins a lot of fouls, because, and you'll like this, he's a bloody good player. Same with McGinn.

And Bamford was a clearing in the woods for what he did.

And Grealish does deceive refs, and you won't agree because he is your player which is fair enough.

And he is a good player,so is Ronaldo and he is famous for deceiving refs as are many good players.

Players like Grealish are the worst for it, flair players who do get kicked more then most they do have a habit of falling down more then most.

Ronaldo, Neymar, Zaha loads of them.

Doesnt mean they arent talented (Grealish is clearly).

9 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

And they're wrong. It's wild and out of control. You can't tackle like that. It isn't soft to protect players from broken bones, which that tackle could have easily have resulted in.

If it were Mings on Hernandez, or Cooper on literally any other Villa player, you'd be agreeing with us. But weirdly, other fans have this thing about Grealish. Must be jealousy.

I probably would i agree, if that was Mings on Hernandez I'm sure i would.

But it wasnt so i will defend my player although i did concede i can see why he got booked.

We are all biased, Mings has history for stamping on people, did you defend him?

Grealish reminds me of Saiz and Saiz got on my tits for all his talent.

9 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

How dare he want yellow cards for being fouled eh 

What about Hernandez's pretty awful challenge on Green too?

How dare he try and get another player sent off? 

Pablo's one was a booking the sort you see in every game.

5 minutes ago, Robbie09 said:

Roberts age has nothing to do with not putting the ball out. it was a deliberate attempt to cheat. Your players targetted Grealish yesterday, end of. Can't remember McGinn falling over but of course your players are as white as the shirt they wear. Jansson has never tried to deceive a ref has he?

Grealish was man marked by Phillips, we've done the same thing to other players. 

He was targeted in the sense of that but he spends a lot of time looking for fouls, I've seen your own fans admit that, the guy may get some rough challenges as most flair players do but he very much buys a lot of fouls imo.

1st half think it was Klich, bumped into McGinn and Mcginn fell forward, looked at the ref for a pen then got up.

In terms of the waving card thing no, that was never Jansson's thing, Saiz yes, Jansson no.

3 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Leeds fans are talking like it was a normal slide tackle and he caught him with his trailing leg.

He absolutely launched himself into that and made absolutely sure he was getting man and ball.

If that had been a red, you wouldn't see many neutrals complaining. Awful tackle.

 

Edit: and for balance I thought McGinn's tackle that he got booked for was awful too. He did lose his footing, but it was still a bad bad challenge.

Lot of neutrals think it was a fair challenge tbh mate if you check.

It was a foul in todays game but personally i think the game is to soft now and a lot of "fouls" in the game weren't even fouls.

Grealish doesnt help himself imo, its interesting the only fans who think he isnt a cheat or a bit soft are you (and why would you).

McGinn was lucky i agree, did slip but was a tackle of anger and intent.

1 hour ago, tomav84 said:

To be fair, i agreed with pretty much everything you said...the cooper tackle i agree was a booking but no more. he was out of control (despite winning the ball) but dont think his aim was to injure jack, which is generally the definition of a red.

The bit of your post i left above, yes you should play to the whistle, but your man stopped...actually stopped...i even think there was a motion like he was about to put it out, before knocking it down the line. in this case, i think we can easily be forgiven for not playing to the whistle and is the reason for the reactions afterwards. it was deliberately deceptive and incredibly unsportsmanlike.

fair play to bielsa for ordering the goal and the players for allowing him through (except that tosspot janssen...imagine had he actually stopped adomah? that would have inflamed the situation once again and i guarantee there would have been more reds...ridiculous behaviour)

Think as you say that was the issue, Roberts looked like he was going to put it out and then didnt, if he had carried on as normal then that would have been different.

I do wonder if because Kodjia had gone down not long before then popped up after a short while did the players remember that?

As i said the kicking it out thing is a bit to easy to take advantage of imo and just shouldn't happen.

If a player is injured the ref stops it, that would end this sort of situation.

Players arent meant to put it out.

3 minutes ago, Robbie09 said:

Just Bamford? How about Roberts for his deliberate cheating and Jansson for trying to tackle Albert? All part of the game is it?

Roberts was a young man under extreme pressure, think its a bit unfair to criticise him to much.

I dont know what Jansson was doing, frustrated but he didnt really try to tackle imo, it was a half hearted attempt.

How about Hourihane for grabbing and apparently punching Klich or McGinn i think it was falling over 1st half to win a pen (something he did i think vs Bristol City to). Or Grealish for trying to get someone booked or sent off?

Could go round and circles, lets not pretend your players are whiter then white.

Bamford will probably get a ban and I'd think so will Hourihane.

2 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

During the game I probably would, but looking at the photo of his ankle rolled over I'd state he was lucky to not get sent off. Awful challenge.

Its during the game that matters though, i think a sending off would have been very harsh, in hindsight within the laws of the game maybe but in hindsight maybe McGinn was a bit fortunate to.

