Deisler123
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Posts posted by Deisler123
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Just two days since the take over was announced, the posts on one of the most popular chinese online chatting forum about Aston Villa has increased from 5 a day to 50,000 a day.
See this: http://tieba.baidu.com/f?ie=utf-8&kw=%E9%98%BF%E6%96%AF%E9%A1%BF%E7%BB%B4%E6%8B%89&fr=search
In comparison to Man Utd sub forum where posts are normally around 500,000 to 1.5 mil a day. http://tieba.baidu.com/f?ie=utf-8&kw=%E6%9B%BC%E8%81%94
The attention to Villa and the new owner is certainly increasing in China. This is quite encouranging for Xia. I think this may add to his confidence of this take over.
To fulfill Xia's may-be ambition of making Villa the most famous club in China, he clearly has a lot to work on.
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9 minutes ago, snowychap said:
As far as I'm concerned, and this is what I read from Mike's post, it's about possible Chinese government (or Chinese state or CCP, however one may want to term it) backing not about nationality or where someone is from.
To be fair, even if it's just someone wanting to curry favour with the bods at the top of the CCP then it makes me incredibly uncomfortable at best.
Alright then. Let's just stop here. I guess it is no use to continue conversation on such a controversial topic.
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9 minutes ago, Rodders said:
it's hardly difficult. Someone would find having an association connected with corruption, and dodgy human rights ( to put it kindly ) to be a bad thing. Not everyone goes " **** everyone else, let's just get rich regardless of the endorsements and consequences of deals like this may have for legitimising ( possible ) crooks. Image laundering ala other billionaire barons its not everyone's cup of tea, and it's a bit depressing you think that it's bizarre some people think there are more important things than a **** football club.
I understand the concern that people may have about someone from China buying the club they like.
I was questioning the logic behind the cold-war thinking - just some one from China does not mean he is evil, stalin-like, corrupted with dodgy human rights. You are mixing things up, which is fundamentally wrong when you make judgement on someone.
This logic is pathetic - so if for what ever reason someone was sent to the jail, his/her kids will be thought to do the same crime years later? This is correct in terms of human rights you are telling me?
Sure, there is some uncertainty with this take over. But using China as a 'one-party dictatorship with bad human rights record' is NOT an evidence by a light year to how bad the new owner can possibly be.
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3 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:
Why is d unlikely? To me it's the only likely scenario.
I think the d is as likely as c, at least.
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1 minute ago, mjmooney said:
It's relevant to me.
I am sorry - how is China being ' a one-party dictatorship with an apalling human rights record' relevant to you or your beloved club?
Enlighten me please.
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2 minutes ago, mjmooney said:Chinese government backing makes it better? Not in my opinion. Somebody upthread said I should like this because I'm "a red". Actually, I'm a democratic socialist - Old Labour, 1945 style. China is a one-party dictatorship with an apalling human rights record, playing the capitalist west at their own game - and winning.
For those who say the British and US governments aren't squeaky clean either, I agree - and I don't want them controlling AVFC any more than the Beijing lot.
You may be surprised to know I actually liked Randy Lerner. Sadly, he was an incompetent, but I think his motives were good. Sure, he would have liked to make money out of Villa, but that wasn't his main aim. Tony Xia and his mystery backers, I don't know about, but all the talk seems to be about property acquisitions, portfolios, msg and 'health products'. Aston Villa will be just another product, possibly just a back door to some state backed wheeler dealing in Birmingham property. I guess you could say (several on here have) "Who cares, if Villa get a shitload of cash?" Well, I do, for one.
If we must have an overseas owner (and I still hate that word), I would prefer another Lerner-type - just one with a few more brain cells. Dr. Xia may have those brain cells (although his football related quotes so far make me wonder) - I'm just concerned about what he's going to do with them. And who may be pulling his strings.
Oh COME ON. 'China is a one-party dictatorship with an apalling human rights record' , How on earth is that relevant to the take over? Just someone from a country that 'is claimed (by who? BBC? or CNN? or you have been to China to see those horrible human right record?) to' have human right record - so you are not happy about Mr Xia's nationality then?
You may not like the new owner; he might be a horrible owner for Villa
BUT
How in hell is that relevant to which country he comes from?
Now we are in 21 century, how pathetic is it that someone is still thinking in a cold-war way?
