Raver50032

I actually have a lot of optimism in our youth and I think we can have a very good team for the next few years but I don't think McLeish can be the guy that turns us into that team. Gardner, Bannan, Lichaj, Herd, Baker, Clark, and Weimann all could turn into really good players.

The problem is, and this is off topic, so I apologise... but if those young players suddenly come good and have a good 10 or 20 games next season, you know the 'club rapists' of United, City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea will all be in for them and we will be back to square one yet again...

I hope they do come good... I really do. If they don't, next season is going to be every bit of a nightmare that this has been.

It will remain to be seen whether Mr Mcliesh has the talent to get the best out of our talent... I cannot see it at the moment and I feel that further turmoill and unrest/inconsistency is on the cards before we see anything get better...

Twisted by the dark side, I have become.

I've stopped going this season despite having a season ticket. Sure as hell not going to pay for the pleasure of having an empty seat represent me at VP. I'm going to Villa Spurs to say goodbye and thats that for me until the football improves, which I imagine will coincide with the departure of AM.

For those that do the stats I've had a season ticket for 26 years (or so).

This /\

Already spent my ST money for next year on something guarenteed to give me years of enjoyment, not 19 games of misery and dis-enjoyment.

I voted no-Mcleish. He's actually had enough time to work his magic. And it made me ill. Don't enjoy it anymore...

Other factors for me include;

- spending time with my family on one of only two days off a week I get.

- other hobbies and interests that currently give me more enjoyment and value for money

- costs of getting to and from the game (train, bus, car or whatever)

- top flight football is shite and broken, filled with greed and overpaid (disgustingly overpaid), ungrateful and cheating players (Ashley Young for Man U against QPR).

- Shit refs... and always in favour of the big teams; look at Chelsea and Man U games at the weekend. You all know it to be true.

- Life's too short to be wasting time getting depressed at Villa Park.

So long and thanks for all the fish.

Raver will return when the shroud of the dark side has been lifted from VP.

Though I have not always been your biggest fan from a footballing perspective, your wonder goal at Derby (I was there) in the 6-0 victory will be long, long cherished and for that reason alone, you have a place in my Villa Legend memory box.

Aside from football, although I do not know you, I feel I have to say that I am very shocked at the diagnosis and to hear that you are ill and have been playing for our great club while feeling the effects of that undiganosed illness. For that you have my greatest respect and I am sure that everyone involved with the club and the wider footballing community will support you though this troubling time. We all hope that you continue your good fight off the pitch and prove yourself a winner... for your family, yourself and for the club.

Godspeed your recovry Stils...

so what do the fans do?

some fans go to support an enterprising/winning/progressive team and enjoy the ride.

Some fans go to meet with friends/ family they wouldn't get to see and just enjoy the day out.

Different motives for going.

I stopped going before Mcleish & Houllier, because i didn't believe in the style of football (hoofball) that was taking us to some decent results and then some howlers, it was all a bit too unpredicatable for me... I never knew what Villa team would turn up.

It has got gradually worse in terms of results, but that does not give me reason to doubt my original decision... despite a bit more ball on the ground other reasons for not being drawn back are in evidence, like a total inability to secure a win....particularly at home, where it used to be a fortress( many moons ago of course)

You cannot pick performances or results, because one without the other is pointless....Progressive football is both.

Fans have to choose in the summer whether they want to invest in it, but for those that are passionate about there football, don't be too surprised if you find many renewing for other reasons.

Remember the famous Docherty statement " If you had 11 claret and blue shirts hanging on a line across the pitch, 30,000 would turn up to see them.

I never quite knew whether that was meant to be a compliment or a sleight at our football intelligence.....I'd like to think the former.

I've already spent the money I would have put aside for 2012-13 ST on my other hobbies/interests. So, the die has been cast already for me.

Swansea at home was the turning point for me. Villa didn't turn up, so I haven't been since. Some of it is health related because of how angry I got, but hey ho. Add in the mix about how I feel about Premier League and England FA and you start to think about the money involved... It's disgusting.

