Philosopher

He clearly isn't sharp, but doesn't look far from it. A few more games and will will he be firing again.

I wouldn't write off Buendia or Zaniolo. They takes 2 seasons to properly come back from a cruciate ligament injuries. Plus adapting to a new country and league. I expect to see Zaniolo improve as the season progresses. 

Buendia has a long road back. I don’t believe he is top tier, but he has attributes that can help us. Plus he won't be sold until he is able to prove his fitness, so I expect to see him here next season.

Traore is a real wildcard, but we need consistent performers to compete at the highest level.

He really needed that!

How was that a yellow, wasn't even a foul this ref is terrible.

Dendonker is looking clumsy tonight!

I'm already confident Marsahall is better than Olsen

28 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

I think that for a Philosopher you thought too hard about it. 

I'm glad to hear that!

I'm wasn't insinuating antisemitism, but rather the bad blood between Israel and Egypt (Israel invaded Egypt and stole some land).

What do people think of Oscar Gloukh of RB Salzburg, who we have been linked to? 

I remember him being very impressive in the u20 euros a couple of years ago.

Not sure what Swaris would make of us signing an Israeli though!

Martinez 80m  vv 100m
Cash 30m   vv 30m
Konsa 50m  vv 50m
Torres 70m  vv 100m
Carlos 25m  vv 25m
Mings 20m vv 20m
Digne 15m vv 25m
Moreno 15m vv 25m
Ramsey 80m vv 100m
Dendoncker 10m vv 10m
McGinn 50m vv 80m
Kamara 70m vv 100m
Luiz 110m vv 110
Tielemans 50m vv 50 
Bailey 75m vv 100m
Diaby 75m vv 100m
Buendia 25m vv 25m
Watkins 80m vv 120m
Duran 20m

These are my realistic valuations. With their value to Villa (vv) next to them.

Players like McGinn, Watkins, and Kamara are far more valuable then the price we could get for them.

Incredible team performance. 

Bailey was unplayable.

McGinn bossed them.

Defence never gave them a sniff.

Kamara and Luiz were very assured.

Tielemens was all over them.

Watkins always an outlet.

Just so tidy with the ball. Playing out was spot on. 

I always believed he was capable of this. 

He has now firmly answered all his doubters with his quality.

Fabulous performance from start to substitution! 

He had a poor game yesterday. However we can't blame the defenders for everything. I find it no coincidence that our right side struggled so badly with Kamara not playing.

Had Kamara played I'm sure we would've faired better defensively. Him usually drops into that RCB position to turn our back 4 into a five. This definitely impacted the amount of protection our defense usually has, as with as the normal organisation. 

BTW winning a cup is far from guaranteed. Regardless of our intent. This hypothetical scenario is complete BS really.  There are no guarantees. We just have to fight hard in every competition, and Unai has to manage the squad and game load well. 

Ultimately the leagues gets prioritised simply because where we finish is what we deserve. It's a fair comparison come the end of the season. We could go out the City in the third round of the FA Cup. It's all about the luck of the draw.

19 hours ago, Don_Simon said:

Reality is qualifying for the champions league means we didn't win anything.

Reality is also, (in the world of this poll), if we win the FA Cup, we've won something. An actual trophy. I've never seen us do that and it means so much more than coming fourth in the league. 

I have seen us win a cup. It's all in the past. I want to see us become a team like the Man U under fergie. I want us to create a new legacy!

23 minutes ago, picicata said:

I get your reasoning but I would bet that Leicester fans are happier to have won the FA cup than they are with the memories of their failed CL runs. I suspect Leeds fans would tell you they would swap their CL runs for an FA Cup win.

Qualifying for the CL guarantees a single run at the competition, nothing else. It doesn't guarantee long term success or even short term. Winning the FA Cup would be part of our history forever.

Neither of those club had a manager as good, or owners are wealthy as we have!

