Cjay

2 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I wasn't really complaining, I was explaining. As you've said, you've had injuries of your own. Injuries and suspensions are nothing new in football. In fact, we had 3 centre halves out on Monday (Tuanzebe, Chester and Hause) and low and behold, with time given to the manager to build the team, identity and the squad we coped a lot better. But I'm not kidding when I say our defence at one point was Hutton - Elphick - Bree - Elmo. It's hard to describe to you just how bad that looks in practice. 

Also side note - Four Four Two magazine stated in their piece on Grealish that if he had been fit all season he'd be at number 1, did they not?

Did they constantly pass to the left? Would seem the natural thing for a group of right backs to do?

Its obvious you have better cbs now, Mings is a good player when fit (not sure he is the full shilling though), Chester is class, dont know much about the other two, Wolves fans dont seem to rate Hause at all.

They did indeed which is there opinion (and I'm sure yours). Always struck me as a cop out that when people say that "if such and such was fit they'd be the best", part of being a professional footballer is being fit,  if you cant stay fit thats your own fault and shouldn't be used as an out.

Grealish clearly is a talented lad but if he cant stay fit then he isnt the best player anywhere consistently and part of being the best is consistency imo which is reflected in the FFT vote, cant judge a player if he hardly plays.

That's part of what sets Pablo and him apart for me and what makes Pablo better. People will always disagree on talent understandably,  Pablo Hernandez is 34 now and probably playing his best football since the Valencia days nearly a decade ago. A real joy is Pablo to watch and i really wish we could have had him in his prime years, around 2010 before injuries started. People forget that Valencia were  a top 3 La Liga side consistently then and Pablo was one of the stars of a side containing David Villa and David  Silva who attracted interest from both Liverpool and Man City, anyway i digress.

 Pablo has consistently for years now been a top performer in this league (the most creative player officially since arriving in the Championship) and played the majority of matches, about 83%.

Jack from looking has played maybe 60%? 

While Jack obviously has more potential now imo he cant be considered the best because he just hasnt played often enough.

That's the difference for me, on his day Grealish is quality at this level same as Pablo, but Grealish isnt fit enough to have enough days

2 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

True. Funny you should say that actually, we have a point more than you since Smith took over...

As we celebrate promotion you guys can comfort yourselves with that

21 hours ago, VILLAMARV said:

1 man team innit

Basically you'd be shite without Elmo, i gotcha.

20 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

To put things further in perspective for you @Cjay over the last 10 games we have conceded 5 goals, 1 penalty and 4 from open play. One of those was a cross and another a goalkeeping error, spilling a free kick. So essentially 2 legitimate team goals. Two. In ten games.

So no, as important as he is it isn't all about Jack.

Thats decent, it was always your defensive issues that imo made you weak, if those are sorted that does worry me tbh.

20 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

To say we are 'a bit of a state results wise' without Grealish whilst technically true, lacks context. We also lost Tuanzebe at the same time and were left with James Bree at centre half, who now can't get a game for Ipswich, and one actual half fit central defender, who has subsequently had surgery and been shut down for the season. Our back 4 at one point consisted of 3 right backs. Not just for one game, but several. Our defence was left horrendously deficient by Bruce and by the time reinforcements arrived and February rolled around, we were low on confidence and just kinda done with it all. 

Yes results initially turned around quickly under Smith, but that was in part because he relied early on Grealish to pull the strings. It's not a simple ask going from the turgid, football by the numbers shite we were churning out under Bruce to what we are now. Nobody had settled into the DM role, nobody had *really* settled into this completely different (and brilliant) playing style at all and so everything unravelled, quickly. We also rely heavily on our centre halves to manage the game, see paragraph 1. 

Imagine your season missing Hernandez for 14 games over the winter, also known as the second best player in the division, as well as Cooper and Pontus. That's basically where we were at. Still, turn that result against Leeds around at Villa Park and we are playing to go ahead of you on Sunday.

None of this is to undermine exactly what Grealish brings. He's an astonishing footballer, as good as we have produced since Brian Little. So of course we are going to miss him when he is out, but throw in a few additional curve balls and you have the mess that we became. Thankfully, we still managed to grind out the draws which see us where we are today. Breathing down your necks. Delighted to take you on, any time and anywhere.

Hopefully Wembley. 

