nazvfc

 

 

Hopefully that is the last we'll see of Lambert. Worst manager I have seen down the club.

Not been a fan long then?? 

 

You disagree? 

 

25 years I can remember. Can't quite remember McNeil but Lambert has even been worse than Venglos

 

I do - been a villa fan more than twice as long - so have seen worse (managers and players). Lambert is one in a line we have had with two chairmen who cut costs - one did at least put his on money into the club and one who just took money out. 

Hopefully that is the last we'll see of Lambert. Worst manager I have seen down the club.

Not been a fan long then?? 

great days.i am right in remembering we came up with united in 75?

Yes - we did - last game that season against Sunderland at VP - thousands locked outside. Inside packed like sardines. Little's great goal a curler from outside the box. We got just as many (if not more) fans than Utd in those days.

Yeah briney mate - that was a game - over 48,000 for a Div 3 game - we broke attendance records where ever we went - remember the Gillingham manager (was it Dave Peach) say they wouldn't mind playing and losing to Villa each week - because we broke their attendance record!. Good days - fond memories. We were a family - fans and players and club.

 

 

 

 

So apparently we would have got 5-8 points more (at least) if Benteke hadn't got injured.

 

That word again "if"

 

Benteke played most of last season and we were rubbish for most of that one too.

 

Benteke managed 26 league games this season. But in how many were he fully fit?

 

Who knows in how many games was he fully fit but it would be remiss of any manager to play a player for so long if not fully fit and risk a lengthier and more debilitating injury.

 

But Benteke himself said HE passed himself fit and wanted to play - what should Lambert have done - said he couldn't play - imaging the shit he'd of got if that had come out - fit player not played by said manager. Sometimes you cannot phsyically see if an injury has healed - if the players says himslef he i fit what do you do - call him a liar? 

 

Just saying.

 

Manage him. Monitor his play. even us as fans could see he wasn't completely fit!

 

He did - as soon as it was noticed he was back in treatment - didn't he go to Belgium for a while? I seem to remember him come back in - then back out again after it became obvious he was not fit. Then he came back and scored a few goals then had that unfortunate achilles injury.

 

 

So apparently we would have got 5-8 points more (at least) if Benteke hadn't got injured.

 

That word again "if"

 

Benteke played most of last season and we were rubbish for most of that one too.

 

Benteke managed 26 league games this season. But in how many were he fully fit?

 

Who knows in how many games was he fully fit but it would be remiss of any manager to play a player for so long if not fully fit and risk a lengthier and more debilitating injury.

 

But Benteke himself said HE passed himself fit and wanted to play - what should Lambert have done - said he couldn't play - imaging the shit he'd of got if that had come out - fit player not played by said manager. Sometimes you cannot phsyically see if an injury has healed - if the players says himslef he i fit what do you do - call him a liar? 

Just saying.

Just to add - I turned up along with the thousands (looked like it) when we the fans were asked to help the club because we were broke - the fan cleaned the ground - brought the paint etc and re-furbished the ground - at that time it was true - Villa fans would turn up in their thousands to watch the shirts dry on the washing line - but in this case it was watching the claret and blue paint dry.

For me this post sums up what it is to be a Villa fan. I am tired of all the ITK shit!

I have supported the Villa for 54 years and my proudest moment was standing on the Holte against Preston North End in November 1968 with just over 13,000 other Villa fans. We lost 0-1, went to the bottom of div 2 and were devastated beyond belief but I and 13,000+ other diehards never ever thought of turning away.

However in this Internet age, the above counts for **** all, long live the software!

Yes Mike - I was there too 10 years old with my elder brother - and there at the civic hall for the 'revolution'. The 'crisis' today pales into comparison - we were at our lowest ebb, but we rose like a phoenix. I was proud to have been there through Div3 and then through to the Super Cup.

 

Dermot ‏@dermotkeller  19m

Wow very interesting exclusive news from KNX. Larry Ellison is set to become owner of a new Premier League team. #avfc #Premier League #thfc #takeover #Premier League

 

Well Liecester,Burnley, and one of the play-off teams are a 'new premier league' club. Villa are an established club!

It will be interesting to see the reactions if we finish 16th next season with a new owner and manager

Probably blame Lerner and Lambert (kidding!!!)

 

 

 

So now it's the fans fault that they bought in a vision that turned out to be shit? The fans are the least of Villa's problems and they've proved it in the last 2 years.

How did ANYONE know that the vision was going to turn out shit? Did you? Did I? did the thousands of others? but seems NOW they did (but not at the time) and I did NOT say it's all the fans fault at all did I? I said the fans were all for the vision but not now where have I blamed the fans? I can say that SOME fans who booed everytime one of the young players made a mistake and got on their backs didn't make things easy for them either. I just mentioned that the fans were all for it then and now in hindsight they are not. This is down to Lambert and the players and Lerner. The fans bought into the vision (it was their choice) and now have turned away(again their choice) - what does that say about SOME fans.

