Redman

What you have to realise is that for Liverpool, this has always been a win-win situation which is why Benitez allowed himself to become embroiled in it in the first place.

This really isn't a win - win situation for Liverpool, regardless of how much you try to convince yourself otherwise.

You have, very publically, made Gareth Barry your number one summer transfer target.

If it doesnt happen, you look very siilly - and Steven Gerrard will probably consider his future.

That doesn't ring true though because if he was the number one target, we would have just met the asking price and got the whole matter sorted by now.

Nor does it ring true that we can't afford to meet the asking price - Benitez just signed another kid today for £1.5m that could have gone towards the Barry fund.

Redman you seem to have a higher post count than most of the villa fans, are you sure your not slowly moving over to the claret and blue side?

I've always respected Villa - not sure why. You are a proper football club. I'm not for turning though.

Redman does your club have the money to sign Barry?

I don't know for sure but I'll tell you what I think.

To buy the likes of both Barry and Keane, Liverpool have to sell. If Barry signs, Alonso will leave but not necessarily immediately. I don't think Alonso staying would prevent the transfer from happening but the books would need to be balanced somehow sooner-or-later.

I think you should just pay up to be honest not dick us about.

You've got a point.

I don't understand why Liverpool fans think Benitez has won the mind games after today's statement given by MON?

I suppose whatever makes them happy!

its because they are clueless deluded chimps and cannot ever see anything their club do, as their fault...

it is our fault that they cannot afford him, it is our fault that gerrard begged barry to join them, and it is our fault that benitez waffled to the press about where barry would fit into their side and "problems when your captain wants to leave"..

well, you should know you fat muppett... wonder what this deal breaking down will do to gerrard after his very public begging for barry...

What you have to realise is that for Liverpool, this has always been a win-win situation which is why Benitez allowed himself to become embroiled in it in the first place.

I know this is difficult to swallow but you have to be objective to understand that the worst that can happen for Liverpool is that they lose out on signing Barry and carry on as before, whereas one of the clubs aspiring to challenge Liverpool are left with a disillusioned captain.

You can talk about class and dignity and respect if you like and you'd have a point but recent history shows that these qualities don't win football matches and silverware.

Rightly or wrongly, a lot of Liverpool supporters have got the hump with O'Neill, as many Villa fans have with Benitez. All I think is that both men have acted in what they deem to be the best interests of their club. But now Benitez seems to have other prioriites while O'Neill is still busy trying to sort out the Barry mess, some reds choose to interpret this as a victory in the battle of wills between the two managers.

Let me apologise in advance for any offence this post may cause and Pablo - delusion isn't exclusive to Liverpool fans.

The only "battle" that's occured between the two managers is who Gareth Barry plays for next season, and thus far there's only been one winner in that fight, Liverpool fans can claim whatever "victory" you want, but at the end of the day your club had ideas of pulling a fast one on us and have failed miserably, say your a "massive club" but when you've been pubically challenged to try and take one of our players you've failed to come up with the answers.

That's another way of looking at it but there is still a good month before the window closes.

Redman does your club have the money to sign Barry?

I don't know for sure but I'll tell you what I think.

To buy the likes of both Barry and Keane, Liverpool have to sell. If Barry signs, Alonso will leave but not necessarily immediately. I don't think Alonso staying would prevent the transfer from happening but the books would need to be balanced somehow sooner-or-later.

As a Villa fan living and working on Merseyside I have yet to meet a Red who is keen on signing Barry.

Your manager/club/Gerrard has made a great job of ****ing up our captain`s head.

I sincerely hope that Barry stays and puts all this behind him, Gerrard gets tapped up by a bigger club, ie Man Utd , you ****ers don`t win the Prem (again) and we finish above you.

Will it happen? probably not, but it would be fun.

Now I know why Evertonians think you lot are such ****holes.

Have a great weekend !!

Can't say I blame you.

However, I don't think Liverpool can be accused of **** up Barry's head. As one of the most effective and consistent Premiership players and now an England regular, it's no surprise that he might want to play at a higher level if the opportunity arose.

My belief is that his head was **** up first and Liverpool are just one of several clubs who happen to be a position to take advantage.

I don't understand why Liverpool fans think Benitez has won the mind games after today's statement given by MON?

