Philosopher

Immense today! Gave them nightmares in the first half.

 

Anyone notice that little skip he does before shooting/crossing. What is that about? He does it a lot. I know he's unorthodox anyway and not a natural footballer (cliche but true).

 'Not a natural footballer' can be said about 95 percent of premier league players.  I would say it better to say late developer. Really only players like Silva, Cazorla, Ozil , Mata and Hazard are naturals most players have got to the stage they are through tens of thousands of hours with a football at their feet as opposed to a out of the ordinary natural  aptitude, its their passion for playing the game thats got them where they rather than innate ability.. 

Gabby can actually play some really nice passes sometimes, I occassionally find myself saying **** was that Gabby.  His crossing is good (on his right foot, though he is good at drilling them across the six yard box on his left), The cross for Benteke's goal tonight was lovely. He can shoot with both feet and has even learned to dribble, as well as knock the ball past opponents and he is decent in the air for a player of his height. The technical side of his game has steadily improved since MON left.  His touch is still hit and miss though! Every season where he gets a run of games he shows improvements in his game, As a player he is still developing and with probably do so until he hit his early thirties.

 

The diving is disgraceful, but quite frankly thats modern football. We make such a big deal out it here in Britain, but abroad they just see it as part of the game! That's why us brits are always on the receiving end of it. We need to get over it and do what they do in the rest of the world and train their players in how to dive properly. The only way you can get this out of the game is to bring in TV replays, and other technology. Some kind of appeals system for potential game changing incidents should be brought in. If Suarez played for us we would love him, because not only is he extremely entertaining to watch, he is a player that will try almost anything to give his team the edge, he also works his arse off. Still he's a cheating word removed!

Total bollocks. The answer to a lowered bar is not to try and get under it. Diving needs eliminating, not accepting.

 

The only way it can be eliminated it is through TV replays and other technology.  Until then we should make the best use of it, its a part of the game, it has been for years and in spain, italy and south america it is considered a skill.

The diving is disgraceful, but quite frankly thats modern football. We make such a big deal out it here in Britain, but abroad they just see it as part of the game! That's why us brits are always on the receiving end of it. We need to get over it and do what they do in the rest of the world and train their players in how to dive properly. The only way you can get this out of the game is to bring in TV replays, and other technology. Some kind of appeals system for potential game changing incidents should be brought in. If Suarez played for us we would love him, because not only is he extremely entertaining to watch, he is a player that will try almost anything to give his team the edge, he also works his arse off.  Still he's a cheating word removed! 

 

I have to admit I've never heard of him, but he sounds decent enough. Would prefer a permanent deal though, instead of these rinky dink loan moves...

 

he's not making it at chelsea, he'll be available for around £4m in the summer, if he enjoys it here he'll see the light and finally move away from chelsea's bench, if he's good here then we have assurances after buying 2 duds

 

its a good move for everyone

 

i cant see walker repeating itself here, bertrand is 24, chelsea are likely to buy shaw, who is younger and less experienced, if that doesnt tell him his time at chelsea is up then nothing will

 

Yeah but Man U also need a left back, So Chelsea aren't nailed on there.

We don't use left midfielders.  Delph, Westwood, Sylla, KEA are all central.  We don't really use left wingers.  Gabby's a modified striker and even at that I don't think his place is under threat.  So Bertrand is either here to replace an underperforming leftback or we've decided to change our system to accommodate a new type of player & position.  I think the former is much more likely.  It helps our flexibility that we can change to something new if the need arises - because I think both Lowton & Bacuna could play a simliar role on the right - but for me we've signed a leftback.  Simple as that.

Delph can play left midfield though! Also Tonev has been used primarily as a left winger, and Gabby started the season on the left wing.  The only natural winger in the squad is Albrighton and I would love to see him putting in crosses for Benteke with Gabby following up on the back stick. Give use Weimann as an impact player for when Albrighton tires at the 60 - 70 minute mark until he finds some form.

Guzan

Lowton Okore Vlaar Clark Bertrand

El Ahmadi Westwood Delph

Benteke Agbonlahor

 

OR Guzan

Lowton Vlaar Clark Luna

Albrighton Westwood Delph Bertrand

Benteke Agbonlahor

 

i dont think he'll be a solid LB, more an attacking LB or LM who can help Luna out, if he's short term i think he's here to aid the current LB's not stick them in reserves

You missed

 Guzan

Lowton Vlaar Clark Bertrand

Bacuna Westwood Delph

Albrighton (or Weimann form permitting)  Benteke Gabby (My favourite particularly for home games)

Guzan

Bacuna Vlaar Clark Bertrand

Westwood             Delph

             Playmaker?