Doesn't mean I don't love the club... Of course I want it to be successful, but I don't enjoy it. And since Swansea, I haven't missed going. Not even for that flukey win against Fulham. I respect you hardy souls that still go.

The way I'm looking at it B6 to be honest is, If I didn't go, chances are I'd end up in the boozer watching it anyway and spending far more than the £20 a game our two STs are costing

Plus this way I get to not only go to the game but to be honest also spend some time with my lad too

Fully support the quality time aspect with your lad... It is fair to say that I have such considerations too with my wee lass when deciding whether or not to buy a ST next term. She is too young to come to VP with me and probably would just about struggle to stay concentrated on the game with the way things are...

Going to football with your lad will be an event, rather than an ordeal (which it has become for me)...

by the sounds of it st sales wont even be down by that much next season, might even be a better stmosphere once the moaners have left

Hopefully! 8)

Blind love for £480.00... Sorry, not for me.

Seriously lauging to myself at the people that think that a flukey last gasp 3 points should mean we change our mind about McLeish and get behind him.

Congrats Eck, you got the subs correct, well done. What your forgetting is that you have also got the subs and tactics completely wrong for pretty much every other game this season.

Ill be very happy that we avoid relegation but that doesnt change the fact we have a blinkered buffoon running the club and an out of his depth, tactically useless manager. The scary thing is that its looking likely he will get millions to spunk next season. Truly scary.

Im releived we got 3 points as it gets us closer to staying up under our own power. I just cannot get excited or happy about it as I simply dont care at all. Just a total sense of apathy. Mostly down to McLeish and Randy.

This - 3 points, brilliant. But one swallow doesn;t make a summer.

Like many others, I fell into an emotional 'we've turned the corner' following the Stoke away and Chelsea away results. But look what happened to Chelsea after that lol! And look what happened to us? Spunked by the Welsh Assembly.

Feet on the ground folks... We have a bumpy road ahead, even with a scrappy, at the death reprieve from the Wee Man...

Oh that's right

Chips are down

**** it I'm not going approach

Great support

What utter nonsense, the fact that you choose to spend your money and watch that drivel at VP does not make you a better fan than others that will stay away.

Thanks Villadude, I got the message that it was for me. That's fine. I don't enjoy it any more (and it's not because we lose/draw - I enjoyed the Arsenal game at home) and I have more going on in my life that I can do without going to Villa Park to be miserable. Doesn't in my view, make me any less of a supporter. I have a certain amount of disposable income and I will choose to spend it where I can have some enjoyment from it. Life's too short to piss it up the wall getting angry and miserable every other weekend.

For me, I can support the club as and when I see fit. And I don't subscribe to 'blind love' for anything. If people want to spend their money at VP at the moment, good luck to them. It ain't for me. Villa was here long before I was around and unless we get liquidated next year, will be here long after I am in my urn. And when I am in my urn, do you think the club will give two hoots? Will they ****.

On the other hand... at least if I leave my seat empty, the club still has my money for this season (which is fine, because I entered into a contract with them when I bought my chair for 2011-12) but has the embarrassment of my empty seat protest - so I am still supporting the club in a roundabout way. Twisted madness I know, but whatever.

The other good thing, at least I don't have to boo ;-) and reap the scorn of BBC or Daily Mirror journalists.

So all round, I am not that much of a disloyal supporter. I just choose not to go at the moment. That's my choice.

Eck has to go.

It's got nothing to do with the price as far as I'm concerned, I'd happily pay more if I actually enjoyed going to VP these days.

I didn't renew last season, and I certainly won't be this season either..

This - there is no point in blind love/support. If you are genuinely not enjoying it, why put yourself through it? I don't and spend my money on my other hobbies/interests.

There is more to life than 90 minutes of misery at VP (win, LOSE or DRAW), hassles in the traffic away from the stadium, and irregular kick off times.

I'm off down Nuneaton Town next year with my old man. Premier League and England PLC can go to hell.

