Paul33

5 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I would be interested to hear how you think we could, at scale, 'reduce demand' for healthcare.

I don't have the magic answer but moving the use of Pharmacists, Walk In Centres, GPs, #111 from advisory towards compulsory would be a massive move. I heard on Newsnight last week something about 95% of A&E walk-ins came from a crazy small number (can't recall exactly) of the same people.

I make use of Pharmacy diagnosis and in more worrying cases I phone 111 and act on their advice ..... I haven't walked into A&E (other than with my daughter) since my footballing days !

3 minutes ago, bickster said:

I just object to people peddling nonsense

Peddling nonsense presumably being anything you disagree with ? The unemployment record may be something you dislike because it challenges your own bias but it is fact not nonsense and a five minute Google session will back that !

At the end of the day, I'm sitting here smiling with beer in hand ..... I don't get you pseudo-politicians taking it all so seriously. Whatever party is in power will always do some things well and screw up with others so making a big issue of the failings and seeing that as justifying a vote for the others is plain madness ..... unless you believe the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence and it never is !

10 minutes ago, bickster said:

I really don't think a Labour government of a century ago is very relevant to today do you. In fact there really is only 1 period of Labour Government that is of relevance to the modern world and thats 1997 - 2010

Applause for your stubborn loyalty ! As I said above, party loyalists will never back down ...... which is why these debates can never end and are pointless ! 

8 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Is the answer "they didn't"?

Okay ...... the question is why did more vote Tory than Labour ? What did they see that you didn't ? Have you ever voted Tory (out of curiosity) ?

23 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I want a better funded NHS that doesn't go deeper and deeper into private ownership .......

So what is your thinking on the Labour driven private finance initiatives that have crippled many of our hospitals whose single biggest debt is the repayment of these hideous "loans" that Labour used to build hospitals. The Tories are chucking stupid money at the NHS (a lot more than Labour) but as even the NHS openly admit, it isn't money that is the problem, its the massive growth in demand for services that is the problem. Chasing that demand with money is beyond any party's capability unless taxes are raised significantly ...... which I favour strongly.

If you want to understand the reason the NHS struggles beyond Daily Mirror headlines, look at that demand data that is out there because the answer is to reduce that demand. The NHS is being misused and that is the problem ..... we are screwing it up !

4 minutes ago, bickster said:

No because it's simplistic twaddle that is only true under the last Labour Government because of a global recession at the end of their tenure, In fact for much of their term in office, unemployment remained a steady 5% (esp between 1997 - 2005) 5% is the generally accepted definition of full emplyment

Simplistic Twaddle is probably what you would like to believe but you know as well as I do that it is true and has been verified many times with (if I recall) 1920s being the last time Labour presided over a fall in unemployment.

9 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I would love to hear what you and others voted for, not what you voted against, when you voted for the Tories. 

Shouldn't that question be "I would love to hear why the majority of voters voted for the Tories." and surely you must have an idea as to the answer ?

I liked certain elements offered by each of the parties so it was a case of who got most ticks. Labour scared me and that in its own right was enough for me to vote against them. Their attitude towards privatisation, Brexit, mortgages were enough for me to panic over and there was plenty more. I also didn't like the "direct action" mantra spouted by the left wing (eg Militant) which resulted in long standing party representatives being ousted and saw this at close quarters in my area.

I was also pro Brexit and I couldn't make my mind up what Labour's view was but it seemed they were prepared to move against the democratic vote whereas the Tories were clear they were going for it. 

At the end of the day, when you have or had a two party choice then voting A because B scares the shite out of you is a more than reasonable basis on which to choose.

27 minutes ago, bickster said:

Some of the rest of it is fact. Labour is historically the Party of low taxation. It's the Tories that put taxes up far more than Labour ever did. Look it up

Assume that you also noted that Labour has historically been the party of unemployment with an increase in unemployment under every Labour government since the war ?

Should you not mention that too in fairness ?

8 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

In fairness he lasted about two posts longer than I thought he would.

I totally get why a lot of people wouldn't want to vote Labour or Lib Dem or SNP etc. What I will never, ever get my head around is how anyone goes into a polling booth and sticks an X next to the Tory party, especially one being led by Boris Johnson, and endorses them. 

So you'd simply not vote ? Be honest here, did you actually vote for and endorse Corbyn ?

9 minutes ago, Genie said:

It’s pretty funny that on one hand they’re predicting a scary few weeks, cases rocking up and doubling every 2-3 days. 1000-2000 a day going into hospital, 90,000 daily cases

then on the other hand telling people to go out to parties.

 

 

Parties at venues where they know you won't get in without proving vaccinations and/or infection free so, basically, they've thought it through more than most of the critics out there !

32 minutes ago, bickster said:

Momentum was formed inside the Labour Party by Jon Lansman, Laura Parker and others. They were all members of the Labour Party at the time. It was formed after Corbyn became leader

They couldn't have been banned before by Labour because they didn't exist. Unlike a lot of left "groupings" they didn't form from the ashes of a previous group. They simply didn't exist prior to their formation.

I bow to your greater and better knowledge ..... I always believed they were formed from Militant Tendency who Labour kicked out at some point.

The rest of it I just don't agree with but hey, that is politics and in particular that is party politics. Debates like those in this thread will never conclude because those that vote through allegiance ("always voted xxxx and will never vote yyyy") will never change their allegiance no matter what happens ..... its like somebody saying Blues are better (I know - very unlikely !) so surely you'd switch to them but you don't because you're allegiance prevents you doing so.

