Fuse

A few things to consider.

1( If Bent has been tapped up by a.n other club and it is out in the open he would like to go then it becomes a matter of whether said club(s) are willing to pay enough for us to sell him. We have shown already we don't keep unhappy players

2) Bent does not have the supply line at Villa he had last year nor are we in a position to go and buy the right players to go with him

3) Is he a team player? I am not so sure he is or is all that popular with his team mates

4) If we could get a young upcoming striker with potential and a playmaker to sit behind them for the same money or less then I would be willing to go with this. My sense is we would need to get both from abroad and have no suggestions I cna think of but they are the type of players needed IMO.

5) McLeish has the balls to make the decision to do this. Let;s face it he can't be any less popular and i think he would be willing to take the chance.

Bent will go no doubt. Been on the cards for over 2 weeks.

Question is who will be coming to replace him. I only hope it does not involve anyone from Rangers which is my big fear..

In the last two games we have had 58% posession at home to Arsenal (when have we EVER had that amount of posession against them under Wenger?) and Stoke away where we normally get battered for 90 mins. If Bent had played I would hazard a guess we would not have had anywhere near this amount of the ball.

Key is getting a partner with Gabby, a proper number 10. Oh to be able to sign Paul Merson now or even Benito Carbone. Either would be perfect and could play equally with Gabby or Bent.

Just a point on Randy and the subject of his divorce. Do you really think a billionaire would not have ahd some form of agreement signed by his wife before the marriage that said she would get a tidy sum of money should they divorce but nothing like a large 5 of his wealth?

No way has he had to give more than 5% of his wealth away to her in my opinion.

IMHO there is no injury

IMHO it is a fall out with Mcleish, and a pretty big one too

Lets put it this way. If I could put a bet on him playing for another club come February 2012, I would be straight down to the bookies.

And if he does go it won't be because we want the money and I woudl fully expect us to get a repalcement/spend the moneyw e got in for him on improving the team.

Just my twopenneth worth.

Great pro, shame he won't be here come February....

Maybe he went to Khazakstan and has just agreed a deal to bring back John Gregory as manager?

Back on topic, Mr L is on his way back to Birmingham.

Not sure whether he is staying, or just on a gas and go.

Can yuo divulge where he has been please?

Afghanistan

ARMS deal witht he Taliban ;-)

He should have paid the money and got in David Moyes. He didn;t want to spend the money needed so went for McLeish in the deluded view that he was similar to Moyes but cheaper.

He is now seeign his plan fail miserably and it will cost him even more money to get out of it.

I think if he could, he would sell tomorrow.

Back on topic, Mr L is on his way back to Birmingham.

Not sure whether he is staying, or just on a gas and go.

Can yuo divulge where he has been please?

I hope the lot who lost the the noses on Saturday are out today and tomorrow running up and down the steps of the Holte End as punishment for losing to those rags down the road.

Should NEVER lose to them

Oh god, it isn't Lifelong Villa Fan Michael Neville is it?

Agh, after reading John's comments, I too have names like Michael Neville, Luke Comer, Nicolas padfield, floating before my eyes.

John Lerwill has destroyed sleep.

:shock:

Wasn't there a South American media baron linked at some point as well. Cisneros?

Comer Bros

Cisneros

Unknown, possibly German, very rich old Lady from Norwich

South African goldmine co

Michael Neville & the £20m a season investors

Nicholas Padfield. QC, unknown investor(s) and Michael Laudrup

Athole Still and unknow investors plus Sven

George Gillett

Randy Lerner

From memory those were all mentioned at one stage or another.

Sorry John it may be a farce to you and your well intentioned friend but it is football reality

Move on nothing to see here

Move on if you wish, but the financial world is to change big time.

But it will take 2 or 3 years before we see it.

Come back to me at the end of that period and tell me then what you've just said.

If that all happens then why would Randy need to sell?

Anybody who thinks that football will not continue to be about money is in cloud cuckoo land.

We will only get better with serious ivestment that unfortunately Randy does not have. Bring on the Qatari Royal Family!

How far could they reach with a nuke if they had one?

Went earlier this year. Can get very windy at night and if it is cloudy don't think you won't get sun burnt.

Very quiet resort so if you fancy nightlife you will need to get. In a taxi to Puerta del Carmen which is about 45 mins away

I think we'd get about 15 million for him, hasn't been recognised by England at all, if he gets some games he could possibly command 18 million. No more than that for me.