Hang on a minute... I seem to recall just a couple of weeks ago Gabby was saying that the players didn't really notice the stuff with the crowd, I wish I could find the quote.

Now on the eve of a home game in which McLeish is likely to get stick he says the complete opposite, something stinks about this.

Trent,

you are spot on... I was about to post something similar when I came across your post. I certainly remember it...

Gabby is having his strings pulled - don't be fooled.

I don't really care about being labelled as 'fickle' or as a disruptive influence any more (my boycott following the Swansea game is still in force BTW). Fans are forking out a lot of money (me included to finance my empty ST seat my lord) to get bored, frustrated and ruin their weekends... Why bother?

If it's because you 'love the club' fair enough. But I don't fall for blind love when I work so hard for my weekends off/annual leave, then pay out so much money to watch a match... But then see all the players and the manager et al creaming so much money week in and week out, that is obscene, then serving up such turgid, disinteresting pooh. I'm not enjoying it - so I don't go... Simples.

--

Grrrrrr, now I am wound up again.

Good luck to those plucky supporters willing to subject themselves to 90 minutes of backs to the wall shoddyness tomorrow. While I am killing Sith Lords, you will be cold, miserable and watching Andy Johnson and Clint do what they do best. I pity you and share your pain in advance.

Maybe Gabby's right we should get right behind McLeish. Lets spend the next match singing, '

Gabby Agbonlahor, he tracks back on the wing to cover the fullbacks.'

It doesn't have the same ring.

Or maybe we should write a series of McLiesh backing songs.

'For the love of God, hold on to that one-nil.'... or some songs about how happily we are looking forward to a draw.

i think this may be apt

score, score, once we get one we may draw

we used to be scoring

but now we are boring

draw villa draw

Is that to the tune of the lords song "dance there wherever you may be"

Draw, Draw, we're as boring as can be

We are the draw specialists you see

We'll lead you all, whoever you may be

But the end of the game, it'll be 3 - 3

Boyangel...

In the voice of Boss Nass... 'Me's a like-a-theeeesss.'

All this talk about Heskey...

Come on, the man can barely last a full 90 minutes with the huffing and puffing that is going to be required. And I doubt he will be able to maintain it week in and week out for the remainder of the season...

Speedy recovery please Darren... If not for Villa, England needs you now that loose cannon Rooney has shit the bed.

This always happens with England doesn't it...

The problems are mounting though :

Injuries to key players

Inability to defend corners

Inability to win at home

Lack of movement / ideas / creativity

Disinterested Owner

Unhappy Players

No team spirit

Our Player of the season about to go back to LA

Quite frankly the club is in turmoil

Fans not turning up to games.

Yep - that's me... I've got a ST but have not used it since the Swansea no show as the whole match day experience built up to making me ill. Time to walk away.

Maybe see you on the other side. Not with Eck around. Sorry.

Roller coaster you say?

Flaming ghost train!!!

:-)

Yep, claret with blue sash would be superb....any mock ups?

Has everybody forgotten this?

Clicky here

Opinion then will always be divided won't it? That kit was really nice actually and I wore it on many occasions, which is saying something as I hardly ever buy an away kit... I think to date, that is the only one.

The only thing that ruined that kit was the poor placement of the sponsor's logo. I am not a designer, so back off with your flames already. Other than that - it was a fine kit. And that... is my opinion.

Warnock - I am on the Kellers Void server, which is a US Eastern Standard Time (New York kind of area) server and is PvE. I belong to the Red Five Guild and there are normally between 40 and 60 players on each planet. Always somebody looking to do grouping and Heroics...

Can I suggest that you seek to join Red Five guild and get your server swapped? Red Five (and alternate Imperial group Rogue Five) are a good set of guys with a good spread of MMO experience. The leader lives in Northampton, so though it is a US server, there are loads of us UK and European folk on the server almost every night. There are World Boss, Operations and Datacron nights depending on the mood, and there is a good representative in the PvP areas too.

Look up redfivegamers.com

Ask for Trady (the leader) and say that Braefentos (me) sent you... I am sure you would be very welcome.