Albrighton (or weimann) Gabby

            Benteke

Point is really he gives us options, we are finally able to play two genuinely quick fullbacks in Bertrand and Bacuna, which is essential if you intend to have them attack as well as defend. Lambert is flexible in formations and how he uses players.  Flexible players with be used flexibly.  Like Bacuna who has played RB, WB, CM, and RM for us in half a seasons worth of games.

Also guys remember Lambert prefers to attack, problem is currently he doesn't have the creative talent in the squad to play that way.  If we get a no 10 then we will see some attacking football.

 

 

 

So Lambert has simply set us up to play to that strength. Defend deep draw the opponents on to us and hit them on the counter

I believe we are set up to play on the counter however this does not excuse the aimless long balls, the shocking awareness and composure of our players and the failure to do a lot of basic stuff on the pitch.

VILLA namely the OWNER, CEO and MANAGER have taken a LONG TERM approach to rebuilding the squad and moving up the table, because to owner is not willing the be the clubs sugar daddy, he wants the club to stand on it own two feet! There is nothing wrong with this!

In theory no, however we have no real clue what the owners intentions really are.

Lambert's record with transfers is solid

Sorry that's rubbish.

In your post you've defended the owners approach, the players we've signed and the manager, so how come its been so awful then?

 

Back the manager, back the team and at the end of the season reassess things then, because this young team needs the fans backing, how can they be expected to perform at home when they know they will get booed! Its embarassing to be a Villa fan when I see that shit!

 

Sorry completely disagree. The players and management have given us nothing at home this season but pathetic performances (Man City second half as the exception). People shell out a load of time and money to watch, quite frankly, utter rubbish week after week with no improvement. I don't boo and never have, but was on the cusp yesterday after watching such a diabolical performance against a side down the bottom of league 1.

The fans have been incredibly patient with the team, it's about time they gave something back because if it goes on like this, ticket sales are going to be vastly reduced. Call me a bad fan or whatever but it's how I feel. I support the Aston Villa, not Paul Lambert and his coaching staff.

The fans deserve a lot better.

 

Do you think the fans will get good performances if they boo their team every week!

Those player really aren't that young anymore to have that excuse. It's not like they're 18 or 19 year olds who are in their debut season.

The team that played yesterday only had two players with over 2 seasons of regular first team premier league football.  Clark, Weimann, Delph were only bit part players until Lambert arrived and Albrighton after that firt season has spent most of his time on the injury table! Helenius is 21, Bacuna 20 or 21, Westwood 22, Baker 23, Luna 23, Lowton 24, Clark 24, Albrighton 24, they are nowhere near the end of their growth as players! People need to calm themselves and look at not just the result of the last month, but everything Lambert is have to juggle, and the restrictions in place. FORM IS TEMPORARY remember!

 

So Lambert has simply set us up to play to that strength. Defend deep draw the opponents on to us and hit them on the counter

I believe we are set up to play on the counter however this does not excuse the aimless long balls, the shocking awareness and composure of our players and the failure to do a lot of basic stuff on the pitch.

VILLA namely the OWNER, CEO and MANAGER have taken a LONG TERM approach to rebuilding the squad and moving up the table, because to owner is not willing the be the clubs sugar daddy, he wants the club to stand on it own two feet! There is nothing wrong with this!

In theory no, however we have no real clue what the owners intentions really are.

Lambert's record with transfers is solid

Sorry that's rubbish.

In your post you've defended the owners approach, the players we've signed and the manager, so how come its been so awful then?

 

Unfortunately aimless long ball and a lack of composure is also an effect of dropping deep and conceding possession, but we don't have the creativity and awareness in our midfield to play differently.  Its not about choice its about necessity at this stage of the team building! Lambert is clearly a manager that has a philosophy to hardworking, attacking, high tempo football as that's what he implemented at Norwich over the course of 3 seasons. At Villa his job over the last 18 months has been to not only build a new squad but of load the older players and highest earners, and cut cost at the same time! Its a MASSIVE undertaking, and the job still only just over half done.  We still have some high earners that aren't performing on our books, the squad is still thin and the first team still lacks a bit of quality, but we are in a comfortable midtable position.

We KNOW what the owners intentions are its clear from what the club has done! Cut the wage bill and shift the aging players at the club, bring in young players an build for the future, while maintaining our premier league status, those are the OBVIOUS aims that the manager is working towards!  Its not rocket science!

