13 hours ago, TheEgo said:

Yes @Deisler123 Chose a break at the right (or wrong) time.......

World cup is on. 

23 minutes ago, ViewFromT2 said:

When a company the size of Dalian Wanda has to pull out of their part ownership of  Atletico Madrid, no chinese owned club can be over confident!

I see where you are coming from, but the reason Wanda had to retract all foreign investment is completely different. 

1 hour ago, omariqy said:

If PSG can bypass it with Neymar and Mbappe then why can't we?

If you are winning the league title literally every year and are the country's only hope in the champions league, then trust me, FFP is nothing to worry about.

It is like tax, it is always the poor people who are worrying about increasing tax. Rich people are not really affected.

Bye. You will not be missed.

2 minutes ago, TheEgo said:

http://m.companies.caixin.com/m/2018-06-07/101265565.html 

Article about Xia and Villa in the Chinese press (apparently the only article. Word is Xia or his businesses aren't big enough for it to warrant much coverage. 

It's partly pay walled though so if anyone can get past that or has access @Deisler123? Would love to read it all. However I doubt it adds anything new. Just the Chinese angle and I'm sick of reading the up press view. 

There has been very little coverage of what has happened to AVFC in the last 3 days in Chinese media. In general, Aston Villa and Tony Xia are not very news-worthy in China because very few people are interested in Championships football (or generally speaking non-top-6 Premier League clubs).

The article from that link is not worth to read because it is just a collection of information that everyone already knows.

6 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

 

I think this is really interesting (and I like organisation charts ), but could you explain how the company structure in blue is connected to the company structure in green? I see that there are two red arrows pointing from Xia to the parent and child co, but I don't get how the child co is connected to the green part.

And regarding what you said about this being the chinese companies and not the UK ones, do you know who (one of these companies?) it is that owns the UK firm Recon Football Limited (where Tony, Ho and Wyness are directors)?

Thanks!

The blue and green parts are connected simply by Xia. Xia is the chairman of 000662 (the listed company at the top). He was also the president of 000662 but he resigned in April claiming that he had too many things to do. He owns major shares in two holding companies (those two below 20%/80% line), which are major shareholder of the other two listed companies at the bottom (600186/002692).

If you mean which company directly owns the UK firm, then none I believe. But all of them are linked, just like how the blue part is linked with green part. They are all assets, parts of a group, serving for the same capitalism purpose.

42 minutes ago, TheEgo said:

You're Not Ho are you? Tony's right hand man

No. I am not. I am just a Villa fan.

42 minutes ago, TheEgo said:

Could you just confirm where en.reconig.com (Recon) sits in the diagram you provided? Is it the box above Recon Sports? If so what are in between that and the arrow pointed at Xia in the pic? Cheers bud

http://www.reconig.com/mobile/page.php?mod=detail&id=9 this is an out-dated summary of RECON group.

RECON group includes some boxes (in terms of shares), including three market-listed companies and the RECON holding company (the one above RECON sports). There are many others on the 'tree' but not shown in the 'box chart' - they are quite small in size though. Some of them are related to filming industry, which Xia wanted to get into in US market but failed eventually. 

The one in between is an investment company, which is just a structure rather than a real company.

2 minutes ago, Jareth said:

But it wasn't - I mean, you brought it up, asking what @Deisler123 knew about it - and it is not something on anyone's radar - why did you mention it?

I think he mentioned it to see if I knew something about this so I can reassure him that Samuelson or people like him is no where near Villa now for a potential take-over. I didn't know much about this unfortunately.

Ok. Thanks.

I hope anyone here could help me with this:

Where was the source of the 'unpaid tax bill' (the very first place where it was reported) and when was it released on 5th June?

* A link to the source would be nice. Thanks.

11 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I'm guessing, just like the others who have made up their minds.

You have literally purposely skipped everything @Deisler123 has said right?

Dear god.

Jim is not wrong in a literal sense. Xia is reportedly struggling in his business (but not the end of world type of struggle) and I don't think he has a lot of cash or cashable assets in hands. And it seems he will take loans to solve Villa's problem. 

But I guess the point is - this is 21st century, taking a loan is not a big issue, as long as you have assets/capital to support you. A loan of up to 400m CNY over two years is not that much compared to what he actually controls. I have never seen a successful cooperation which never taken a loan..... The question is: will he invest part of that money to Villa (this might be revealed by the information from gov.uk in a few days so let's see) and how confident he is in support Villa now (support now and look for a good sell v.s. support till promotion). 

7 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I take the fact that a loan has been arranged to provide £50m as evidence Xia has no money of his own. 

He's probably borrowed the money to buy us in the first place and has now borrowed more to keep us afloat. 

I could have done that if I could have convinced some lender there was money to be made in it. 