I suppose whatever makes them happy!

its because they are clueless deluded chimps and cannot ever see anything their club do, as their fault...

it is our fault that they cannot afford him, it is our fault that gerrard begged barry to join them, and it is our fault that benitez waffled to the press about where barry would fit into their side and "problems when your captain wants to leave"..

well, you should know you fat muppett... wonder what this deal breaking down will do to gerrard after his very public begging for barry...

What you have to realise is that for Liverpool, this has always been a win-win situation which is why Benitez allowed himself to become embroiled in it in the first place.

I know this is difficult to swallow but you have to be objective to understand that the worst that can happen for Liverpool is that they lose out on signing Barry and carry on as before, whereas one of the clubs aspiring to challenge Liverpool are left with a disillusioned captain.

You can talk about class and dignity and respect if you like and you'd have a point but recent history shows that these qualities don't win football matches and silverware.

Rightly or wrongly, a lot of Liverpool supporters have got the hump with O'Neill, as many Villa fans have with Benitez. All I think is that both men have acted in what they deem to be the best interests of their club. But now Benitez seems to have other prioriites while O'Neill is still busy trying to sort out the Barry mess, some reds choose to interpret this as a victory in the battle of wills between the two managers.

Let me apologise in advance for any offence this post may cause and Pablo - delusion isn't exclusive to Liverpool fans.

They do not have the money for both Keane and Barry.

The sale of Alonso was going to fund the bid for Barry. Now that has gone a little wrong.

I don't think there is pressure on Benitez to sell Alonso before he can sign Keane and Barry but he would need to balance the books eventually, even as late as January if necessary.

REDMAN, why do all the Liverpool fans blame us for releasing the story to the media in the first instance?

Reading the RAWK forum, I think we have mildly irritated some of your loyal fans.

Probably a case of believing what they want to. Benitez did claim it wasn't Liverpool who leaked the Barry interest to the Echo and chief reporter Tony Barrett backed this up on his blog. Highly dubious though.

“Liverpool have come back to us and we have responded to their proposal with a letter,’’ said the Villa manager yesterday. “We’re still waiting to hear back from Liverpool after putting that proposal to them.

“It’s really up to Liverpool. I really don’t know how it’s going to work out at the moment. I’m sure there will be some sort of resolution at some stage or another.”

What we know about the letter is that there was a letter. At no point in that statement does it say "Villa are willing to negotiate" ot that we are offering a "proposal". It says nothing of that nature at all.

See bold.

From where? That's not the quote from above.

Err... I think it is.

“Liverpool have come back to us and we have responded to their proposal with a letter,’’ said the Villa manager yesterday. “We’re still waiting to hear back from Liverpool after putting that proposal to them.

“It’s really up to Liverpool. I really don’t know how it’s going to work out at the moment. I’m sure there will be some sort of resolution at some stage or another.”

What we know about the letter is that there was a letter. At no point in that statement does it say "Villa are willing to negotiate" ot that we are offering a "proposal". It says nothing of that nature at all.

See bold.

Surely the point is MON has no obligation to negotiate. At the end of the day whether he should or shouldn't lower his price, he has no obligation to do so and if he chooses not to, which seems to be the case, then that's his perogative.

Absolutely.

I don't think that's been questioned, has it? Not on this forum, anyway.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, (which maybe true, I'm so bored of people arguing with you and you posting the same thing 100 times over I don't read this thread in much detail) but haven't you been arguing that MON should accept Liverpool's offer?

I'm in agreement with the 84% (or whatever it is) who voted that yes he should accept it just to get it over with but I haven't argued that he is duty bound to do so - if he feels it is in Villa's interests to hold out for the full £18m, that's what he should do.

Surely the point is MON has no obligation to negotiate. At the end of the day whether he should or shouldn't lower his price, he has no obligation to do so and if he chooses not to, which seems to be the case, then that's his perogative.

Absolutely.

I don't think that's been questioned, has it? Not on this forum, anyway.

For all anybody knows, Liverpool may not have bid for Barry at all.

Does Rafa Benitez exist?

Do Liverpudlians have free will?

Is Stevie G the highest form of life in the universe or merely an insignificant speck in infinite space?

Tune in after the break for more metaphysical musings from Redman, our favourite Scouse agitator...

Will Martin O'Neill ever actually finish a sentence? :winkold:

You still here?!!

Adding to your 300+ posts regarding a player you apparently don't give a stuff about. You must've broken (1) the 1,000 post barrier on a bin-dipper site regarding the Alonso transfer, and (2) probably about 5,000 limit on what Mascherano likes for tea ....both being players you rate higher than Barry.