Benteke is a fantastic singing, Vlaar has been a good buy, so has Westwood and Lowton. Bacuna looks promising, Kozak was scoring goals before the broken leg and Okore was a massive transfer coup for the club, unfortunately he is out for the season.  All of those players except Okore and Kozak (due primarily to injuries) are worth more than what we paid for them, solid business, not great, but we just don't have the resources and stature to attract the best young players, Lamberts has been tasked with finding hidden rough diamonds, which is no easy task. Lambert is having to do everything the hard and yet we have a better league and financial position then when he arrive, he deserves credit for what he has done so far. Its short sighted, quick to judge people like yourself, that are making his incredibly hard job that much harder for him.  Back the manager, back the team and at the end of the season reassess things then, because this young team needs the fans backing, how can they be expected to perform at home when they know they will get booed! Its embarassing to be a Villa fan when I see that shit!

 

 

Oh no, here come the STABILITY POLICE again!

 

Oh no, here comes the reactionaries again!

 

3 Years of stability and it's still crap and Lambert is no Fergie.

 

Actually Lambert has only been in charge about 18 months, and how do you know Lambert is no Fergie, the only way we find that out is by giving him more time! At least another 18 months, if we aren't a top half team getting regular wins at home then we can talk about sacking Lambert, right now sacking him does more harm than good.  What we are seeing isn't good enough, but the seeds have been sown and are starting to sprout, so to pull them up now just means more years of crap that is not good enough for Aston Villa FC.  We need to endure this for another 18 months, because the alternative is years more of this rather than months.

I feel we can cope with the loss, He clearly hasn't adapt to the league yet, constantly been out muscled (not good for a target man) and yet he has a goal every other game ratio! Seems like a natural goalscorer to me I also think he has decent technique, just needs to get a bit stronger and improve his link up play and we would have a top quality striker!

What I want to know is who broke his leg?

We look a lot better with Benteke linking things in the final third! Looking really threatening!

 

 

 

 

Again, you're creating a hyperbolic argument that nobody has stated so you can have a moan. Nobody has even partway suggested that they will turn into world class players; rather that it's logical that you should give a player at least a season before writing them off as dross. New signings will have good games and bad games. It's the nature of the beast.

 

Are you seriously this dense? He 'got us to being a bottom half team'? What on Earth are you on about? We were already a bottom half team. Lambert hasn't dragged us down there.

 

You haven't answered my question in the slightest. We are playing narrower to stifle the middle of the park and from the increased amount of clean sheets, I'd say it's working. Tactically is an area where he still seems to be naive and frustrating, but he gets it right just as often as he gets it wrong IMO. He doesn't seem to have a middle ground. Too many people playing out of position? Who?

 

And I ask again. If Lambert goes, who could realistically come in and work under the same restrictions while fulfilling the expectations of our fans?

 

It's possible to get a good idea about the quality of the signings from the almost half a season already played. It's clear that some of the fundamental skills of decent footballers are missing in a number of the recent signings.

 

Lambert has got us to being a bottom half team as did Mcleish. You seem to be struggling with that! He hasn't got us to being a top half team as he?

Right, so we're playing narrower to stifle the middle of the park. OK so spoiling tactics - remind me who's net the last 5 goals have gone in? So not only are we playing anti football it's not working. Thanks for that!

As for people playing out of position: Baker at left back, Bacuna at right back to name a few...

As for a replacement please see previous answer.

 

Narrow is to play to OUR strengths silly! To make the most of our strikers abilities! Well if both Bennet and Luna are injured who you gonna play at Left back, and Lowton was a liability and Bacuna we very good a right back for a few games, at least better than Lowton was! McLeish got us to 17th! So actually last season was a very small improvement (16th) and so far we are 11th only one place from the top half of the table! And all this while reducing the wage bill! Mcleish signed 4 players for Villa, Given, N'Zogbia, Hutton and Holman! So no improvement really? You are either really dumb, or just really deluded!

 

 

 

 

Complete writing players off after how many games in a new country/new league?

 

Ha don't change the goalposts now. You CLEARLY state, 'Lambert has got us to being a bottom half team' when he hasn't. We were there before. You're wrong.

 

So you think Lambert is 100% to blame? Because you clearly think a new manager would be able to come in and instantly change the situation. I wish I could view life that simply. Would make things far easier.