I'm not party loyal and try to stand back and call the party that appears to be best in terms of delivering what I want to see but that leaves me likely to be drowned out by party loyal who don't want to discuss but just want to fire bullets at the party they have always hated !

For those reasons and only those reasons, I'm walking away from this endless thread and will focus instead on the Liverpool (A) thread !!! #UTV #VTID

2 hours ago, bobzy said:

So many questions, and hopefully you'll stick around to discuss rather than throwing this nonsense out there and disappearing   BUT... to start;

a]  If you're actively acknowledging that the current government are destroying the country (i.e: "...who will finish the job"), why wouldn't you want a change?  They're destroying the country!
b]  Who exactly do you class as the "lunatic leftie extremists"?
c]  I'm still unsure which the lesser of two evils is

I don't think you'll respond because "your type" tend not to, but it would be great if you did.

(a) I was picking up on earlier accusations and suggesting that if people think the Tories are screwing up then why vote them out in order to bring in a party that is a complete mess on top of having a nightmare CV in past government ?
(b) Momentum primarily ...... that group that were banned by Labour before Corbyn allowed them in return for their vote
(c) The lesser is the current government who have made some mistakes but have also achieved some good results. I see both and my view of them is therefore balanced. I personally have greater concern for the vaccination programme and the economy than I do a few people having a beer ..... if indeed that is what they did !
PS: I'm no blue Tory and have voted Labour as often as Tory and will always go with the right fit for what I want to see happen in this country ...... it will take some time and some significant change before I could ever see Labour as an option again but I hope they get there as a one-party country is never good whatever party you support.
 

3 hours ago, Davkaus said:

That well known leftie extremist and russian hat wearer...Keir Starmer? Good lord, I hope this is satire.

You seriously think he runs the party ? You don't think that Momentum and Corbyn's Marxists and the big Unions are still firmly holding the steering wheel ? Starmer is allowed to operate the way he does but he is dangling from many strings and he knows that which is why he picks his arguments very carefully !

A lot of poor performances out there and I hope that the lads had it drilled into them that being outplayed by the Noses at any level is not acceptable at this club ..... hope they all have mirrors in their houses because they should be taking a hard look at themselves tonight for that showing. PS: Good to see Keinando scoring !!! 

His main failing for me is his lack of pace and sharpness which is not something I recognise from his Norwich days. No doubting his skills but without the pace and sharpness, you'll get nailed by the opposition before you can put it to good use. Whenever he tries to make the big transitional runs that so typified his Norwich days, it looks like he is running in sand and I have no idea why that is.

He has been better in the last couple of games but really, to my eyes, he has just been mediocre as opposed to embarrassingly awful which I guess is an improvement but is still way short of where he needs to be.  

Strangely, I see similar issues with Grealish who this time last year had the skills AND the blistering pace and sharpness to race away from players he had just beaten whereas after Shin Splints Mk2 and since arriving at Man City, he can't do it anymore and is also getting nailed due to lack of pace and sharpness. I genuinely believe Grealish is labouring from his injury so maybe that is the case with Emi too.

I'm missing something with Luiz. Aside from the last quarter of last season, he's been distinctly average for us and I would lose absolutely no sleep if he left tomorrow !

1 hour ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

I watched the whole match on the official website about a year ago. I don’t think we were the better team on the day, we had one chance all game and Withe shinned it in. Maybe calling us jammy was a bit harsh but I did think that Bayern Munich were the better team on the day. I agree that we defended well and Spink had a worldie, we didn’t have many chances other than the goal, that’s how I saw it, others will think differently as per!

Nobody said we were the better side. Bayern were Europe's top side and much stronger than Villa but on the day we beat them. Just seems strange for a Villa fan to be so disrespectful and dismissive about one of the club's greatest moments ever ! 

10 hours ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

We had one chance all game, Bayern were all over us for the vast majority of the match. It’ll never happen again in our lifetimes 

Not sure I get the relevance of that in calling Villa "jammy". Hard work, great defence, great goalkeeping on Villa's part and poor finishing on Bayern's part does not add up to "jammy" ..... it just means we were the better team on the day ...... had that not been the case then we would have lost ! 

21 hours ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

I watched the European Cup final on the official site about a year ago, it wasn’t exactly swashbuckling attacking football. It was a jammy 1-0 win against a top side with a great reputation. I suppose it wouldn’t be Villa, if we played the opposition off the park

As somebody who WAS there, I think "jammy" is not only inappropriate but disrespectful to some heroic performances at both individual and team level.

I honestly don't think Watkins would have cut inside for the goal if Ings was in that area ..... he would have looked for a pass !

Villa TV

1 hour ago, MCU said:

This is such a strange punt, even Gerrard won't believe his luck. He won't give a monkeys if it doesn't go well for him here, he'll get a pay off and end up somewhere like Norwich (respectively). He's managed one club in an arguably 2 team league (I know it's cliche but it's true) and off the top of my head Celtic haven't been as good in recent years, so it's quite timely Gerrard has won the league with Rangers. FYI as much as it sounds like it I'm not disregarding his achievments... fair play to him. But this is a different ball game. We've sacked Smith in the hope of getting someone in who can take us further which is Europe. And we go with Steven Gerrard. Hope he proves me wrong but I dunno.

Surely the last two words would suffice ?

14 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

Exactly!

I'm not writing him off because his cult ......

Confess I did read that wrong !!!