astonaidan

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

No. I don't. This is like the 4th post where I've specifically emphasised that I am NOT ignoring it.

You use it a reason why we could do better, where I use it a the winning spell as a reason it wont happen again. Anyways you ppg is not play off position either way, so your point makes no sense

6 minutes ago, tom_avfc said:

This is odd. If we take away 8 wins we don't have a play off ppg. That's not exactly surprising is it. If we take away 8 defeats we'd be on to win the league. Means about as much as your example.

Stevo has done a ppg based on actual results not taking away results which don't fit the agenda. Seems more reliable to me.

Well his ppg for game means we dont have a play off position. Im merely stating take away the 8 games as a example to his stating "even with christmas" as a reason why we would make play offs. The 8 games come at a time when a lot of teams have nothing to play for. You can live in denial about this if you want

4 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Mate, what planet are you currently on?

Haven't even read past this so you may well have come up with something profound in the rest of the post but I doubt it.

 

Bruce joined on October 12th (according to Wiki) and we're now on April 10th, that's six months and is absolutely not a full season.

 

I don't even know why I'm responding, fuel for the fire and all that.

Hence why I said pretty much brah, maybe you should read a little. How long do you think a season is mind? He wasnt in charge for 6 weeks at the start but has been for 6 much since, uh ok dude 

2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

What excuse? I haven't excused anything? 

And why would I take off the 8 wins? They happened. Just like the poor run happened. I've included everything in my point.

Do you not see the irony in (falsely) accusing me of excluding the poor run in January, and then replying with a point that excludes our good run?

Well you want to ignore that January spell, why would we no ignore the winning spell at the end of the season when a lot of teams are on the beach. You keep saying play off form, when 72 points isnt play off form. Your point has no reason at all tbh other than state we will miss the play offs next season if we get the same ppg again

Just saw us linked to Boyd, Im sure Im not alone in praying that doesnt happen. I like him as a player but hes nearly 32

12 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

So when is it ok to start bombarding Dr. Tony with tweets about Barry?!

Summer 2016, before that we tweeted Lerner 

Just now, Stevo985 said:

I don't really understand what you think you've read.

My post was a post about Steve Bruce's Points Per Game as manager of Aston Villa. That PPG included the terrible run in January.

My point was that including that terrible run, we've still produced more or less play off form under Steve Bruce, and therefore even if we don't improve AT ALL, it's probable we'll be producing play off form next season.

 

I don't know what part of that you think I've excluded the January run from.

I do understand, in the same way that you use it as a excuse you fail to comprehend we also had a 8 wins when play offs were out of reach against teams who season was finished. Take away the 8 wins and do we have play off ppg for example. No

Actually I was wrong about Newcastle they brought in 12 players last summer. So yeah that we had new signings excuse is just sad, but sure if ye want to peddle it out as a defence of a manager who clearly has failed off with ye

2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I haven't overlooked it. I've included it. I specifically said even with that run we're still more or less producing play off form.

You included it as a sidenote. You ignored the fact that we were **** when missing one, yes one player. Quality manager that he is, surely he should have been able to cope

3 minutes ago, Godders said:

Reading some of the posts on here, I fear you may not be right.

I hope that's not the case though. There's something incredibly sad about hoping the team you support fail just to be able to post "see, I told you so" on an internet forum.

I havent seen that as the case, I personally have said I hope he proves me wrong. 100%, I will happily eat humble pie if he brings us up next year, I dont even want him to win the league just promotion

4 minutes ago, bobzy said:

The constant of this "selective thinking" is change.

In the summer, we made a whole bunch of changes and struggled to hit the ground running - Di Matteo in poor form and eventually replaced as manager.  Bruce came in, the players were more used to each other, and results improved.

In January, once again we made a whole bunch of changes and struggled to hit the ground running - we had poor form under Bruce but he wasn't replaced as manager.  Once the players were more used to each other, results improved to the extent that we've won 7 and drawn 1 of our last 9 league games.