So Andy Carroll goes for £35m and you think Gabby isn't worth half his price?!

**** clueless!!

You think Carroll is worth £35 million do you?

Never in a month of Sundays but the point I was making is that Gabby is worth far more than £15m

I think we'd get about 15 million for him, hasn't been recognised by England at all, if he gets some games he could possibly command 18 million. No more than that for me.

So Andy Carroll goes for £35m and you think Gabby isn't worth half his price?!

**** clueless!!

Well John praise indeed!

The thing is, as you know full well from our exchanges at the time, I criticised Ellis long and loud on many many occasions for his poor stewardship of this club. For lack of investment, for poor communications, for treating the fans as mushrooms, for holding back the progress of the club, for aiming for mediocrity and not putting in place plans for us to compete at the top of the league etc etc etc

So why would I not now criticise Lerner for the same?Was it just Ellis that was open to this and Lerner is not merely because he is not Ellis?

I agree. Randy is quickly undoing all fo the good things he did to begin with and whetehr right or not is givign the perception of soemone who ahs lost interest and wants out.

At the moment i would settle for him taking the time to out minds at ease as to his continued commitment to the club. The longer we don;t see that then the more I will assume he is looking to sell.

I'd hope he is staying and is cmmitted for the long term. I would buy into us consolidating the wage bill and investing again from there albeit with more control than previous. With the right amount of luck and good management then I think we could still ahve relative success.

However if this isn't what he is planning then I'd prefer to know he is on the look out for a buyer.

John, not wishing to down play the work you have done on this at all. I do think though that our core support is bigger than you suggest. I am sure if we got relegated to the Chamipnship that our corwds would not drop below 25k

Fuse, I'm setting my stall based on some kind of fact.

When Villa went down in 1987, the figures did improve but simply because a good manager - Graham Taylor - was brought in. But the Saturday figures even then hovered between 19k and 25k at that point. The weekday attendances were down as far as 11k!!

What would happen now is what I guess you're really saying. Well, it depends. If there's not a manager that's appointed that gives rise to hope then I'd say your 25k would be very optimistic.

It rather depends on who is manager and if money is being made available.

The question was what is the core support. I'd say that 15k to 17k is still the figure I'd go for as the number of fans that would support their club through thick and thin. If there's a sign of some success, then 25k is possible.

That is my case, especially in the current economic climate, which I can't see improving in the next 2 or 3 years.

Just posted this in the Match forum but relevent to this thread.

Guy at work has just had a call off Villa and they are selling off tickets in the Holte Tomorrow, 4 tickets for £40! They must have had poor ticket sales.

I have seen adverts telling season ticket holders to sell their ticket if they dont come which kind of tells the story that even season ticket holders are not turning up as I know I am not sure if I am going toomorrow.

Problem is that I had a couple of spare tickets to the Albion game going for free and neither me or my mates could find any takers!

I am all for the club doing deals on tickets but are they not in danger here of really annoying season ticket holders who have paid full whack and yet are seeing almost every game now a £10 a seat deal?

Its a shame the club didn't think about doing a season ticket priced at £10 per game.

We've already sold £7.3m worth of club land to set off against some of the loan notes, does anybody want to bet against this happening again in the future?

Is that the land Ellis was trying to sell - for a Tesco Supermarket, but then planning permission was refused? There were 2 sites, weren't there - the land the old Asda was on round the back of the leisure centre and some where the coach park is.

It's a weird one, really - Ellis bought up, with the Club's money, a few bits of land, a long time ago, just because, I guess, he thought it was a good price. But then it largely sat there, unloved and unused. Though to be fair a long time ago the club owned the Leisure centre, but sold it on, it wasn't a money spinner at all, particularly once the basketball faded and moved.

What's a football club doing buying up land anyway - if not to use for playing or training or facilities, what use is it? Shouldn't the Club's money be out there on the pitch running around, or be put into facilities for players, or fans etc?

It's a worry potentially if the Club is having to sell off assets to pay off loans that were intended to be paid back from normal income, I suppose. Unsustainable debt is not a good thing at any level. Alternatively, if it's a case of land there's no need for, but which is worth money being disposed off to provide income, which is then used to pay off debt instead of selling players, then maybe that's not so bad.

So the land thing's not the issue, just something that raises questions as to

what the plan is to keep the club running. But not knowing what the plan is has been a thing that we've been wanting to know for most of the past 3 decades, with a couple of brief spells of information being given, first by Ellis when he floated the club on the Stock Market and had to. and then at the start of Randy's time.