 

OK Luna is going to turn into Carlos next season and suddenly get past strolling pace and learn the basics of defensive positioning!

 

Lambert has got us to being a bottom half team - the same achievement as our last sacked manager McLeish.

 

I think Lambert is a big part of the problem.  No width, no supply, poor mix of players, poor tactics and playing too many people out of position.

 

Funny as when he managed Norwich they played open attacking football with plenty of width! The fact is you play in a style which best suits the players at your disposal! We are playing without natural wingers with Weimann and Gabby wide, so playing Narrow plays to their strengths! It squeezes the space in the middle of the pitch, making it difficult for teams to play through the middle (but also makes keeping possession difficult unless you have very technically adept players comfortable playing under pressure). We sit deep and look to hit teas on the break with Gabby's pace and Benteke's height and strength. The fact is Lambert's tactics are spot on, they're perfect for our preferred 11. We don't have lots of creative, skillful and technically adept midfielders and attackers so its pointless the play as if we do. 

 

Foreign manager for me, like that Southampton guy. Different style of football completely, instead of this Irish Scottish dull stuff we have been getting since O'Neil.

Is it a possibility that the style of football that 'Southampton guy' has them playing could be in part due to the quality of players at his disposal, more than the fact he's not Scottish?

 

I would say its as much to do with the fact they were playing a similar style before he even took over. Southampton were playing attractive, exciting attacking football under Adtkins, now they have a bit more tactical astuteness to go with that!

 

 

 

 

Can't really be bothered to go on with this any longer, really. It's fairly subjective if you think particular players are giving it their all. I'll weigh up the stats at the end of the season and if we've amassed more points than everyone else from losing positions I'll say fair enough but I just can't see a squad that has any more desire or fight than any one else. In fact the last few games have shown the opposite. Not that I'm not saying players aren't trying, just not at all seeing this never say die business. 

Well my point was purely in your post about not being the comeback kings. Statistically speaking at this point in time we are. You can't move the goalpost to the end of the season to judge something that doesn't suit your argument now. 

 

Because I don't see that stat as being the be all and end all of proof that the squad is hugely united, with an incredible desire to never lose a football game and fighting for everything, particularly after just sixteen games. Is that what you're really seeing in the performances? I'm not seeing it, that's all. That was the original point I was responding to. 

 

That's fair and I agree to an extent, but I think that stat shows we perhaps have a little more character than we give credit for.

 

I agree about the character and that's why I said that I believe the squad is mentally stronger this season. 

 

You have to also look at the opposition! Arsenal (top of the league), Man City (probably best team in the league), Baggies away (from 2 down in a derby), these are impressive comebacks no doubt about it! Then there are plucky defeats to Liverpool and Chelsea. Battling victory over a team better than us (Southampton) after being pegged back twice.  Even the Cardiff win we weren't dominated for large periods, but came out with a win.  We win matches thanks to clinical finishing and hardworking combative displays, if one of these 3 factors are missing we lose, because there is a lack of real quality in the team.  Only 3 players right now would get into the first team of a top 10 team the rest would be squad players! Having said that most of them are young and will improve.  Take Clark awful last season, looks decent this season. Delph is looking like a quality midfielder! On the flip side Benteke, Lowton and Weimann have yet to rediscover last seasons form.  At no point this season have all our best players been in good form at the same time.  Gabby's been good in parts, Benteke started solidly, and Delph has come into his own and Vlaar has been excellent, but otherwise we have yet to click, but we are 11th! The main reason for this is that we have battled away and not let our heads drop!

As for wages, we still have Ireland, Bent, Given and N'zogbia getting over 50k per week each (none of which were signed by Lambert) for doing sweet FA! Get them off the books and we have scope to sign two or three quality players!

Seriously I feel the same about the football at home, its awful, but beggars (and we are beggars right now) can't be choosers! Lambert is doing very well with what is at his disposal. He has taken an aging relegation fodder team to a tough young midtable team. Thats CLEAR progress!

 

We have a great togetherness and never say die attitude in the squad, 

Wow. I can't say I agree with this at all. Although I believe the team is mentally stronger this year, I don't really see anything that makes us particularly stand out as a hugely unified squad, all fighting and pushing in the right direction, throwing their bodies on the line for the manager. I'm just seeing a team that can, every so often work reasonably hard in some games for 45 minutes at the most. 