I have no problem with fans - no matter what point of view they hold.

Of course no one knew it'd turn out like that. Not sure what your point is. Of course Lambert will be judged based on hindsight, just as everyone else. Fans pay their money and will keep doing this regardless. Did Man U fans know Moyes would turn out to be totally out of sync? No, of course not. With hindsight, did he deserve the sack? Most probably yes.

Beat me to it BG, My thoughts excactly. Fans always will always buy into a vision if it appears that it will progress a club to a brighter future. Sometimes it works and sometimes not. That being said you cant blindly continue following something if you feel its not working.

 

My initial response was to someone saying we had 2 years of shit under Lambert and my retort was that the first year  was (to me) a year where a change in direction (young and hungry) meant that there would be no instant results and should not be used as a stick to beat him with (again for me and I am not talking for other fans) . First year was in many ways a true transition (just as 1968 was a true transition - from near bankruptcy).

First year I did not expect us to pull up trees and no-one knew we would struggle as we did until late in the season (if they did then they should be manager and stuff Lambert). 

The second year I agree I hoped for more. So to ME it was 1 year that I judge Lambert on - the first year I expected nothing of note (as I did way back in 68 - where I hoped we would rise up again - and I didn't expect it instantly).

So for me the this last year/season has been a disappointment and I hope things improve be it with or without Lambert and with or without Lerner. Both are culpable to our predicament.

Personally (and for me only) I feel that we may have come close to relegation and not for the want of trying - Lerner has not relegated us,  so UPTO NOW has not been as bad as Ellis.

Under the previous Chairman - he ultimately took the League Winners and European Champions DOWN with his policies (which were similar in cutting the wage bill) in less time than Lerner has been in charge.

So if/until -( here's that word again) Lerner/Lambert takes us down - then in my eyes he  Lerner, is better than  Ellis, has no ego does not take the credit when things go well and blame all and sundry if things go wrong  unlike someone we all know. And importantly has never had anything to do with SHA  

And Lambert is better than McNeil/Turner (to name just two) 

Addendum - the last bit should probably be in the Lerner thread but I feel both are culpable not just Lambert in the current position we are in.

Then again I could be waffling (as many of you think I am  )

 

 

Long ball, short ball, passing non passing ............but for me his biggest problem has been his inability to construct a defence that is anything approaching 'tight'  - which I believe is the basis for any team - you can't build on a leaky defence.

But Smetrov - would this be the case if Okore had been fit?? the signs were good - the partnership with Vlaar looked good - Baker and Clarke would have been backups. Just saying that had we had the proper partnership we MAY not have leaked goals and turned losses to draws and draws to wins - who's to say???

 

 

I agree Okore was a massive loss. But Vlaar aside most of the defenders signed in 2 seasons have looked sub standard.

 

I think 2 seasons is time enough to make a defence hard to penetrate - I mean look at the last few games - we are regularly conceding 4 goals. In his first season he stood by Clark with no evidence that he was up to the job - although you mention Okore - he is still a raw 21 year old ....Lambert should have got some more experience @ CB - it is this decision that I believe will cost him his job

 

With this I agree - he should have got some experienced and I don't mean 30 somethings but in the mid-late 20's. And yes it probably has cost him his job

So now it's the fans fault that they bought in a vision that turned out to be shit? The fans are the least of Villa's problems and they've proved it in the last 2 years. 

How did ANYONE know that the vision was going to turn out shit? Did you? Did I? did the thousands of others? but seems NOW they did (but not at the time) and I did NOT say it's all the fans fault at all did I? I said the fans were all for the vision but not now where have I blamed the fans? I can say that SOME fans who booed everytime one of the young players made a mistake and got on their backs didn't make things easy for them either.  I just mentioned that the fans were all for it then and now in hindsight they are not. This is down to Lambert and the players and Lerner. The fans bought into the vision (it was their choice) and now have turned away(again their choice)  - what does that say about SOME fans.

I have no problem with fans - no matter what point of view they hold. 

How do you know that the puns aren't a directive handed down by VT Top Brass to muddy the waters?

You meant Trent??? (think about it!) - I'll get me coat!

Jeebus - we're now choc-a-block with puns!!!

 

 

 

Get rid was maybe incorrect  - but he brought in quite a few to replace those deemed not good enough (by him and by the multitude of experts on the forums). So point still stands - he brought in and had to bed quite a few players - so if people demanded instant success then they would and should have been disappointed. There was a change from old overpaid to young and hungry and with an honour of playing and wearing the claret n blue.