Leicester had their best players gobbled up, and Leeds got themselves in massive debt. Leicesters title win was seen as a fluke (and it was), they didn't have the strength in depth to compete in the league and Europe plus had to do without the likes of Mahrez and Kante whom left for exceptional careers at City and Chelsea respectively. It underlines my point in the Doug thread about the importance of keeping your best players.

With the owner and Manager we have champions league would reap huge rewards.

Champions league is just too important to our clubs development. So champions league. 

But I also believe the FA Cup is a bit of a monkey on our back. Ever since trophy was stolen in the 50s we haven't won it. I feel like winning the FA Cup would usher in a new period of success for Aston Villa.

The ECL however is the trophy I feel we have the best chance of winning as almost all of the side in it are team we 'should' be able to beat. 

Can I be greedy and say all 3?!?!

4 hours ago, Shaun Teales Moustache said:

We'll never be a top team if we sell our best players, so I think these guys are untouchable:

Martinez

Watkins

Luiz

Kamara

 

These guys are probably not on the market (either due to injuries or recently signed, and all top players):

Moreno

Torres

Carlos

Mings

Tielemans

Buendia

Diaby

Duran

 

These guys, everyone would be happy to sell, but if there was any market, they'd probably be gone already:

Olsen 

Chambers

Dendonker 

Traore

 

So, if we were to sell a player/players to balance the books, I think it would probably be one or two of these -

Cash (~30m) - Valuable, international but homegrown, modern fullback that loads of teams would appreciate that he will run all day and give his all in attack and defence, but he's not a great fit for the systems we play. We need a new RB anyway, could target both an attacking and defensive RB instead of a tweener like Cash, and still probably turn a profit.

Digne (~15m) - Wages seem to be a bit of an issue for FFP, and it's not great having both LBs over 30 and having had injury issues. It would require an Ings like business decision to move on though. He's a valuable member of the squad, but there might be better uses for his 3.5m p/w. 

Konsa (~35m) - If he gets a look in with England (which he does deserve despite my reservations about him as a player), his value will skyrocket. If Harry Maguire is a 75m player, I'd easily take 90m for Konsa. He's good but flawed and if Mings recovers, Konsa is an OK defensive RB or else on the bench because Mings and Torres are both better by a distance, and Carlos is also infinitely better on the ball, if he can ever get back to staying fit and being a solid defender imo.

Ramsey (~60m) - young, English, scores goals, so probably worth at least 70m. Yet up to the time he got injured, I was still expecting Aaron to be the better player. Aaron has better technique, Jacob has better physicality. Aaron just never seemed to make the physical jump that Jacob did. Jacob is a quality player, but he's not a Grealish yet and I don't think he has another jump like that in him. Hopefully he'll kick into another gear, but the money he would bring in would probably fund a whole transfer window, and we haven't really missed him being out, even with Buendia also out. 

Bailey (~35m) - seems crazy to contemplate selling him now that he looks just like the player we thought we were signing. He was out of position up front and is now statistically the most productive player in the league iirc, playing exactly where he wants. If we sell him now, another team gets a bargain. He's currently better than Nico Williams may ever be, which illustrates how hard it will be to actually improve that position if we sell him.

McGinn (~50m) - the one I'd least like to let go, but his return to magnificence means he's valuable. His age and the squad depth at his position mean he's vulnerable, so with Tielemans and Ramsey in the squad, he's also ultimately somewhat replaceable. 50m would probably be too hard to turn down, but it would still hurt if he went for that. Ramsey is worth more on the market, but McGinn is more important to the team right now, so if we want to target Champions League Ramsey would be the smarter sell imo. 

 

I would definitely not be contemplating selling Konsa, Ramsey, or Bailey. 

In Konsa's case he is 26 so has his best years ahead of him, his alternative is 30 year old Carlos. Carlos for me is still adapting, and will be starting to lose pace in another year or two. Makes far more sense to be willing to let Carlos leave (if the right offer came in) than Konsa. Throw in our highline, and the proposed clear daylight change in the offside rule, pace at the back is a must and Konsa has that.