Now we're back to being in the dark, and wondering what's going on.

I'm not sure Pete, but I don't think it was that. The sale was of "property under construction" which makes me think it wasn't just a random piece of land. Did we have anything that was being built on that could realistically be valued at £7m? Bit of Bodymoor perhaps?

Didn't Mark Ansell announce we were building some houses and apartments near to the ground at one stage? I seem to remember it but can't recall hearing anything after - maybe that was the land we have sold.

We've already sold £7.3m worth of club land to set off against some of the loan notes, does anybody want to bet against this happening again in the future?

Is that the land Ellis was trying to sell - for a Tesco Supermarket, but then planning permission was refused? There were 2 sites, weren't there - the land the old Asda was on round the back of the leisure centre and some where the coach park is.

It's a weird one, really - Ellis bought up, with the Club's money, a few bits of land, a long time ago, just because, I guess, he thought it was a good price. But then it largely sat there, unloved and unused. Though to be fair a long time ago the club owned the Leisure centre, but sold it on, it wasn't a money spinner at all, particularly once the basketball faded and moved.

What's a football club doing buying up land anyway - if not to use for playing or training or facilities, what use is it? Shouldn't the Club's money be out there on the pitch running around, or be put into facilities for players, or fans etc?

It's a worry potentially if the Club is having to sell off assets to pay off loans that were intended to be paid back from normal income, I suppose. Unsustainable debt is not a good thing at any level. Alternatively, if it's a case of land there's no need for, but which is worth money being disposed off to provide income, which is then used to pay off debt instead of selling players, then maybe that's not so bad.

So the land thing's not the issue, just something that raises questions as to

what the plan is to keep the club running. But not knowing what the plan is has been a thing that we've been wanting to know for most of the past 3 decades, with a couple of brief spells of information being given, first by Ellis when he floated the club on the Stock Market and had to. and then at the start of Randy's time.

Now we're back to being in the dark, and wondering what's going on.

That is the crux of the problem for me and I think that the longer this situation continues then the more I believe Randy wants out. Let's face it if he is still in it for the long run and he is keepign abreast of the fans frustrations he can surely see the need to communicate the plans and vision going forward.

Otherwise we should be very worried as I don't see an viable alternative to Randy appearing any time soon...

It has been proved in the past that the core support is 15k to 17k.

Perhaps some enterprising football would win the back more support.

Where it this proof John? My view would be that our core support is nearer to 25K.

Proof? I have just completed 18 months of detailed research in the 1945-2010 period to find many facts for my new book of which this is one.

If you go back to the early 80s, 15k to 17k was the figure that was attending Villa Park, not long after the Saunders years.

I also think that with a period of sustained success - 5-10 years then we could command crowds of 50-60K.

The fanbase is there I really believe but it to get big crowds you need trophies and star names.

Exactly. But just playing decent football will help to keep the crowds happy as a starter.

John, not wishing to down play the work you have done on this at all. I do think though that our core support is bigger than you suggest. I am sure if we got relegated to the Chamipnship that our corwds would not drop below 25k

It has been proved in the past that the core support is 15k to 17k.

Perhaps some enterprising football would win the back more support.

Where it this proof John? My view would be that our core support is nearer to 25K.

I also think that with a period of sustained success - 5-10 years then we could command crowds of 50-60K.

The fanbase is there I really believe but it to get big crowds you need trophies and star names.

In my opinion I would be more than happy to have Randy as our owner for many years to come but I think he needs to be more of a leader and share his vision for the club going forward. The longer he does not do this then the more alienated the fans become. I am not one fo those that is completey against the appointment of AM as I think he cna do a good job - if he is givne soem backing in the transfer windows over the enxt 12-18 months.

I am hoping that we are in a period of transition, that once we get rid of the deadowood and high earners next summer that we see Randy investing again but this tiem controlling the wage bill.

if we donlt see any of the above then Randy wants out and it will be just a matter of time before he sells up.

Wasn;t there talk that he had met Nicholas Padfield recently?

General K

Any update from you on Randy's statement and when we might see this? Personally I am concerned that Randy may no longer have the funds available to shore up the finances of the club and that this is behind the lack of incoming transfers this season. If this is the case then given the global economic situation I am sure the fans would understand, however the not knowing causes more concern.

Appreciate you are very busy but if you do get 5 mins to update us I would be grateful.