Awol

This has to be the most circular thread in history.

'Labour have **** up'

'Oh yeah, what would you have done then?'

'Various answers including full nationalisation'

'People would never accept it'

'Hang on it's already been done, we own the debt but have no control'

'well what would you have done'...

Talk about pissing into the wind. The interesting thing is that even at the political level alternatives have been offered, for instance the 50 billion loan guarantee scheme for small businesses that are viable but can't get credit. Labour have adopted a 3 billion pound scheme now but can't bring themselves to take on an idea from 'them' so instead reinforce a failing policy for political reasons. Well thanks very much, trash the country to prove you are stubborn clueless c units. Excellent. When 2010 comes Labour are going to the naughty step for a generation. Just like the last time.

Weren't some of these guys murdered by fellow miners*? If so how does that make people feel?

*Serious question because I'm not sure.

If not how does it make you feel to ask that question?

Does that make any sense at all or are you avoiding the question?

If miners committed suicide how does that make you feel to support her still?

It's obvious from certain comments that they have not lived amongst the communities that Thatcher tried and mostly succeeded in killing off and seeing what her legacy was

As a born and bred brummie I didn't live round t' pit but if you have a slightly more enlightening answer to my question above I'd be interested to hear it.

I'm not crticising anyone (Bicks and Santa) but I find it interesting that you've used the terms scabs to describe people who felt that working to support their families had to be their number one priority. IF god forbid I was in their shoes I think the food in my child's belly would be a higher priority for me than the opinion of my colleagues. Weren't some of these guys murdered by fellow miners*? If so how does that make people feel?

*Serious question because I'm not sure.

pretty much the definition of competence..

As a military man you must have admired her competence in selling all of the UK "summer" uniforms to Saddam then.

Ah yes, I remember those days. When the government realised the military needed kit, proper accomodation, hospitals, gaps between operational tours, ad infinitum. You must be proud of Labour's efforts to starve them of resources whilst commiting them to illegal wars. Anyone would think they didn't give a shit...

Is it the lovely Saudi's who have been sold billions worth of kit under Labour? Oh yes, it is.

They're all equally corrupt, the difference is the Tories are at least competent so it's easier to forgive

Competent at being hypocrites?

Competent at flagrantly getting round Tax laws?

Competent at finding ways around laws on political donations?

Competent at political point scoring?

Competent at hating the working class?

Competent at wanting to remove social safeguards like minimum wage?

Ooh, I bet that felt good!

Probably dependent on whether Jacqui Smith needs to up her housing claim. It's an expensive business you know

Surely you mean Julian Lewis .......ooops sorry we are not allowed to mention THAT party are we ......

Says who? They're all equally corrupt, the difference is the Tories are at least competent so it's easier to forgive.

Maggie Thatcher was an incompetent, arrogant bitch and we are unfortunately even now still paying for many of her failings.

Arrogant yes, a bitch yes, incompetent no. She manged to sort out the cluster **** left by the last labour government, pretty much the definition of competence..

well we know the amount being printed is 75bn

The first step is that amount - the 'maximum' is £150 thousand million.

That 'maximum' though is to always be under review according to Darling's letter, I believe.

Probably dependent on whether Jacqui Smith needs to up her housing claim. It's an expensive business you know.

Awful woman and I know many people who have parties arranged for the day she goes

I take it you wont indulge in such awful behaviour?

so you are all for the repression fo the public then ?

don;t liek free speech and the right to free assembley

guess you had best move to the China there they like authortian types

Barring you picking that Ivan up for his spelling the other day that may be the most ironic comment I have ever read on VT.

Labour's supression of free speech , right to free assembly and protest is good but when the Tories do it it's bad? I agree with what you have written but for Jesus Christ's F'ing sake why have you never pulled up Labour for doing the same and worse recently?

Read it, and weep for our stolen rights

I think one could come up with an equation to look at the average reduction in the price of houses versus the increase in unemployment (and even factor in any reductions in private sector pay and increases in public sector pay) to plot a graph of change in affordability over time but I'm not going to.

LE-VIIIII !!

The riot season is nearly upon us.

Attention overseas VTers. Don't book any trips to London in May

You're kidding right? I wouldn't miss it!

Rope? Check.

V for Vendetta mask? Check.

Whose who of Westminster(in colour)? Check.

Guy Fawkes was a **** amateur.

So , why was Thatcher the destroyer of communities ??

I hereby extend a friendly invite to come and see the old pit villages in the north east

OK , maybe I should have phrased the question better .. why is it ONLY Thatcher appears to be seen as the destroyer of communities when the pit closures in Wales which also decimated communities , happened long before she came to power

don't you understand it is the way that she did it ?

check out the pictures of the time and the massed ranks of the police that were designed to 'shock and awe'

state power at it's worse

Ian I don't agree with you very often mate but ^ is exactly how I see it too. The only flaw in our view is that I don't know how else she could have overcome a militant union. Any ideas?

interesting article from Alistair admitting regulation was too lax, but quite rightly he points out as I have done that there was no real pressure to go for tougher regs, no poltical nor economic pressure

the big test is to see what does come out of all this

Er, there was pressure from the FSA for tougher regs though and as the FSA was created by the Gordon for that purpose I find it strange that he chose to ignore them, don't you?

However as he is in his position to look after shareholders interested which be blantatly failed at then could they sue him for negliegence ?

considiring how much they have lost

That would be brilliant because it would set a precedent for 60 million owners of UK PLC to sue the shit of the government for utter incompetence.