 

I understand people not liking Bruce or the way he's set out the side or whatever it may be, but you simply cannot argue against the results he has been getting for us nor the results he has gotten for poorer teams in the past.  To dismiss him right now at this stage?  That's being blinkered.  Or, rather, that's "weak reasoning".

I like Bruce, I just dont rate him as a manager. To keep him at this stage is equally weak reasoning. You ignore the fact that without Kodija we were ****. Even with that settled squad excuse we were **** without Kodija. 

Look at Newcastle they made a raft of changes to there team, they didnt do so badly 7 starters I think they brought in. But heck lets ignore that, Villa signed 9 but thats including De Laet and Tshibola who were for different reasons never got a chance in the team. So 7 for each team

3 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

I've not heard one logical reason yet why Bruce should go, think that says all there is to say. 

Really there has been many, it says more about you than people giving the logical reasons 

2 minutes ago, BOF said:

We are a work in progress.  The previous 6 seasons are a testament to that.  We are looking to improve.  We are actually improving.  We're on an upwards curve.  We are far from a finished article.  When you're looking to get somewhere, it is what you've done most recently that is most relevant, because that's a reflection of where things are heading.  In that sense I think Bruce has more than steadied the ship amnd we're now heading for promotion next season.  If you've come out the other side of a storm and all you can do is keep going on about the big waves that happened 3 months ago then I would wonder why you are ignoring what's happening now and what has been happening for the past 2 or 3 months.  Your posts suggest it is because your mind is not for changing, and that's not really a discussion.

My mind is not changing as Ive had pretty much a full season of Bruce. I like the rest of ye thought he might be a good appointment and I agree 100% he steadied the ship bu thats all I see from Bruce mid table ball with a team capable of more. To only look at the last couple of months is just not a great way of thinking. If Kodija hadnt been available say for those last 2 months we wouldnt have got more than 2 wins, how is it a sign of a good manager to have to rely on one player. You see us out the other side, I see us getting lucky for a spell, based on the fact the stats havent changed from the games, were still getting dominated and were still playing hoofball and even keeping clean sheets etc google some of the highlights and see how they easily could have gone the other way

2 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

It's not selective thinking, it's called context. I've given context to the two runs to explain why they are given different significance, you don't have to agree but it's not weak reasoning or selective thinking.

Well I think its weak reasoning and selective thinking. That christmas spell is constantly used a reason as why wed do better, when that was the one time he had to do without Kodija and failed epically 

4 minutes ago, BOF said:

If you're completely resistant to that answer to your question and you think it's "bullshit" that losing your top (only?) scorer whilst still in the process of rebuilding a squad might explain a bad run then I think you've gone beyond logic and reason and you've already reached your conclusions with no desire to discuss it.  So I think we're done

Yes I think losing one player is a weak excuse. Are you completely resistant to the fact that Bruces has failed in his one month without that player, whats funny is ye use Kodija as a reason for January failure while ignoring he pretty much bailed us out constantly on the winning streak.  I fear to think had we not had the big man for this season. I think were done, a great way to leave a conversation you know youve lost

Just now, TrentVilla said:

No that isn't what I was saying.

Out of interest who is Horgan?

Hogan, it autocorrect sorry

No you used January and Kodija as reasons, for me they are weak reasons, selective thinking. If thats not what your saying I apologize thats how I read it 

1 minute ago, TrentVilla said:

I don't think it is over looked, it certainly wasn't at the time.

I don't though think both spells are on a par in terms of the relevance to how Bruce is currently viewed.

For a start the run of good form is current and so more relevant than a run of poor form 3 months ago. Were they the other way around I doubt people would be pointing back to good form in January.

In addition you need to apply context. In January we were without Kodjia and now he is available, the difference that has made in both periods can't be ignored.

Then you have the fact that players that only arrived in January are now having an impact in a way they didn't then.

Then look at the difference in the defence between the two periods.

You can call it selective thinking if you wish, I don't think it's anything of the sort. 