He slipped but that was a tackle full of anger and intent 

3 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

If that was on Hernandez @Cjay you'd be disgusted and rightfully so. It was totally unnecessary force and looking at that pic, he's lucky not to break his ankle/leg.

As you say though, looking at that pic yes it looks bad but i would imagine quite a few tackles look worse if you freeze frame.

I'm sure i would and you would probably try to defend it to, we are biased lol.

What bothered me most was if Grealish was so hurt why was he immediately up waving fake cards and screaming? 

Thats another horrible thing thats crept into the game, if your hurt fine, but dont try and ref the game and hardly good sportsmanship.

6 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

 

I agree with most of the rest, but good tackle, really? They're both very lucky to have stayed on the pitch after that. 

In this day and age yes its not good, but football has become soft and not that many years ago that was a great tackle.

Also not entirely sure how a player is meant to stop himself with the follow through?  

By the laws of the game now its a foul but to me its a full blooded challenge where a defender takes man and ball and tbf had it been Mings on Hernandez i think you guys would say the same mate.

Hello.

Thought I'd let you all vent before saying anything (usually dont say anything anyway till the next day).

Thought it was a good game and not the friendly i expected, 2 teams who wanted to win and tried to win.

Whoever it was said you were better defensively, i agree, thought your 2 cbs were your best players by a mile,so many blocks.

Thought we played the better overall (marginally) and caused you problems withour pressing and moved the ball quicker then you but as usual our finishing was very poor and we failed to make the best of good situations, some of it down to your defending some of it just because thats what we'v done all season (we'd be top if this wasn't the case).

Thought you had the best chances, Kodjia especially had that 1 chance where you just have to hit the target, McGinn had the header and you also had 1 or 2 situations where you should have done better although like your defence ours did very well to.

Now for the important bit. . . . Yes Bielsa was right to order us to let you have the goal, you put it out for us so its right to return the favour.

However!!!! You should play to the whistle, your taught that when your like 10.

I dont like this putting the ball out for an "injured" player nonsense, its a sportsman lke gesture in a game full of players who are basically cheats, football isnt an honest game and i just think its a naive unspoken rule that does get taken advantage of.

Bamford is a dick, no excuses for that.

Referee was awful (you will disagree of course with this bit) but i thought he favoured you greatly (as did it seems many other club fans and indeed Benjamin Bloom, dont know if anyone watches his stuff). 

I noticed some complaining about the Cooper tackle on Grealish (good tackle imo but yes in the laws of the game a booking). However with fair play and sportsmanship being a topic for this game was it sportsman like for Grealish to pop up chase the ref and wave imaginary cards before falling down again? Dean Smith saying Grealish deserves "special treatment" is daft, he is the best protected player in the league hence the amount of fouls he gets.

You will point to the fouls and say "look he gets rough treatment" but all that proves is he spends a lot of time on the floor (as does McGinn evidently seeing as he is 2nd).  Just because he gets a lot of fouls doesnt mean he deserves them or gets extra rough treatment (Messi isnt even top 10 in la Liga for fouled).

Thought we kept Grealish quiet anyway, Green looks a talent and caused problems, Mings and Tuenzebe were solid and impressed bringing the ball out, thought Mcginn did ok but reasonably handled and i thought El Ghazi was your biggest threat.

A draw was fair i thought , think it would have ended 0-0 in the end anyway and the teams got a look at each other which is good for the playoffs.

All in all a decent game, both teams deserve credit for going for it and it would certainly make for a tasty Final.

1 hour ago, Adam2003 said:

I was just trying to work out if you’d instead be going hell for leather trying to overturn goal difference to Sheffield United if we rest players...

We beat you 7-0 and Ipswich 8-0 Stoke beat Blades after Billy Sharp scores an own goal.

If Carlsberg did results  . . . . . . .

1 hour ago, Adam2003 said:

I think it’s nice that you’ve set out all those reasons for your thinking but I think Jack is just a much better player than Hernandez, our team is a better team than yours, and we will see you off pretty comfortably in the playoffs if you get past Derby.

Were you one of the Leeds fans on here who was posting stats a few months back trying to disprove the fact that Bielsa’s teams always crumble at the end of the season? Guessing your bottling the title race was coincidence, right?

Honestly if we don’t go up I do hope it’s Leeds as you’re a great club but I’m less impressed with your current outfit than a few months ago for sure. 

Good luck for your semi! Let’s hope for no injuries tomorrow.

Our form since the turn of the year hasnt been good enough, pure and simple, Norwich and Sheffield United have been in great form during that time and we have to accept that and accept the playoffs.

You also have been in great form over the last 10 games, have to respect that to, but i see no reason why we should fear you or anyone else.

Dont know if that was me tbh, blaming "Bielsa burnout" for our form is a bit simplistic, traditionally going back years we fade 2nd half of the season, its frustrating but its common, and then you throw in injuries and a poor January window.

Looking forward to tomorrow now, hoping to see some of our kids get a chance

Won't read to much into tomorrows result win lose or draw.