Dont really have to imagine mate, our injury issues are well documented and continue to this day lol. Cooper has missed 10 games, Jansson has missed 7, Hernandez has missed 7, Ayling has missed 8, Douglas has missed 8 (will be 10 and then the 2 for playoffs),  Ali is out for the rest of the season, Bamford has missed 23, Roofe has missed 13 (will be 14 on Sunday) Berardi has missed 24, Forshaw has missed 14 games, Dallas has missed 13 games, Clarke missed 6, Shacks missed 3, and there may be more i cant find.

Managers have to find a way imo, no way we should be top 3 with an injury list like that. 

I will concede Hernandez is the 2nd best player in the league if you concede Jack is 10th? That was the FFT vote result.

Make a good point about draws actually, you have lost fewer then us, but we have more wins, while our gung ho attitude is exciting do feel it has cost us at times.

Passing out from the back, so can understand why cb issues would hinder you although i do refer to my post about our own issues, can teams really complain about injuries as an excuse when the team in 3rd has had that? 

Definitely respectful of your form and some quality players, worried about our own form and more worryingly the seeming confidence drain.

However dont see why we should fear anyone if it is to be playoffs, we have beaten all of you at least once if it stays this way for the top 6.

We are the best of the rest officially and with Norwich have spent by far the longest top and top 2 (no other sides even close in that respect including the Blades).

Apprehensive and disappointed atm but once/if playoffs are confirmed excitement should return

Hopefully we can lay a marker down on Sunday and have another side in the playoffs who we have done the double over (Bristol City or Derby would be one) or if not, provided Boro dont make it should we beat you then whether its Bristol City or Derby with us you and WBA we will have beaten every side in the playoffs last time we met.

Come to think of it i cant remember how the playoffs work 3rd play 5th then 4th play 6th? That it.

17 hours ago, romavillan said:

That poor run w/o Grealish was also without a defence pretty much. Chester was playing through injury every week and hasn't featured for that reason since we had the option to play someone else in there. Tuanzebe was out and was our only way out from the back, he held it together during the good run when Smith first came in. Lansbury was injured (surprise) who until we got Carroll was the only player who could play Jack's role other than Jack. 

Once the new signings had bedded in a bit it coincided with Jack coming back and it all clicked. Had it just been Jack that was out, not us having a totally unbalanced squad before Jan that meant one or two injuries at the back left us without a defence, not having other injuries too etc. then we probably would have got a few more points through the worst run. We recently won without Jack in the side and we have at least half a dozen players on the scoresheet in the last run of wins, and plenty turning up wit assists too. 

That said, our captain is rightly the first name on the team sheet. Imagine if your captain was from woodhouse or little london and was a **** top drawer attacking talent. You'd probably miss him when injured too right?

Did expect you to improve if you improved the defence, bit pathetic on Bruces part that given the funds you needed to improve anything tbh.

Your ffp situation is a source of bafflement tbf

50 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

El Ghazi, Mings, McGinn and Grealish were the 4 I was on about. If the option was there to build around them we'd be laughing next year.

We're going up though obvs

There's more to it than style of play. It feels good.

McGinn and Grealish would make decent backups tbf for us next season when Pablo and Klich need a rest

1 hour ago, Shropshire Lad said:

Jack was a factor in that bad run, the biggest factor admittedly, but there were others things at play I think. If we played those dozen or so fixtures right now, without Jack, I reckon our points return would be much higher.

Regarding resting him for this match, I’m unsure/indifferent to it. 

I can see the argument for playing our best players, going for the win, keeping the momentum going. I can see the argument for not tempting fate and resting players.

I really don’t mind. What could have been a pivotal fixture for both teams (almost a season curtain closer) now appears more likely to be a damp squib. 

In answer to your question, yeah, I think we could rest him and get a result, because I think this game is almost going to be like a friendly in it’s manner, potentially a bit of a free-for-all. Both clubs will be playing with one eye on the fixtures in May.

Should results go how we expect on Saturday id like/hope we will give some of our kids a chance.

Maybe it will end up being the best attended u23 game ever!!!!

1 hour ago, Lord Willard said:

So that's your plan eh!

Wouldn't every team suffer without their best player? Without him it would be alot harder 100% but we have other quality players. McGinn for example is also a vital player 

 

Tbh we plan on getting Phillips to ruin Jack's hair do, we figure that will leave him in tears and having to be subbed

They would true, but your stats without Grealish seem incredibly poor for so long that its a surprise you havent found a way to adapt yet.

Rate Mcginn highly, also a fan of Hourihane who imo is pretty underrated.