What's the matter mate - nothing to do whilst waiting for next week's Giro?

Stop being so silly.

I've never claimed not to give a stuff about Barry, nor do I rate Alonso higher than him. You might find there are a number of posters here who appreciate reading an alternative perspective so out of respect for them, if not me, I would advise you to be more tolerant. I'm not here on a windup.

You're hard work, aren't you?

Not really. I need a challenge and I'm not getting one.

After a summer of rejected bids, acrimony, beligerence and blatant non-negotiable stance, nobody in their right mind would believe O'Neill's letter to Benitez has opened the door to a deal, especially when you factor in the less-than-enthusiastic response and the continued impasse.

Why does MON need to "open the door to a deal", as you repeatedly put it? Gareth Barry is a contracted Aston Villa player, and for Bin Dippers FC to sign him, they need to match the asking price.

Call it assumed knowledge if you want mate, I call it common sense.

It's not common sense though, is it. For all you know, the letter may have said:

Dear FSW,

Go **** yourself wih a rusty spade. We will not sell our captain.

You are merely speculating and presenting as fact what you neither know nor can support.

I think you need some clarification about my position here because you seem to be arguing with yourself more than you are me. If you are after a challenge, you should look elsewhere because I just want to talk about football, thanks. And if you insist on disrupting reasonable debate with conversational terrorism and scorched earth tactics, then you aren't doing anybody any favours, including yourself. All I offer is my opinion and yes, speculation - I can't help it if you misinterpret that as assumed knowledge, can I? Did you not notice this entire thread, nee forum is based on what you consider to be assumed knowledge? For all anybody knows, Liverpool may not have bid for Barry at all.

“Liverpool have come back to us and we have responded to their proposal with a letter,’’ said the Villa manager yesterday. “We’re still waiting to hear back from Liverpool after putting that proposal to them.

“It’s really up to Liverpool. I really don’t know how it’s going to work out at the moment. I’m sure there will be some sort of resolution at some stage or another.”

That above contains what we know about the letter. If you choose to interpret that as opening the door to negotiation, that's up to you. I interpret it as exactly what O'Neill says it is - a proposal outlining what he wants to make the deal happen.

So commen sense is what passes for accusing another manager of being a kidnapper?

Who is responsibnle for the rejected bids, acrimony, belligerence and non-negotiable stance?

That's another argument entirely.

But as you ask, Benitez and Liverpool have obviously played a significant part.

Redman, you keep going on about a refusal to negotiate, but I fail to see any evidence that this is actually the case. I've no doubt that MON has been difficult to deal with throughout all of this (I wonder why?) but to suggest he's sticking his fingers in his ears and going 'la la la la la' is frankly ludicrous.

The latest reports point to MON putting a proposal to Liverpool last week some time. As far as I know, nothing has been heard back from Liverpool since. So who is it here who isn't negotiating?

I think we can consider O'Neill's letter to be more of a ransom note than a starting point for negotiation.

Really? What did it say? That sounds awfully ITK...

Not ITK buddy, just good old-fashioned common sense.

So? What did it say? You can't possibly comment on it unless you know the content, and your posts here displaying assumed knowledge will be duly taken apart.

This is a Villa message board.

You're hard work, aren't you?

After a summer of rejected bids, acrimony, beligerence and blatant non-negotiable stance, nobody in their right mind would believe O'Neill's letter to Benitez has opened the door to a deal, especially when you factor in the less-than-enthusiastic response and the continued impasse.

Call it assumed knowledge if you want mate, I call it common sense.

If you asked my opinion, I would say that as things stand, Liverpool have walked away from the deal because of O'Neill's steadfast refusal to negotiate.

I think 'walked away' is highly unlikely. I've no doubt that you're happy to sit back and play the waiting game though - in the hope that as time goes by MON will feel pressured into accepting a lower offer.

When's the deadline for Champion's League registration again?

I think it is clear that a deal won't be done for £18m. If O'Neill decided to drop the asking price, I'm sure Benitez could be tempted back to the table.

To be eligible for the 3rd qualifying round, Barry would need to have signed by August 7th.

Either Redman doesn't like my point, or I don't have a big enough post-count to warrant a response :cry: :cry:

Neither of the above mate - I just didn't know what to reply. :winkold:

Having rejected offer after offer for the past month, who honestly believes O'Neill wrote to Liverpool to demand anything less than the full asking price? Doesn't the lack of a response to said letter tell us all we need to know about O'Neill's position re: negotiation?

