thetrees

It's quite amazing how the good lady is described.

'Incompetent' she certainly wasn't,

her competence could indeed be questioned

If you look at the years between her election and the war, the country wanted her out and her party was planning to topple her, so things obviously weren't going very well.

On that basis Cameron will need a war around 2012/13. History has proven that you cannot undo socialist mismanagement and negligence in two or three years.

There are many people out there who will never give her credit, but were hugely relieved when the constant strikes ceased

No strikes cos everyone was on the dole.

Still plenty of car workers around at the time. The fact remains that the moment the bullying and intimidation of 'show of hands' was outlawed, the honest workers of this country could finally make their own choice.

It's quite amazing how the good lady is described.

'Incompetent' she certainly wasn't, 'arrogant' she certainly was, and she was perhaps 'vindictive' at times. All three of those accusations could be levelled at the present incumbent of the position of PM, quite justifiably.

By implementing secret ballots for strikes and selling of council housing Mrs T empowered an huge amount of ordinary hard working people with greater control of their lives and destiny. There are many people out there who will never give her credit, but were hugely relieved when the constant strikes ceased and they could maintain a steady income flow to support their families.

But when she dies they will dance around the statue of Dennis Skinner in Bolsover, and Arthur Scargill in wherever, because it was she who destroyed them, not Scargill, not in the slightest.

so you are all for the repression fo the public then ?

don;t liek free speech and the right to free assembley

guess you had best move to the China there they like authortian types

'free assembly'?

So large numbers of people assembling to intimidate people who are trying to go to work to feed and clothe their families is okay?

I'll see you on the plane to China. We'll drop you off in North Korea on the way :winkold:

bullying has always been the only way of progressing the socialist cause.

NOT this. :shock:

who were the bullies

number of miners found guilty in court after Orgreave - 0

police compensation for illegal jailing - £500k

What came first?

Policing or flying pickets?

You play with fire, you get burned.

bullying has always been the only way of progressing the socialist cause.

NOT this. :shock:

Sorry, I should have typed 'bullying and intimidation'

maybe if Thatch had been willing to talk and bring in a less 'milliantant' boss then maybe something could have been sorted

You know that nothing like that could ever have happened, even if Thatcher had been 'willing'

The destruction of the miners was as much down to Scargill as it was Thatcher, if not more.

The riot season is nearly upon us.

Attention overseas VTers. Don't book any trips to London in May

In the early 70s the unions, and the NUM in particular, with their bully boy tactics, brought down a democratically elected British government.

Thatcher took the bullies on, dragged them behind the bike sheds and gave them a good kicking to make sure that they could never do it again.

Only socialists would think that flying pickets and 'show of hands' ballots were fair, because bullying has always been the only way of progressing the socialist cause.

Brown has orchestrated the biggest financial mess that this country has ever seen, and for most of the time Blair was his boss.

and the whole world has carried on with no mess - what a flawed and biased argument - mate you could be Gideon with rhetoric like that :-)

He was happy to take the plaudits for 'no more boom and bust' with his 'prudent' handling of the economy, which was presumably taking advantage of a 'global' economic boom.

But as it all turned out to be built of straw, he doesn't need to take any responsibility for the outcome, which is of course entirely due to the 'global' problems?

I am far too simple to understand

I haven't seen anything anywhere, but are they going after Tony Blair to claw back his pension?

I assume that the PM has relinquished his pension rights already?

eh? Sorry TT that makes no sense

So UK plc is doing okay is it?

The whole government spin machine pushing Goodwin out as the only 'baddy' is sickening.

As far as I am concerned he is a 'baddy' , but some of those pointing the finger are at least equally culpable, some far more.

Brown has orchestrated the biggest financial mess that this country has ever seen, and for most of the time Blair was his boss.

I tell you what, Labour will not get my vote again if they make the wrong decision here.

eh? Sorry Trim I don't get you. From the BBC article above it shows that someone in RBS lied. How is that the Gvmts fault again?

The PM has said that now they are going after Goodwin with as much legal force as there is out there. I bet the RBS board room shredder will be busy

I haven't seen anything anywhere, but are they going after Tony Blair to claw back his pension?

I assume that the PM has relinquished his pension rights already?

General,

A little pedantic but the advertisement for 'visit Birmingham' on the electronic pitchside boards is in Royal blue and white colours, the exact colours of our neighbours.

I am sure this is probably a mischievous action by some wag at either the council or the advertising company, but in these days of computerisation I am equally sure that the colours can be changed at the flick of a switch to claret and blue or, if necessary, a neutral colour combination.