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2 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:
Would be great if you could amplify on this (if possible). I don't mean this in a bad way, more out of intrigue. as you're bringing a lot of good info to the table.
sure. I will collect some information and translate here. I have to say all of those are rumours - he has not been convicted to any crime/fraud activities afaik.
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3 minutes ago, Swerbs said:
Please provide sources?
Yes, later today when I find time to translate a bit more. I dont really want to expose those very negative things you know - people may get really upset about these.
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1 minute ago, Gary Thomas said:
I agree with this. There also seem to be a lot of private companies (not listed) that we really know nothing about. For example, Hollis on the OS said, "If you look at Tony Xia's business career in China, he has been instrumental in the regeneration and the building of over 60 of the new cities and relocating 500 million people into the urban areas." Well that sounds like a pretty lucrative business but it is probably not listed so the FT or anyone else has no information about it - hopefully Hollis does.
In China there is little transparency in business - because all companies more or less have involvement of government one way or another. So there is no way you can know a value of a company, unless they want you to know.
But considering he has got some bad reputation before in China about being fraud (people talked about it), it is 50-50 chance now.
Better to be positive on this - until you see the negativity - i guess.
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The key thing, in my opinion, is whether or not he has got state-money backing him up.
From all the evidence I've seen, it is a 50-50 chance.
As a Chinese, I have seen the recent development in Chinese football league, and I can tell you this:
If he is all by himself in this take over - i will be very cautiously pessimistic on this.
If he is backed up by state money - i am very optimistic.
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1 minute ago, sexbelowsound said:
2 More than needed surely?
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Just now, sexbelowsound said:
There is a lot of "Oh My Fuckings Gods" in that translation!
Potty mouths.
ye sorry. some of the original comments used strong words, mainly to express their surprise, nothing to do with the club or this take over. I just followed and use that word (only two though) to save my translation time. I will edit it out
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My translation will use very plain English - as it saves me time from polishing it and you guys should be able to understand my translation.
Source: http://bbs.hupu.com/16282834.html (one of the most popular football forums in China)
Post title: Rui Kang (Chinese name of Recon) will buy Villa, Di Matteo will be in charge, what do you guys think?
Content: the news on Sky news
Comments:
1. lotus is a sponsor, lotus is gonna be the name of the stadium, Buddha (is the nickname of Di Matteo in Chinese because he looks like Buddha) is the manager. OMG this club will follow Buddhism. LOL (Lotus is an important sign of Chinese Buddhism - Deisler's comment)
2. OMG Rui Kang. Can I say Aston Villa is going to have bad luck? Government background? Are you kidding? (it means it is fraud, there is no government background - Deisler's comment)
3. Villa has 7 tiltes, 1 CL title. Talking about the history, Chelsea is no better than them. This is a good buy at the low cost. If they can follow what Leicester has done, not difficult to get back to PL.
4. I am sorry Rui Kang has nothing to do with Chinese government.
5. Rui Kang only nominated the brother of the president as a chairman member of the company. They have nothing to do with the government. You guys have no idea who he is. His 'Youngest harvard professorship' was questioned and found fraud. You can also check some information about his ex-wife.
6. oh, him - I know him - when he was in the university in China, he stayed in Girls' apartment more than 1 year (which means he lives with his girlfriend(s) in her place, which is very uncommon as most girls live in the same room in university apartment - Deisler's comment)
7. what company? never heard of it (Deisler's comment - the company is little known to Chinese)
8. Anyone can introduce a little about the company? Making health product - does that mean fake medicine?
9. I will wait for the release of Football Manager 2017 then.
10. This is clearly a collaboration between governments - good luck to Villa (Deisler's comment - a lot of people think Prince William and David Cameron are both fans of Villa.)
11. You guys are so naive. Government background does not necessarily mean state business. When Gilli (a car manufacturer in China) bough Volvo, it was bought by a private company. But even my dog knows it was government's money.
12. Not a very wealthy company - Villa should not dream to become City after this take over.
13. Mr Xia is an interesting person. very likely he is not as good as what he claimed to be. It is very likely he uses this take over to take political advantage (Deisler very much agrees on this - this is what every rich people do now in China - but it is not necessarily a bad thing for Villa - he got a motivation to make villa successful before he can get any political advantage)
14. Villa has much stronger history than Chelsea, that is for sure.
15. Rui Kang. Never heard of it. Are they rich enough to play?
16. Guys, get ready of a Villa's China summer trip soon.
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There has been tons of posts in China's biggest football forum about the take over of Villa. I am surprised that a lot of fans there are not convinced by the owner (due to his past track record in China, which is also new to me). I will try to translate some neutral comments so it might give you guys some ideas of what Chinese people think about him and his company.