He's a willow the wisp and once our finances are under control we will exist in the Championship on a shoestring budget funnelling back to China whatever profits we can make to service the debts. 

It is definitely wrong to say he has no money of his own. His business model is not conventional where people buy raw materials and make stuff and sell. His company is more like a holding company, relying on the success of its investment. 

He and his companies have decent shares on the stock market. It is probably true that he does not have a lot of cash.

8 minutes ago, TheEgo said:

Got you now. The owners names are unclear. So could even be Xia if we're keeping a positive mindset? (personally doubt, but would be good. 

1

I don't know. But it was reported that Xia actually controls Softto.

9 minutes ago, TheEgo said:

Are only Chinese nationals allowed to start a company in China? Have you heard of Socfin? This is the company that highlighted villa to Xia and we're to be on our board but allegedly failed their directors and owners test and were removed from the companies filings as directors. Is it possible they could be in and amongst that parent company? Hence the question about foreign nationals setting up businesses in China. I'm guessing not? UK press and fans talked of Gov involvement when we first heard about the deal. I think it's fair to assume this is BS. 

1

In China, there are three types of companies. Companies owned by Chinese nationals, those owned by foreigners and those co-owned. In China, if you are a foreigner, you cannot create a child-company in China. And for those co-owned companies, Chinese side has to be a company, not a person. These differences are mainly for legislation and accounting purpose. It used to be the case (back in 80s/early 90s) that a company with foreign investment could have tax relief (to promote foreign investment).

No, I have not heard of Socfin before. I don't know anything about this so cannot comment on this.

2 minutes ago, TheEgo said:

I thought Teamax was sold? I'm sure it was reported he and mentioned by xia that he got 200m or so from the sale?

2

Basically, Xia sold his company to Softto who was then a listed company, with a super high value. Then Xia controlled Softto and changed its name to Teamax. This effectively makes his company as a listed company on the stock market. This is a bit similar to the concept of 'reverse merger', in comparison to the concept of IPO.

16 minutes ago, TheEgo said:

Given my lack of Chinese. Is the Chinese writing at the very top names of individuals? I will look properly when at my pc as I can translate etc 

 

The top two rows are companies names. Some boxes in the middle and at the bottom are names of rich individuals. 

9 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

Thanks a lot for your posts Deisler, I appreciate them a lot.

One thing I find really interesting with this are the "owners" of the parent company, you say they are a lot of holding companies. Is it in any way possible to get information about who owns these holding companies? As I understand it, it's the owner of these companies that really owns us. As Tony is the chairman of the parent company, I guess Tony either owns these companies, or has enough influence on them to be elected chairman? It would be very interesting to know though if someone else also partly owns us.

Sure. My pleasure. 

Among all owners, only the first tone: 索芙特科技: Softto, is actually a conventional company. It is like P&G, doing chemical stuff for daily use. All other owners are holding companies, and it is unclear who own them.

17 minutes ago, TheEgo said:

Thank you so much @deisler123 this really helps me get a sense of the structure, I've been trying but translating stuff doesn't really work when seeing a diagram and hierarchy. So xia has shares in the parent company? (what's the English name? But not many? Do you know any of the other owners? (we were lead to believe that xia owned the majority holding in the parent company.

2

If you look at the picture I posted, the parent company (Teamax, http://www.txgis.net/ ) is the box near the word 'parent co' to its right. All boxes above it are its owners, and the numbers indicate their shares.

2 minutes ago, TheEgo said:

As for loan that's been approved. I don't get how it's still not under the restrictions of taking cash OUT of China. Why does sterling circumvent that rule HOW have have they been able to even get a sterling loan IN China? I couldn't seek approval to get a loan in Chinese currency in the UK surely? Doesn't make sense to me. I need to check the stock exchange. 

If Xia really wants to send money to UK for his business, he can. It needs approval and it is not straightforward, but it can be done. The currency policy is just a control method, it is not a shut door.

The issue seems to be his cash flow as far as I can tell, which is caused by his business difficulty since early 2017. He is no where near bankruptcy from the stock market data, he is still rich. But he had lost a lot in last 12 months and his business model means that he has not much cash in his hands now. 

1 hour ago, Fight Like Lions said:

It’s a £50m loan in sterling so no issue with transferring from China, the money is already in the right currency

 

This is not true. I converted the loan in GBP to make things easier. But the loan will be in CNY.

14 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

so apparently you have to spend about 300 million before you hit the radar of the Chinese Government?

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tony-xia-aston-villa-chinese-14749006

I am not sure what that Professor was referring to. Was he saying that a company in China can transfer 300 million US dollars freely to overseas countries before the currency policy comes into play?

No way.

A lot of companies in China even use their employees' annual allowance (up to 50k US dollars per year) to exchange and transfer foreign currency.