Bailey you said it yourself! Who can we get for the same money or less to replace him, that we can be confident are an improvement? I can't think of anyone. 

Ramsey is one of our own. He is more than good enough for us. He is incredibly versatile. Cm, am, lm, rm anywhere across the midfield bar dm he can play.  His ball carrying from deep is the best in our squad. His only weakness for me is his concentration when defending can lapse, and his tackling needs improvement. Otherwise, he's got a bit of everything. Athleticism, passing, dribbling, press resistance, good finisher, hard worker. He's got his best years ahead of him. Not one good reason to sell unless a 'stupid' money bid is made. And I mean more than 60 - 70 million.

With McGinn if the summer arrives and a 50 million bid comes in we have to consider it. Simply because he'll be 30 with a game that relies on his energy levels, robustness, and ability to work box to box. All this diminishes once one passes 30. He is highly likely to diminish as a player come 32, 33, so cashing in while we can isn't necessarily a bad thing. Having said that as long as he's good enough I'd love for him to stay a Villa player.

10 minutes ago, Folski said:

So what we actually need to do is trim the wage bill and not have any passengers on it. That and increase Revenue.

It just makes no sense for me to sell Luiz or Martinez to allow the club to progress, some might think thats short sighted but I don't think I've seen better players in their positions in my life following Villa.

 

You sir are right. It's incredibly hard for a team outside the champions league to source players of their quality. So you keep for as long as you can.

6 hours ago, DJBOB said:

It's true and while we all love Dougie - there's really no player that is worth 100M so if there's a buyer out there, from a pure value standpoint, we would have to think about it. And on the reverse, I'd be fuming if we bought anyone for 100M. It's just bad business. Look at the list below and I hardly think these are selling clubs.

• Neymar sold from Barcelona to PSG at age 25
• Coutinho sold from Liverpool to Barcelona at age 25
• Pogba sold from Juventus to United at age 23
• Bale sold from Spurs to Madrid at age 24
• Ronaldo sold from United to Madrid at age 24
• Suarez from Liverpool to Barcelona at age 27

And I can't recall every instance, but I don't think players downed tools at every point.

We shouldn't be looking to sell, but if someone is willing to buy for Luiz for 100m+, we should entertain it and restrengthen. Villa will need an army of depth for UCL qualifying for years to come and 100M for one player will go a long way to getting that.

Neymar cost 200m, Coutinho 145m, Spurs have only been in top 4 for a couple of seasons when Bale was sold. Juve needed the cash. Ronaldo had been trying go to Real for 2 seasons. Suarez was also throwing his tou out the pram. All the sale mentioned also were all top foreign clubs. So it proves the point I was making. 

We shouldn't be selling our best players to the teams we are trying catch. And if we do it's because our hand was forced and we get as much money for them as possible. 100m is only enough to enter negotiations. 

Regardless of whether any player is worth it, the market dictates the value, not common sense unfortunately.

6 hours ago, QldVilla said:

Well Chelsea spent a billion pound and still a show. You still need the quality manager and buy in from the players.

That's irrelevant!

Just now, DJBOB said:

While true, we do not yet have the finances of City and Liverpool built on state money or years and years of competing at the top. 
 
Those are all good points but we are not there yet and unless we break FPP or get better lawyers, we will have to sell some players and it will be players important to us. 

We may have to. My point is that It should be a last resort (in regards to our best players). 

25 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

It doesn’t have to be one or the other.

City, Liverpool, Madrid, Bayern, et al have all sold even some of their top players. 
 
But the key is using the money to identify and replace them. 
 
I think the fear is that we end up in a Grealish swapped with aggregate situation. Look back at the Grealish leaving thread at the time and the majority did not want him to leave but now you have people posting in the McGinn thread that it’s for the best that Jack left. 
 