5 hours ago, Herman22 said:

I think there are two parts to this. The first "Are thing better under DS?" The quick answer is yes. The slightly longer answer, even when we were winning games under Bruce we were never controlling the game. When we went 1 up the plan was always to sit back and try spring a break. It worked at times last season but it was dour football. Under Smith, the players are encouraged to play and actually try to influence the game no matter what the score. I would love to get promoted this season but with DS I'm confident if it doesn't happen this year it will happen next year. 

The second part is about Super Jack, there's no doubt we are a much much better team with him in there. He is so important not only in what he does but also the amount of attention he gets from the opposition which creates space for others. For me he's the best player in this league and any team would miss that in their team. I think most of us know that without promotion this year he will most likely go in the summer, but he's been unplayable at times since he's returned. I'd be tempted to leave him out at the weekend, no doubt Leeds will target him and he doesn't get much protection from refs. Any sort of injury right now could mean missing the playoffs. 

Bruce was always a negative sod, win if you can but dont lose at all costs. Given your defensive frailties i think Smith does suit you, best form of defence is attack, keep the ball up the other end of the pitch, cant concede that way etc.

Been a critic of his (and got pelters for it),  always felt the one thing missing was end product, he seems to have found one a bit tbf to him and maybe Smith's style suits him more and plays to his strengths. Managers and players can become like a match made in heaven (Bielsa and Payet) and imo Smith suits Grealish.

I think should results go as expected we may rest players to tbf, no point risking key players if the game is effectively meaningless.

6 hours ago, bobzy said:

Mix of the two.

Yes, things are much better (now) under Dean Smith - we tend to control matches far more effectively.  By that, we don't tend to just hold on to the ball at the back for the sake of it (as we did under Bruce); we now build out from the back quickly.  Without the ball, our pressing much higher up the pitch is far better.  Personally, I think we're still vulnerable defensively - as we were under the poor run of form - but rather than soak up pressure, we relieve it in attacking areas of the pitch.

But, of course, having the best player in the Championship (I remember you saying it was Hernandez... it really isn't ) fully fit and arguably in the form of his career is a huge boost.

The home game against Bristol City was a big test really.  They had beaten Sheff Utd and Boro away and WBA at home and were in great form.  Obviously, we were in great form too but then Grealish had to miss the game through illness plus we had to deal with Mings' suspension.  It could have been a morale dampener but, instead, we dominated and won easily (despite the scoreline).

So, yeah, a mix.  Grealish being back is fantastic - he's completely irreplaceable - but the team as a whole is much more confident now.  We're not unbeatable at all, but we're not anywhere near as nervy as we have been for some time either, and that's credit to Dean Smith and the coaching team IMO.

Takes time for most teams to adapt to a new style tbf and not surprised that having got a few players in you did improve.

Grealish wears Pablo pyjamas though

Wins breed confidence i suppose, once teams get a few and confidence builds then runs happen, 10wins on the spin is impressive.

4 hours ago, Shropshire Lad said:

Without wanting to turn this into another thread about our previous manager, this season, how many games do you think we won with Jack in the team before Smith came in?

It was 3 wins in 12 (pre Smith). So in answer to your question, yes, it is much better.

Take your point mate, Bruce was in a bit of a mess.

But without him this season you are still a bit of a state results wise.

Could you rest him vs us do you think? The loss of Grealish for the playoffs imo would be the difference between you being a possible winner and a beaten semi finalist.

5 hours ago, VILLAMARV said:

Yes.

Forget all the money and FFP and all the loan players and all that for a minute.

It's not just that the football is better (and it is. Loads better), or that the subs might make sense or happen before the 70th minute, or that we can keep the ball at a throw in. Something is happening here.

We hope (and after the last 2 that's all it is with most of us at the moment) that with the new owners we may have actually got someone that knows what they're doing. We have a manager that as a local lad and a fan has a lot of good faith with the fan base and breaking 100 year old records for the right reasons, in my eyes, means he'll ride out any losing runs. He sees what we see. He wants to play the game the way fans want to flock to watch.

Sure, Grealish is a freak of nature, but McGinn is the best signing we've made in years. Mings seems to have found a home at VP. He is the difference for a lot of us. El Ghazhi is starting to show what he's capable of. We supposedly have options to buy on those 2.

Bruce's tenure was a calculated gamble and it failed. It also left us in a right mess. This feels like we're building something worthwhile.

As for all the rest of it, the money, the FFP and so on. As we're learning every year down here it means the spectre of losing all your good players, so obviously we're hoping we are this years Fulham when it comes to the play-offs and we can sign 'em all up and add to what we've got. If there's any way on earth that we can keep hold of/get those 4 players up there and we don't make it up, I truly believe we'd be top 2 next year.