All those shirts are awful.

i think that was the under current of his post

Yes - I was wondering whether it was sarcasm, and I am hopeful that it was. The shirts were really nasty looking IMO. The most important thing though is - not all that many football fans are actually footballer shaped. No point selling me a shirt that only goes down to my navel, nor a shirt that will cling to my skin like that horrible Italian Kappa kit of season's past.

I'm not Fat Baz of Blues fame, but likewise, I am not Daniel Craig either. If they want to sell shirts, sell the fans something that at least they can wear withouth being branded childish (is he still around???) or obviously does not fit one's frame...

But that kit selection was truly woeful. Even the most ardent of 'I can't believe fans are complaining about this' droogs can see that this is dross kit.

I am aware from the OS for SWTOR that there is a whole gamut of new content to be drip released to help justify the subscription that people need in order to play the game. That's fine with me, and just what I expect. After I have levelled my Smuggler, I will go back and do a Jedi... and then a Trooper and so on. Lot's of fun with just levelling and simple grouping to do the 'heroic2 and 4' missions.

Then... there is the spectre of PvP - that looks as though that will take off too.

For my subscription, I feel like I am getting excellent value for money such is my engagement with the game. The same cannot be said for The Villa, which feels like a big rip off since MON walked out. But there are enough threads on that matter elsewhere on this site.

Phumfeinz - that's a shame chap...

It has completely bowled me over I have to say and I maybe hooked on it. So many more late nights than I am used to... I am still only Level 28 (and 1/4) and having my second dip at Coruscant with my Smuggler. Being mad on SW, it is something that I 'have' to do. That said, the universe in which TOR is based upon seems so much more technologically advanced than what you see in Episodes 4, 5 and 6. I guess that is meant to be the dark times of the Empire taking everyone 'backwards.' Maybe 4, 5 and 6 will be re-made one day...

As stated previously, this is my first MMO and I am still enjoying. Sorry to see you go Phumfeinz... Happy hunting - wherever you go next.

Reebok 95/96 Home was my favourite kit of recent history - lovely material and print. They then fooked up with the next kit that looked like a migrain headache occurring all over it.

Our Umbro 'lace up' retro kit of 1992/93 was also a super job. I thought we looked really unique (better than Uniteds and Ipswich's kit of the same season) and real classy in that kit. Even Frank McAvennie.

Our worst kits in recent times have been Asics 1993/94 and 94/95 - abosolute dross - my Villa badge fell off after two washes and on low temperatures.

I'll give Macron a chance, but I would prefer (for what I believe is the club's sake) to see Nike continue - even after the farce of the delays...

I don't subscribe to whoever the '33 year old' was that said it was childish for grown men to be seen wearing football tops. Snob... :-p Amateur!!! lol I am 37 and wear my shirt with pride.

I don't put player names and numbers on the back - but I put my own name and number on instead. The shirt is MINE.

said 33 year old was myself........... i didnt say I was right, I just said in my opinion it is childish for grown men to wear footy replica tops in everyday life........... if that makes me a snob, then so be it......

Glad we agreed on that then...

Reebok 95/96 Home was my favourite kit of recent history - lovely material and print. They then fooked up with the next kit that looked like a migrain headache occurring all over it.

Our Umbro 'lace up' retro kit of 1992/93 was also a super job. I thought we looked really unique (better than Uniteds and Ipswich's kit of the same season) and real classy in that kit. Even Frank McAvennie.

Our worst kits in recent times have been Asics 1993/94 and 94/95 - abosolute dross - my Villa badge fell off after two washes and on low temperatures.

I'll give Macron a chance, but I would prefer (for what I believe is the club's sake) to see Nike continue - even after the farce of the delays...

I don't subscribe to whoever the '33 year old' was that said it was childish for grown men to be seen wearing football tops. Snob... :-p Amateur!!! lol I am 37 and wear my shirt with pride.

I don't put player names and numbers on the back - but I put my own name and number on instead. The shirt is MINE.