 

 

So as I said - first year I (personally) did not expect instant success - second I hoped (not demanded) for an improvement. There may not have been but I won't hold it against him - never did against other worse managers (Turner, McNeil et all) and some worse players

 

 

Perhaps he shouldn't have brought so many until he'd managed to get rid of the ones he didn't fancy. That's why the wage bill has actually been increasing under Lambert, instead of going down. 

 

Also, if you suggest he has replaced players deemed not good enough - players that mcLeish managed to survive with - and replaced them with supposedly better ones, then why hasn't he managed to do better than what McLeish did with those deemed not good enough? Maybe Lambert should have been able to get something out of these players he couldn't get rid of while their wages were still being paid by the club.

 

 

McLeish had a team that was settled and been together for more than a few months. I didn't see many complaining about bringing in the players Lambert did at the time - I see everyone is doing so now - hindsight again. McLeish did not bring in young players to add to the team - he brought in highly paid players and experienced and struggled. Different scenario - McLeish had experienced players in the premier league and JUST managed to survive. A little different to Lambert surely. 

 

Lambert had the same experienced players McLeish did, chose not to / or wasn't able to get anything out of them, kept paying their wages, brought new players with wages on top of those - and JUST managed to survive. 

 

Yea, slightly different.

 

Funny how the fans were all for it at that time and agreed with his policy as fans also stated at the time those experienced players just survived and deemed not good enough. Now it seems the fans were wrong just as much as Lambert. How many complained at the time of Lowton, Bennett, Benteke, Westwood and Delph (not a Lambert signing but given a new lease of life) - not many (apart from those who wrote them off even before they had kicked a ball).

Now in hindsight seems everyone was right and the manager wrong. Many complained that Warnock was not good enough nor Dunne or Collins etc and it was good to have young and hungry players.

I won't cry if Lambert and Lerner go nor will I cry if they don't. 

 

Get rid was maybe incorrect  - but he brought in quite a few to replace those deemed not good enough (by him and by the multitude of experts on the forums). So point still stands - he brought in and had to bed quite a few players - so if people demanded instant success then they would and should have been disappointed. There was a change from old overpaid to young and hungry and with an honour of playing and wearing the claret n blue.

 

 

So as I said - first year I (personally) did not expect instant success - second I hoped (not demanded) for an improvement. There may not have been but I won't hold it against him - never did against other worse managers (Turner, McNeil et all) and some worse players

 

 

Perhaps he shouldn't have brought so many until he'd managed to get rid of the ones he didn't fancy. That's why the wage bill has actually been increasing under Lambert, instead of going down. 

 

Also, if you suggest he has replaced players deemed not good enough - players that mcLeish managed to survive with - and replaced them with supposedly better ones, then why hasn't he managed to do better than what McLeish did with those deemed not good enough? Maybe Lambert should have been able to get something out of these players he couldn't get rid of while their wages were still being paid by the club.

 

 

McLeish had a team that was settled and been together for more than a few months. I didn't see many complaining about bringing in the players Lambert did at the time - I see everyone is doing so now - hindsight again. McLeish did not bring in young players to add to the team - he brought in highly paid players and experienced and struggled. Different scenario - McLeish had experienced players in the premier league and JUST managed to survive. A little different to Lambert surely. 

 

What's the news?

 

Bournemouth's curry houses suck, and its gymnasiums are creepy places populated by murderers. People who live in Sandbanks are all yacht-owners incapable of talking except to big themselves up. Think that's a fair precis. 

 

 

 

You are right - the TV series 6ft Under was based on his book/business. He did indeed write the report during the VFC days - like him or not - don't question his love for Villa - like we shouldn't question each and everyone of us' love for the Villa (or are some better than he is???) (NOT aimed at you Smetrov mate)!

 

 

Are you sure about that? A glance at Wikipedia mentions many other possible ways the series was thought of, but certainly not this one. Couldn't find any other Google results either, and let's face it, it hardly seems likely does it?

 

I think I am - he told us when we were part of VFC. I have no idea if true - but I do remember this being mentioned when we all met in London with Carl Chinn and the rest of the VFC 'brigade' and at the first meeting at the Leisure centre.

 

 

I'm saying he's had two seasons to do his stuff and if at the end of that all we can say is "if", he doesn't have what it takes to turn the team's performances. 

 

It may be unfair on him but management is about making change happen and getting success and he hasn't really achieved hardly any of that so he's had his chance and blown it.

 

(IMO, of course!)

First year he had to get rid and bring in a myriad of players (some good some not so) so first year you can't hold that against him (or can you if you expect INSTANT results) - 2nd year - you may have a point. Any manager (no matter how good) would struggle having to replace a team with new players on limited funds. 