What do Weimar Germany, Zanu PF and Labour have in common?

Crank up the printing presses, it's hyperinflation time!

With the interest rate weapon being seemingly impotent, there is very little alternative and it's an idea that has been floated for nearly a year but has scared off the politicos.

What we don't need is for this to be used to pump money into those banks that so despise labour.

The money needs to be pumped into the economy not used to shore up capitalisation levels.

I'm happy to be corrected mate but isn't buying up bad government debt essentially the same as what I've bolded above?

Further to that will printing money not also mean another fall in the value of Sterling?

What do Weimar Germany, Zanu PF and Labour have in common?

Crank up the printing presses, it's hyperinflation time!

Alistair Darling is this week expected to give the Bank of England formal approval to effectively print more money to kick-start the British economy.

The Bank will be able to spend up to £150 billion in the coming months to buy-up company and Government debts.

The policy, known as quantitative easing, will be used to inject more money into the economy. It is now deemed necessary as interest rates rapidly approach zero.

The Chancellor is expected to sanction the scheme on Thursday in a formal exchange of letters with Mervyn King, the Governor of the Bank of England.

The Bank's Monetary Policy Committee is this week also expected to cut interest rates from one percent to a new record low of 0.5 percent. They may be cut even further to a nominal rate of 0.1 percent.

Many mortgage lenders are unlikely to pass on any reduction to borrowers. Just a third of lenders reduced their standard variable rates in line with last month's cuts. However, fears are growing that savers will again suffer and a further reduction will mean there is virtually no financial incentive to put money aside.

If rates are cut this week, the Bank will have little scope for further reductions prompting the need for quantitative easing to be introduced. However, economists warn that the unprecedented action is risky as inflation could be fuelled in future.

Michael Saunders, chief UK economist at Citigroup said: "If done on a large enough scale, [quantitative easing] is a powerful form of stimulus.

"It is likely to ultimately stabilise the economy and buy time for the financial system to heal - unless the stimulus has to be withdrawn because of signs that inflation expectations are ramping higher - for instance, a collapse in the pound, a surge in survey measures of inflation expectations or sharply higher gilt yields.

"It may be a long and uncertain road back to normal monetary policy."

In an interview yesterday, Sir John Gieve, the outgoing deputy governor of the Bank of England, warned that the decision about when to begin increasing rates to stop inflation rising as recession ends would be "very difficult".

Interest rates impact economic activity several months ahead and therefore the Bank may have to increase rates while recession is still ongoing. Sir John said: "We've got to hold on to the fact that inflation will be kept low.

"That will require some very difficult decisions because it will require the Bank to start raising rates before it is obvious on the street that the economy is getting better."

However, the outgoing deputy governor said he was now optimistic that the worst of the financial crisis was over. "I hope we've reached the bottom," he said. "Confidence in the banking sector should improve. This asset protection scheme they have announced for RBS and will announce for Lloyds in the next few days is a convincing scheme."

Mr Darling is also expected to announce plans this week for a new Government-backed "bank" to fund major infrastructure projects. Finance from banks for the schemes has virtually stopped in the wake of the global credit crisis.

Brown has orchestrated the biggest financial mess that this country has ever seen, and for most of the time Blair was his boss.

and the whole world has carried on with no mess - what a flawed and biased argument - mate you could be Gideon with rhetoric like that :-)

He was happy to take the plaudits for 'no more boom and bust' with his 'prudent' handling of the economy, which was presumably taking advantage of a 'global' economic boom.

But as it all turned out to be built of straw, he doesn't need to take any responsibility for the outcome, which is of course entirely due to the 'global' problems?

I am far too simple to understand

That's about the size of it or so the government would like you to believe.Fortunately all but a few zealots can see it's total bollox.

As for Fred the Shred and his pension he should try the Jacqui Smith defence: "I've broken no rules", it seemed to work for her. The government threatening to change the law to persecute an individual retrospectively having already okayed his pay off is an act of farcical populism, designed as ever to divert attention from themselves.

Who cares. Its still wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right as my old mom used to say. Its never too late to stop a robbery, and this shyster is robbing us all.

He's got a legally binding contract though mate, I don't like it anymore than you but then we didn't sign it off. The Treasury did. You can't start throwing the law aside (apart from the Geneva conventions obviously) because we are pissed off.

Just like I said Awol, this is the spin to hide something else

Sorry mate, somehow missed your post :oops:

The private conversation 'Fred' had with a minister was leaked yesterday by the government and led to this big 'scandal'. Let's not forget ministers okayed his pension not once but twice. So what was to be gained by leaking this, focusing public attention and making it front page news? That's it, another 25 billion of taxpayers money poured into RBS...

Cynical government? Not much..

What's the difference between Jade Goody and Wendy Richards?

I'd still **** Wendy Richards.

----------------------------

Spoke to a mate today, said he had some bad news from the doctor, the big C! "Fcuking hell mate, cancer?" I asked.

"No," he said. "Dyslexia."

Edit: Too much

so say Lord Turner is right, is there any quotes from the FSA over the years stating the approach was wrong or is it all hindsight on his part ?

You could turn that question around and look at Blair's 2005 speech slating the FSA for trying to regulate banks too heavily. The implication of that is clearly that political interference to do less was preventing the FSA carrying out it's job of regulating banks. But of course it all started in 'Amerika' and had nothing to do with anyone in government, ever. Apart from when banks were raking it in and the government were taking all of the credit.