We shouldn’t be willing to give him away but this idea that we absolutely should not entertain 100M for Luiz isn’t good business to further the squad. It shouldn’t be easy but in the long run, it should be considered. 
 
Selling for 100m doesn’t mean we’re a selling club…as long as we can replace him. 

The top club sell on their own terms. They can replace top player with top player far easier than we can. We can't compete with the stage (champions league), the wages and the pull of those clubs. 

In addition Liverpool for example sold Fabinho and Henderson in the summer. It wasn't because they could resist the pull of Saudi Arabia. It was because they were past their best and the money was far more than their worth as premier league players.

Liverpool kept Salah, because wanted to keep him. I don’t see any club prising Van Djilk away. Same with City. PSG been after Bernando Silva for years, he's still at city. 

The top clubs sell top players when they become liabilities, have disputes with an established manager, or when they are aging and will need replacing anyway! 

Not because they get offered a 100 million for their best player. They say no or 300m. Not 100m that's great thanks!

12 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

I think the problem is too many are conditioned into believing players will be attracted by the leap to a bigger club. Historically... or over the last few decades that has been somewhat true. The difference with then and now is it's not a really a leap anymore with our current position, owners, status and more importantly manager. I think we are dealing with a completely different club mindset now to even 6 months ago. Not a chance Unai or Monchi let DL leave when he's integral to our current trajectory. I don't think Dougie will want to go anyway because he will undoubtedly see the bigger picture himself and realise he's a huge part of it. 

I think he sees and loves the club in the same way Martinez does, he brought in to the journey when he arrived and understands his last stop for Villa has a long way to go before he reaches his destination with us. He definitely won't be leaving in January and my guess is the club will start discussing terms for a new deal before next summer which will be more reflective of his standing within the team. 

There is a big change happening in the PL with teams like ourselves, Newcastle and to an extent Brighton changing the status quo. The top 6 isn't the top 6 anymore, but the top 8-9 and being traditionally in that pack of clubs we've as good a chance as anyone of playing CL in the next couple of years and potentially challenging for the title or trophies. Players will see this and then add the lure of Unai etc, players like Dougie will want to stay and others will want to come and join the journey. 

 

I think with the and manager we have persuading Luiz to stay is far easier than persuading Jack to stay at that time.  The club seem primed to compete for top 4 and in Europe. Our position us much stronger now than before. 

This idea that seems to be floating that we should drop our panties as soon as 100 million is flashed is embarrassing to me (I'm not talking about you btw). If we were to let go of such a talismanic figure without a fight it sends a bad message. To us the fans in regards to the ambition of the club. The players that want to succeed with Villa. As well as the players that want to use Villa as a stepping stone. It undermines what we are trying to achieve.

Such wheeling and dealing inevitably leads to lots of players in and out, and threatens the great environment being fostered.

Wolves, Brighton, Southampton are stark examples of what happens if we prize money over on field progress. Granted they lack the infrastructure, ownership and fan base Villa have so are forced the operate in that manner. 

We may have our hand forced, but if we are serious about being a top club, we have to fight tooth and nail for our best players. Simple. as. that.

55 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Nobody is saying let him go easily. To let him go in Summer would need to be £100m given the prices that have been paid for others. Plus selling to a direct rival (which is anyone in Big 7 that isn't Man City) would be undesirable.

I think summer 2025 if Luiz wants to move on and we haven't managed to Qualify for CL yet we would look to sell him in same way Spurs did with Kane. 

What I want us to have done by then is move Dendoncker on and have replaced him. Thus giving us another CM option that Emery trusts. 

Come the summer he could be worth more. For me we should outright refuse to sell in January. Luiz should be able to accept this. In the summer if we have qualified for the champions league, 120 million if not more. If not and he is demanding a move in the summer then begrudgingly accept 100m.