 

I for one won't have this two seasons stuff - 2nd season yes but not first!

 

 

Really? Which players did he get rid of in his first season?

 

Get rid was maybe incorrect  - but he brought in quite a few to replace those deemed not good enough (by him and by the multitude of experts on the forums). So point still stands - he brought in and had to bed quite a few players - so if people demanded instant success then they would and should have been disappointed. There was a change from old overpaid to young and hungry and with an honour of playing and wearing the claret n blue.

So as I said - first year I (personally) did not expect instant success - second I hoped (not demanded) for an improvement. There may not have been but I won't hold it against him - never did against other worse managers (Turner, McNeil et all) and some worse players

I'm saying he's had two seasons to do his stuff and if at the end of that all we can say is "if", he doesn't have what it takes to turn the team's performances. 

 

It may be unfair on him but management is about making change happen and getting success and he hasn't really achieved hardly any of that so he's had his chance and blown it.

 

(IMO, of course!)

First year he had to get rid and bring in a myriad of players (some good some not so) so first year you can't hold that against him (or can you if you expect INSTANT results) - 2nd year - you may have a point. Any manager (no matter how good) would struggle having to replace a team with new players on limited funds. 

I for one won't have this two seasons stuff - 2nd season yes but not first!

"If".

 

The most used word in discussion of Paul Lambert's regime here.

 

Sadly for him, I think we need someone who can manage a bit more than might-have-beens.

True - but are you saying that it's not possible or are you saying no matter the players - it's all the managers fault??? 

Long ball, short ball, passing non passing ............but for me his biggest problem has been his inability to construct a defence that is anything approaching 'tight'  - which I believe is the basis for any team - you can't build on a leaky defence.

But Smetrov - would this be the case if Okore had been fit?? the signs were good - the partnership with Vlaar looked good - Baker and Clarke would have been backups. Just saying that had we had the proper partnership we MAY not have leaked goals and turned losses to draws and draws to wins - who's to say???

 

 

 

Howard Hodgson is a doosh. His location is down as sandbanks, poole. Having lived in Bournemouth and walked around sandbanks a few times, there are varying sized plots of land there and quite a few which you coul dbarely say were Sandbanks. He is a wannabee, and as my 2 year old would say, a big head.

 

Jesus - He was a local businessman and until very recently took a seat in the villa directors boxes. I can't bevel you can dis all that because he lives in Bournemouth ?

I think you need to check your facts HH junior has lived in the Bournemouth area for years. His father who is just as much a self publicist as his son splits his time between the UK and Malta but does not live in the Midlands. Both are Villa fans but don't know neatly as much as they like to pretend they do.

 

 

Happy to be wrong on this.

 

But I thought at least one of them made his millions in the funeral businesses around Birmingham - and I thought he was the one who wrote the original Hodgson report. ?

 

You are right - the TV series 6ft Under was based on his book/business. He did indeed write the report during the VFC days - like him or not - don't question his love for Villa - like we shouldn't question each and everyone of us' love for the Villa (or are some better than he is???) (NOT aimed at you Smetrov mate)!

 

 

 

Genuinely think some of you are going to be in for a real shock if you think that there is actually a manager out there that could do much better than Lambert has given the injuries and suffocating restraints he has had to work under.

Steve Bruce and Mark Hughes say hi !

Both have done better and spent much less (Bruce got Hull promoted and safe in the Premier League and spent £32M in two years compared to £40M spent by lambert in the same period, Hughes signed 7 players and spent £7M at Stoke in his first season)

points total isn't that much different tbf

You've kind of missed the point, Bruce spent less and took a team from the championship into the premier league and they finished above us.

Hughes spent £7M on 7 players, completely changed Stokes style of play and finished comfortably above us.

The original poster was suggesting that financial constraints had held Lambett back and that no manager could have done better given the circumstances, these two managers archived considerably more in tougher circumstances.

 

So did Lambert with Norwich before he joined us - so what's your point ? Bruce did it ONCE (didn't do it with SHA when he brought them from the Championship). 

Ah, the old "luck" argument. Just remember that it works both ways.

True - how many times (and before anyone makes a sarcastic comment about the season or two) have we dominated or played really well and the other team grabs a late goal or get lucky - but let's forget that shall we - it's oh so simple - when we do it both ways (play well and lose or play crap and win) it's Villa are  lucky (when win)  and shit (when lose) - manager is this that and the other - couldn't beat so and so cos in their eyes that team are crap and we should be beating them - football DOES NOT work that way - never has done - never will. But then I actually don't play FM or pretend at being a qualified professional coach who knows football and how easy it is to beat 'smaller' teams.

Just my opinion - blast away if you wish cos I know **** all about football.