Ok so Im going to use your point about Kodija, so your saying the fact one player wasnt available is reason enough for him to have a crap month. That is a weak defence. What about the results we had when he took over with the January signings. All the January run and recent run show is that Kodija has been bailing out Bruce. How did he set the team up when the big man went off against Burton. High **** balls to Horgan

2 minutes ago, BOF said:

I'd say firstly it's because January was before we had bought our completed/current squad and secondly because the African Cup of Nations took our main striker, which it won't be doing next season.  So that's 2 fairly reasonable caveats when looking at January's results with a fair eye.

But we still had a decent squad at the time, there was decent results when he took over. Why do we ignore them for example. You see there is no logic being applied in a lot of peoples post. Its bullshit using the fact we didnt have Kodija, other teams didnt have players for a spell a good manager finds a way, doesnt just check out for the month while he was gone. If anything January really shows Bruce for what he is. The fact that one player gone and he cant win

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Apropos of nothing, Bruce's PPG since he joined would give us 72 points over a full season.

That is more or less play off points. Probably a couple of points short (it was 74 points last season for example)

But that includes our horrendous run in January, so I think it's a fairly safe assumption that even if we fail to improve at all next season, we'll be looking at Playoffs as a minimum.

 

Obviously automatic is the goal, and really what should be expected next season. I don't see any reason why we won't be up there challenging for those top two places.

Why is our horrible form in January over looked, but our winning streak hyped up. He was the manager for both spells. Theres a awful amount of selective thinking

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

Read my Posts - I have considerable praise and criticism for Bruce, I think he is the - flawed, yes- best man for the job  despite him having aspects to his methods I disagree with. I couldn't see him progressing the Club a couple of months back and went against my general view of only judging after half a season.......he has quite obviously shown he CAN progress the Club since then.

However I certainly understand those who don't fancy him, aswell as those that do.

And from that position I have to say your argument that he " took over a team 10 points from the play offs and they're now 11 off" (ignoring that 10 points off after 11 games is way worse than 11 now) is either the most ignorant, or the most deliberately misleading, argument I've read in a very long time.

There is a big difference between constructive debate and ludicrous ranting, a difference I'm afraid appears totally lost on you .

Why is it way worse, its more telling where to be at the end of the season than the first few games where a team is gelling, the fact that were now further away with a settled teams shows a manager that isnt up the level needed. Your arguments have zero logic. As for your last comment, well so far Ive been called a troll, stated that I dont support the team all because I think Bruce is a terrible manager, explain how that is constructive debate. 

Just now, Stevo985 said:

If you say so

Ive clearly said so, multiple times. So far you called fans idiots and posted a image of a strawman, if theres a clearer sign of someone with nothing to add thats it buddy

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

You're right. I can't add to a conversation which is you inventing strawmen to argue against.

Your mind is made up, your agenda is set and you won't sway from it.

I quite agree I have nothing to add to that

So pretty much just confirming you have no solid argument against anything I said. Thanks for that brah

Just now, Stevo985 said:

 

This only shows you have nothing proper to add to the conversation dude, but yeah carry on

7 minutes ago, sidcow said:

11 points behind the play offs after the number of games now played is a different comparison to 10 points behind after the number of games played when he took over its a pointless comparison. 

It's funny you call people blindly following Bruce when there are good facts and figures to make them believe he is the right man.  Yes you can't see that you are blindly criticising him. 

I'm not going to get into a long series of tit for tat with you as it will be pointless. 

Hahaha ah stop buddy, we have fallen even further away from the playoffs but you still argue. You wont get into a long argument as your argument has no foundation. You would think a top manager at this level would have got us closer to the play offs after spending what he did in January instead of falling further back. Every criticism I have of Bruce has been validated by the stats. A lucky winning streak when we were out of the playoffs means nothing to me. 

Just now, theboyangel said:

It could be argued the uneducated (as you put it) repeatedly shout the loudest trying to convince themselves and others they're right. 

Oh I know Im right, Ive been called a troll for now agreeing with the sheep. So yeah I know where I stand, in December if it turns out were tearing away with the championship and playing decent football, Ill hold my hands up and 100% apologize for wanting him gone. Will the Bruce fanatics do the same if were languishing in mid table, I doubt it, more likely will still be blaming RDM and Sherwood and saying he just needs a few more quality signings