I cant see how you could afford El Ghazi, Mings, the Wolves lad and Abraham without promotion unless the parent clubs fancy doing you a favour tbh. Dont you have a lot of players out of contract to? Huge rebuilding job surely if you dont get promotion this season?

Its funny how a perceived style of play can placate fans despite results, fans are always more willing to give time if as you say they feel something may come of it in the future.

I like Dean Smith as a manager, not my cup of tea as a person, bit of a chip on his shoulder imo but he does get teams playing good football.

Are things really that much better under Dean Smith?

Know the football is probably better but results wise it still seems dependant on Jack Grealish being fit.

10 wins on the bounce but Grealish played in 9 didnt he?

Previous 14 in all competitions without him ,2 wins.

3 hours ago, VILLAMARV said:

http://www.motforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37453

rest players?

http://www.motforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37452

strawclutching the @Cjay dreams thread

http://www.motforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37423&start=40

Bottled it the not very happy thread

(but yeah, it's all over the place like most)

Everyone has to dream!!!!!!!

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Absolute classic Bielsa. 

Remember all those people saying this was different?

Dont blame Bielsa personally.

You let your number 10 leave and dont replace him, you let a midfielder leave (Baker was shite tbf) but another body let go and not replaced and you dont sign the winger the manager wanted in two transfer windows  (not just James but that ilk, pacey and direct the other was the dude who went to Derby). 

We gambled on Bielsa being enough.

Its not over yet but deflated isn't the word.

On 15/03/2019 at 20:28, Stevo985 said:

I imagine you could play Messi or Ronaldo in any position and they'd still look brilliant.

I bet Messi playing CentreBack for Aston Villa would still be the best performer on the park.

Probably, he'd just get bored and go score a few goals.

Can see him dropping into the Pirlo role in a few years.

https://twitter.com/BreatheMessi_/status/1106024326615183363?s=20

This is what makes Messi better imo, Ronnie swans about getting cross when things dont go his way, Messi gives his all to help his team.

Messi all day imo, Ronnie is an incredible athlete, but Messi is naturally better imo.

Bielsa on the attack on Jack Grealish yesterday: "The person who does the thing we saw yesterday expresses a series of frustrations which are not necessarily linked to football. Because the more satisfied you are with your personal life, the less you need to do this kind of act."

Next up Marcelo will turn water into wine and explain the Theory Of Evolution in Latin.

Cant understand the mentality.

What did he think was going to happen after? 

All would just be forgotten about.

Selfish idiot, didnt think of what it would do to his young family (god help his poor kids). 

Tough guy like him though, im sure he isnt moving out of the house? 

100% credit to Grealish.

Hope they throw the book (or maybe just the match report) at the idiot who hit him.

Or maybe just make him watch the goal on repeat for 8 hours a day for the next year.

Anyway, great character from Grealish, would have been easy to go into his shell after being assaulted.

Well done Jack.

Deserved point.

Far far more importantly.

Get well soon Jack

3 hours ago, magnkarl said:

The whole pitfall of your idea is that Bielsa ONLY knows how to set up to exploit through the information he's gathered spying. When he's got to set up equally like everyone else Leeds have struggled. They've lost form, and they'll very likely lose promotion because their manager is too fixated on what the opposition does rather than what his own team should be doing.

This is totally wrong imo. 

The bold bit is ridiculous.

Only 4 points outside the playoffs, beat the Blades tonight that's 1 point before the Weekends games with a midweek game coming up and another playoff contender next weekend coming to Villa park, not a bad situation really.

Imo Dean Smith was a good appointment  ( I'm a fan), plays good football, can work on a budget if necessary, is able to adapt should key players leave (did at Brentford) and is a Villa fan.

He has only had 1 window to work with, hard to fix a teams issues in 1 window.

Perhaps he is a victim of his own early success, beating Derby and Boro, getting a draw at WBA, winning the derby. Maybe some expected to fly up the table, hasnt happened, but was always unlikely without signing top class full backs and defenders wasnt it?

We are a bit nervous and edgy now, some questioning Bielsa and his selections and things. 

Start of the season though most Leeds fans would have snapped your hand off for a playoff place, heightened expectations because of early form can be a managers undoing imo.

Dean Smith is a good manager, string 2 or 3 wins together and things will look much better.

Start tonight, Wednesday and Next weekend pleaseeee