 

Really! So coming from behind to best arsenal, coming from 2 down to draw at the hawthorns, hell take a look at all our wins points this season, they were all down to hard work and never giving up.  Granted the teams attacking play is for the most part incoherent and we still make too many silly mistakes, but the spirit and mentallity is spot on! We are the comeback kings of league so far this season and that s not an accident!

We appear to have gone from wasting money on expensive flops to wasting money on cheap flops. Kind of ironic.

But the one big success would make back almost all the money spent by Lambert in one go!

Lambert is doing exactly what he needs to do right now! He has got us midtable when we were fighting relegation last season.  We have a great togetherness and never say die attitude in the squad, and he has done it while drastically cutting costs and taking an aging relegation fodder team to a young midtable side.  The REALITY is that losing to MAN UTD is no shame at all! This may be a transitional Man U team but they are still a team full of quality. Hell Rooney gets paid more than our entire first team! 

Lambert is a GREAT manager in the making IMO what he has done so far at Villa has been very risky, brave and difficult, but the green shoots of progress are there. So we lost two games in a row, big deal, we were always going to have a sticky patch, thats to nature of this league! BTW look at Fulhams squad they have some quality players and Berbertov turned in a top drawer performance against us with our captain and best defender out and Benteke devoid of confidence!

The over reactions on here are ridiculous. Put a quality winger and midfield playmaker in this team and you have a first team capable of winning a majority of our home games! Unfortunately such players cost big money, which he hasn't been given.  The bullshit argument about him having spent nearly 22m in two transfer windows, when that will include signing on fees and agents fees, plus then you take onto account the number of players he brought in and the number of players shown the door is a very small amount.  Take 8 off our first choice 11 are Lambert recruits or players promoted from the reserves/development squads.  Lambert has signed 15 players for a NET spend of less then 30m. That's an average of 2m per player!

I think its simply that the lad isn't fit enough to start games. He also is probably not used to our counter attacking style.  I think he will come good personally, from the little I've seen of him he looks like one of our best player in term of skill and technique.

Last seasons experience has really galvanized this squad.  The mental strenght we have displayed all season is incredible.  It doesn't matter how under the cosh we are, what the score line is, or who the opponents we just keep working hard and playing for eachother, its so encouraging for me as a fan. If we could add a bit of class and creativity to what we have now we would be a tactically superior version of Villa under MON. We would still lack the squad depth to compete for the top places beyond March though!  Lambert could be building something really special here. You can have quality and still get relegated, but if you have spirit and togetherness you can beat anyone.

On to the game, goals aside we were poor.  Couldn't string a pass together, go overran down the flanks, and Kozak was absolute shite until he scored.  I think he is that type of player!  If we have a strong technical midfielder with a good passing range we would be getting results at home and generally not getting so overran in games.  Credit to southampton though, they keep the ball well, Lambert and Lallana are quality players and we were lucky that both Scheinderlin and Rameriz were both out, and they were on the back of two defeats.

None of the Villa player stood really, Delph got MOM just because he battled well, won a few free kicks and scored a pearler. Gabby ran his socks off and scored a proper pacey strikers type of goal, got no service.  I was shocked when in the 50 something minute Kozak finally won a header! I really hate this 5-3-2, but its effective for getting men behind the ball and suffocating the middle of the park!

 

It' hard for me to understand how certain"lesser" clubs seem to be able to pay better wages and attract a "higher quality" of player. Baffling.

because they're in the speculation phase. They spend more than they earn to attempt to make more money and then pay the money back to the owner. The exact phase we went through 3 years ago. Eventually some of them will succeed and some will fail, the failures will have to reconcile and consolidate like we are the moment, while we spend again to attempt to move forward, albeit at a slower pace than last time.

 

Well I would say it because we spent outside our means for the MON years and now the club need to concentrate on getting our finances to the point where we break even, because the previous accounts showed we were still spending more than we were making.  Also Randy has spent an alot of money on the ground and facilities and is still spending in this area.  The north stand redevelopment is also something worth considered as it would be silly to spend a lot of money on that when we can't even break even and finacial fair play rules are in force! My honest opinion is once all the expensive deadwood is gone and the club start making a profit spending will increase but not so much as to bring back into a deficit.  We still have to pay those loans from Randy back too.

The accounts state net tranfer cost.  Therefore I am pretty sure this would include signing on fees and agents fees, and possibly wages too, not to mention all the legal fees for the drawing up of contracts. Also most of tranfer deal have performance related add-ons so if for instance Sunderland were due and extra 4 million from Bent making a certain number of appearrance I would have thought that would've been included on that net transfer spend for when the add on clause was activated!