Thinking simply, we should NEVER have the same kit manufacturer as West Ham or Burnley - surely the temptation of Macron in that case would be just to change the club badge and sponsor detail... Where is our individuality then?

**** off with the black socks too - they look so disjointed. Claret/Blue shirt, white shorts and claret/blue socks - period.

Free season ticket going?

Hi there (Barney?)...

It would be an invisible statement if I let somebody physically sit in my seat. So, other than offering the card to a Manure fan (who would stand... boom boom), I am playing the martyr, and I have offered my card to my mate who sits behind me so that he can rest his feet on my seat... If any jobsworth steward tries to intervene, my mate will have the season card with him to show that he is quite within his rights to have his bodily parts in residence.

Good request though...

Well Kids, he will stay until his position becomes untenable, be that through time (years of bad performance) or Attendances falling to unacceptable levels.

Personally i still say a boycott is the way forward and would have carried on my thread if some children hadnt decided to post immature things in there and cause its closure.

To me its either we let them know or we arent really doing our job as fans.

I'll boycott with you. I am 37 (my regular attendance goes back to Graham Turner days) and this season has been a total rip off for my money in terms of my season ticket purchase. That free pie I nearly choked on against Liverplop.

Anyhow, I had a 'dizzy spell' on 83 minutes against Swansea such was my anger and rage at what I was watching. No fight, no passion, silly subs, silly starting line up (some say) etc. Going to the Villa has gotten me so wound up, making me miserable and feeling as though I am not getting value for money/entertainment, that it is starting to impact on my health and welfare. That in turn has the potential to impact on my family. One of my friends is concerned about depression...

As such, I am away now for the rest of the season and do not expect to be returning. I know that I need to take a chill pill and not take it so seriously... but football gets you, and grabs hold of you and makes you hold on too tight. I'm at the stage where I can't just sit there and watch that week in week out and seeing zero progress. It takes up too much of my hard earned free time that I should really spend with my lovely family.

This isn't the beautiful game any more - it's all lies, overpaid fancy dans, false dawns, false hope, shit refs etc etc. And then there was MON's debacle... and then Gerard's pointless era... and then Eck... I said last summer that I thought it inhumane to appoint somebody that would not benefit from a honeymoon period (I guess the early fixtures were a tad kind to him) and who would be under so much pressure had they lost to Blackburn as the first home match. And so it is panning out. And I really wanted him to do well and prove me wrong. I don't give a toss about his SHA connections.

When it gets you so bad that you feel yourself wanting to lash out and you feel as though you are turning into a thug, outbursting profanity, the like of which you never considered yourself previously capable and making yourself look a fool, and then getting so wound up you think you're going to collapse - it's time to walk away. Time to leave it alone and put your money elsewhere. That's what I'm doing.

Sorry - I can spend 400+ quid on something that is guarenteed to bring enjoyment and last many years. I see all those players (not just at Villa) getting paid all that money to prance around the pitch like billy-big-balls on the pretence that they are professionals. Do you really believe that you get value for money from them? Do you really think footballers deserve all that doe? No... they really don't. When you've got firemen and little kids rattling buckets and begging me for a donation outside the ground - that's perspective for you.

Fickle? Half-arsed supporter? I'll take that on the chin... But I tell you this, my health means more to me and my family than it does to Eck and Lerner.

I'm better off health-wise and financially without the misery of VP 2011-12. Why put myself through it? If you don't enjoy it, and it makes you feel ill - it's time to stop.

I don't mind losing... this isn't about losing football matches. I almost enjoyed the Arsenal game. It's the nature of the defeat, the clueless and powerless performances on the pitch. That rankles - and straight back into the debate about whether you think footballers per se in the Premiership are really worth those wages. If I performed as badly in my job, I'd be down the road. Simple as that.

The club won't miss me, I know that... but I see a brighter future for me and my family than I do for the people that are hell bent on watching that clunge week in and week out for the remainder of the season, or however long the tenure lasts.

(tin hat on... retreat from the firework... fists up...)