Well, as with most negotiations, that may depend on the result. If (a big if) it really is the case that he demanded the full price, and Rafa ends up paying it, I'd say he'd been a pretty damn good negotiator.

If I had to guess (and it is a guess, as with all of us here) I'd imagine Rafa has offered around £14-£15m so far. And MON's letter might have said, how about £17m plus Finnan?

And who's to say that's MON's final position, as Liverpool haven't come back to us. Perhaps if they went to £15m + Finnan, or £16m + Finnan something might happen.

The negotiation process clearly isn't over anyway, or one of the sides would have walked away from the deal I'd have thought.

If you asked my opinion, I would say that as things stand, Liverpool have walked away from the deal because of O'Neill's steadfast refusal to negotiate.

Redman, you keep going on about a refusal to negotiate, but I fail to see any evidence that this is actually the case. I've no doubt that MON has been difficult to deal with throughout all of this (I wonder why?) but to suggest he's sticking his fingers in his ears and going 'la la la la la' is frankly ludicrous.

The latest reports point to MON putting a proposal to Liverpool last week some time. As far as I know, nothing has been heard back from Liverpool since. So who is it here who isn't negotiating?

I think we can consider O'Neill's letter to be more of a ransom note than a starting point for negotiation.

Really? What did it say? That sounds awfully ITK...

Not ITK buddy, just good old-fashioned common sense.

Sorry but it isn't common sense if you don't know either way.

Having rejected offer after offer for the past month, who honestly believes O'Neill wrote to Liverpool to demand anything less than the full asking price? Doesn't the lack of a response to said letter tell us all we need to know about O'Neill's position re: negotiation?

I do want Barry at Liverpool as Alonso's replacement, not because he is a better player but because he would be a better fit and I think his set-piece expertise could add another dimension.

It would be a blow not to conclude the transfer after all this time but hardly the end of the world - I don't necessarily want Alonso to leave and nor do most other reds I have spoken to. As for Rafa, it wouldn't be the first time he's be foiled in the transfer market - he'd just shrug it off I expect.

As for a fee, I would have walked away after having £14m rejected. And before anyone brings it up, I would have done the same for Hargreaves and Carrick too. Not Mascherano though. I'd have paid £20m + for him.

Easy being civil isn't it? There are plenty of Villa fans on here who can debate sensibly!!

A couple of things. Set piece expertise? You mean his corners? He doesn't do Ashley Young type free kicks but he does take a very good corner. Are you expecting blockbusting free kicks from outside the area? If so, you have the wrong man.

You say £14 million, I'd say 15. I would also have been happy to have swapped him for cash and Benayoun but that's only my opinion. I still think that this'll still happen but I'd prefer straight cash as Finnan is 31/32?

With reference to Carrick and Hargreaves, and to a lesser degree, Barry, the so called bigger clubs usually get taken for a few extra quid, like the Italian clubs did back in the 80's and 90's, simply because we know they've got the money. Finally, Barry is not the England man you see when he plays for Villa, a good player nevertheless.

I'm wouldn't expect blockbusters, just consistent, quality deliveries from crosses, corners and free-kicks. This is one area where Liverpool are seriously lacking.

I'd be sad to see Finnan go - he'd do a job for Villa but only as a stop-gap. He wouldn't let you down. I doubt Benayoun is an option though. Benitez loves the guy, as do the fans.

They will be fuming!

I'm not sure about 'fuming'.

'Miffed' might be better.

Redman, can I ask you, do you really want Gareth Barry at Liverpool or has this become a bit personal because Villa have stood up to your club and therefore you need it done to save the egg on Rafa's face. Serious question, not on a wind up.

Secondly, what fee would you really want to pay for Barry? Don't try to be clever, be honest.

I do want Barry at Liverpool as Alonso's replacement, not because he is a better player but because he would be a better fit and I think his set-piece expertise could add another dimension.

It would be a blow not to conclude the transfer after all this time but hardly the end of the world - I don't necessarily want Alonso to leave and nor do most other reds I have spoken to. As for Rafa, it wouldn't be the first time he's be foiled in the transfer market - he'd just shrug it off I expect.

As for a fee, I would have walked away after having £14m rejected. And before anyone brings it up, I would have done the same for Hargreaves and Carrick too. Not Mascherano though. I'd have paid £20m + for him.