A strange thing for a 44 year old bloke to find offensive, but unfortunately I do. If it could be fixed, that would be marvellous.

in the theme of the current UEFA Cup debate I'm not too bothered how we do in next season's CL, if we make it.

Much rather win the league or the FA Cup

Regardless of our league position in relation to their's I hope that all English clubs are knocked out of the Chumps League as early as possible.

The sooner the sycophants of Talkshite and Sky Sports are silenced, the better

Love it but its defo got more expensive and the portions smaller.

Not seen their spec lately, but I doubt that the chicken is smaller.

growing smaller chicken ain't efficient the way things are set up now

Most improved: Petrov

Consistently awesome: Laursen

Awesomely consistent: Barry

Maligned hero: Knight

Player of the season for playing out of position at a high level of excellence: Luke Young

would this be the minimum wage that many experts are now saying was good intentions , bad results ?

So you would be happy for the minimum wage to be scrapped (along with most of the Tory party it would seem). The "true" Tory party is starting to emerge from under the glossy marketing.

How did it go again ........"There is no such thing as society"

I try to keep out of this thread, but i did make the observation that the minimum wage, as well intentioned that it was, has become *the* wage in this country.

We are now a consumer led, service orientated economy. Since the introduction of the minimum wage all unskilled jobs have become 'minimum wage' positions. If perhaps 5% of the work force were being exploited prior to its introduction, anything up to 40% of the workforce may now be paid the 'minimum' (personal guesstimates, I have no source)

The minimum wage is probably enough for people to survive on, pay rent, eat, heat, put shoes on their kids' feet etc., but it doesn't leave any extra to spend, and if the 'extra' isn't being spent then the economy cannot recover.

The idea of a minimum wage is fantastic but in practise, given the economic woe that we are now under, it could just become a millstone around the neck of economic recovery.

A big room with a smaller room and kitchenette just off. I reside behind a large desk with two phones and a PC and an expansive outlook over to the east from Birmingham.

Quite a bijou residence, the downside being shared bathroom facilities, but it does have the benefit of its own runway.

Times is hard

I am naming over 2 million people in the UK

who do think does the jobs like cleaning hospitial for a pittance and other stuff

Come on Ian, now you are having us on.

It's a long time since hospitals were properly cleaned.

Now if there was any job that would benefit from bonus initiatives.........

OK - the point I was making was that the job's you showed had low base salary compared to say the banking sector

gotcha .. but that wasn't why i postd them so not really relevent

the jobs I showed were at the company where ian worked as he said there was no justification for any job having them ..just thought he might want to take that up with his boss's :-)

My understanding is that everyone at depot level with the company concerned has the opportunity to receive some kind of bonus, so Ian may have a case for discrimination.

But then a number of their management were run through the mill of reapplying for their jobs before Christmas, and only the chosen few were retained, so at least the axe falls on the semi-fat cats, which probably suits some.

CV, my Mrs would get 20% working for a private housing association rather than the council, the pension makes up that defecit

I think that you have inadvertently found a solution to the problem of our bloated public sector.

Tell all of the workers that there will be a sensible pension review, in line with the problems faced by workers in the private sector. Then many of them will leave to earn 20% more, thus trimming down the public sector to more manageable proportions.

Bingo

but without teachers, the future is bleak

well I'd argue I have learnt more since i left school than i did whilst there , but in principal we need them .....

Yep, let's hope global cooling doesn't set in and bring regular snow, 'cos we'll be screwed without teachers

You have it easy across the water. Try living in this black hole called Ireland. Country is going down the toilet, we've bred a country of greedy selfish stubborn fools, we're finished if you ask me. We have no leadership in either Government or opposition and we're doomed. The End.

So you English quit moaning.

Yes, but at least all your crooked politicians have a nice smile and line of banter.

Our crooks are just crooks, and not very nice ones at that.

Finishing off a nice bottle of Malbec given to me in Argentina.

On a beer front I notice that Wetherspoons are presently selling pints of Greene King IPA for 99p each.

Now that is a bargain!

or peopel just move their savings from say NR to a safe bank and BR dies slowly ..

a peopel's bank concept is interesting but would it not really be a building soceity ?

in retorspect the worse thing that happeed was the move of the ex building socieites to bans so they could access' market funds' this meant their business models were too agressive

if the 'peoples' bank strengthens BS's then it can only be good

the 'peoples' bank can be anyone rich or poor

Thinking about it a 'people's bank' would be entrusting my money to this government, who have proved themselves to be anything but clever with money, so no.