These comments *might* be truer than what is reported on google.
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7 minutes ago, Phumfeinz said:
I assume that Dr. Xia meant that if we finish the season below 6th then he'll look at firing the manager, and not that he'll fire the manager during the season if at any time we drop below 6th.
I hope that's what he meant.
I checked my original translation and I think my translation is correct. He clearly said, ''anytime during the season....sack the manager anytime... is a clause in the contract...''
But I think it is not necessary a bad thing - the new owner just wanted to express his ambition and this is a part of it.
Surely no one will believe he will sack the manager ANYTIME he wants - he is not stupid...
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'we have clauses in the contract with manager. anytime the club is not within the first 6 positions of the league, we can sack him'
I got to say I laughed there lol..... So watch out the new manager, if you lose the first match, you are sacked!!!!
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hmm i'd like to share an interview that Xia had with Xinhua net (like BBC in China). The interview is done in Chinese. I will try to translate as much as I can here (my first language is Chinese but it is always difficult to translate from Chinese to English, much easier another way around lol):
'We did not target only on Villa'
'we signed the deal a long time ago, when I was there watching a game of villa. it was some approval process (this is vague in Chinese but I try to be accurate) involved so we waited till yesterday to announce this'
'we paid 75mil pounds as the first installment. Once the club back to PL, another 40M will be paid. for sure there will other things involved'
'we will decide on the managerial choice in 2 weeks. they have their opinion on manager and players (which mean who to buy)'
'we have 6 managers to choose from, including Di Mateo and Perrson. We know reduce the number to three. the manager has to have experience with Championship, but will need to have european leagues ambition and experience'
'we have clauses in the contract with manager. anytime the club is not within the first 6 positions of the league, we can sack him'
'we will recommend a few talents chinese youth players to the club, but the coach has final decision. We will not just send them to the club '
'my plan is to take Villa back to PL as soon as possible', he then pointed the shirt that the journalist wears (Arsenal), 'like this club, I want to see my club to stay in Champions league every season'.
'in 8-10 years i want Villa back to its best time - to become one of the best clubs in europe'
'I beleive in Villa- they have the best fan base - if we exploit it well - it will form the base of the best club of the world (he didnt use 'one of the best' in this sentence)'
PS: Sorry for not including the source reference. Didnt think it was necessary as it was in Chinese.
Find it here: http://news.xinhuanet.com/sports/2016-05/19/c_128998839.htm
Note: I only translated what Xia has said.
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3 minutes ago, El-Reacho said:
Pretty sure the Championship would be the same as the PL where the TV broadcast rights are collective, so one team can't go and negotiate a TV deal for themselves elsewhere.
Yes, you are right. But the TV channels in China will buy any leagues that has Chinese players in the first team. Dutch league this year for example (Vitesse got 1 Chinese youth player). It is possible if Villa get 1 Chinese player next season, which is quite unlikely due to work permit. Other than that, no it is not gonna happen
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No, there is no way the national channel in China (CCTV) will pay to broadcast Championships, unless there is 1-2 Chinese players playing there, which may not happen next season.
The number of people watching football games is, for example a normal PL game, about 5-15mil. Between Man Utd and Arsenal, could be 40-50mil. So the market is huge which is good for Villa in a long run if the market potential can be exploited.
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Hi I am a chinese living in UK for many years and became interested in the recent taking over - want to join the forum for some discussion.
TBH not a villa fan yet, but dont really have any team to support at the moment so why not? Hope it is fine?
The 2016 Takeover Thread
in Villa Talk
Posted · Edited by Deisler123
the benefit is huge. And I am only talkin about direct benefit from transfer fee.
For example, Athletico Madrid got a Chinese player 4 years ago, who played in their youth team then in B team. He is nowhere close to the 1st team.
Last year, he was bought by Guangzhou Evergrande on a transfer fee of 5 mil euros.
I can go on but my point is, a direct benefit if there are youth players (with ok quality) from china is, they can be sold back to China with 10-100 times more transfer fee than what they are worth.
This is simply because China super league only allows 3 foreign and 1 Asian players to play on pitch.
Last year, the most expensive domestic player transfer fee was something like 10 mil pounds in China. I highly doubt he can play in the 1st team of any club in the championships.