macandally

When you realise we are a selling club these days and have not got the cash of the big boys, Mcleish is doing OK with an average prem squad and wea are still unbeaten, look at wolves today, that's a team that the supporters should worry about, no manager could make a top 8 side out of this squad, someone of you need a good word with yourselfe...jeeesus

I was going to take the time to construct a response, but realistically you are in denial. Look at who we played, lower mid table teams at best. If you remember, that wolves team got a 0-0 at our place.

Get your head out your arse FFS. Unbeaten crap!

Having watched another 90 minutes of dross I am confused and therefore have to ask:

Do our players actually know each other?

Do we have a game plan?

Do the players actually want to play for McLeish because it doesnt appear so?

Do the players know what McLeish wants them to do as it doesnt appear so?

I have never liked McLeish, which I will not hide, but he needs to go and soon. Ridiculous appointment, dire football and all credit to Pardew as he had a weaker team playing better football. Newcastle moved the ball well, were fluid with their movement and made us look like we are, ordinary.

Played off the park on our own patch.

Rubbish

I was scathing at half time and in fairness, we were lucky to even be in the game after 45 minutes.

Half time team talk worked, but we need to compete for 90, not just 20 minutes per game.

Very lucky and still cannot see what McLeish brings with respect to offensive play. We lucked clueless for most of the game. Screamer again from Petrov (about all he did) and one quality delivery for the goal, all game.

Sorry, Petrov's been alright for me but Delph is having a nightmare. We need to hang onto the ball and stop playing long balls as soon as we get it. We are giving them way too much space.

I'm usually one to find positives but apart from Bannan who has been tidy, they have all been terrible, including Bent who's first touch goes further than a Jean Makoun pass!

Yeah, much prefer to watch Petrov sat in his comfort zone of a 10 yard circle whilst the rest of the midfield have to work around him.

Petrov is awful, the midfield as a unit, awful. One pass, two pass, lump it forward. Every time. Not interplay as there is no movement, no idea how to progress the play forward apart from lumping it.

I think McLeish just buys attackers and expects them to turn up and do their stuff. Is there actually any coaching going on at the club?

I hope McLeish introduces his forward line to the rest of the team, that would be a start.

Dire, just what I expected from this dick. Keep your defense, whats the point if the rest of the team dont appear to know each other.

Threaders, what are we, four games in. If this guy is in this job at Christmas it will be a joke.

I cant think of one strength Houllier had

I cant think of one valid point you have made against Houllier to support your case?

It is obvious you dont like him, fair enough. There are those that bother to try to put across reasoning for their stance, other than, "I dont like him". I am wondering though, why bother.

GG didn't need to be registered as such as he's U21.

Ah that will be why then, thanks!

Houllier came into a club in limbo, with a shite training regime............in fact why bother. You have your views, I have mine and it appears never the twain shall meet.

Yeah that is why we had so few injuries and we came 6th 3 years on the trot. Our training was terrible thank god we had Houllier come in with his 'new' methods which led to mass injuries and had us in a relegation scrap.

Do you do any fitness Diego??

You are more susceptible to injuries during undertaking a new training regime. Its why your doctors recommend you speak to them before taking up new training programmes.

I could also use Jon Terrys ""We knew Villa would tire after 55-60 minutes and that if we kept passing the ball, spaces would appear and chances would come," the Chelsea captain said." Quote. Our fitness under ONeill was poor as there was no fitness training per sae, a lot of his training was 5 a sides.

The facts are there, you just choose not to see them for the sake of argument, or you have a short memory.

Scholari had everything, and won everything uder the sun, where did it get him at Chelsea. McLaren is one of the most decorated coaches in Europe, where did it get him with England ? , Fergusun had bugger all coaches badges - has it stopped him becoming a good manager ?.

I am struggling to find any truth in any of those statements.

Scholari - World Cup and a few South American trophies, not sure he had coached in Europe?

McClaren - One of the most decorated coaches in Europe........really?

Ferguson - Sure you have to have your UEFA A license (or be working toward it) to coach in the premier league

Houllier, a man who through coaching and dealing with young players can turn an average team into a top 4 team.

It's like reading the ramblings of a mad man.

Arsene wenger is twice the coach houllier will ever be, he's been able to attract top class young players into his team and he's failed to seriously challenge the big clubs with this approach. Most people in the game acknowledge he needs to spend money in order to do this.

The notion that someone as shit as houllier could turn us into a top 4 team simply from his coaching and working with young players is ridiculous and completely ignores everything that happened at the club last year.

How has Wenger not challenged the big clubs. Are you for real??

Wenger took over a club that was defensively sound due to the work of George Graham. He then added attacking flair that was enough to make you drool and they played the type of football i wish every club could play.

The one thing Wenger hasnt done is shored up his back four, if he had earlier, he would have won much more.

Houllier came into a club in limbo, with a shite training regime............in fact why bother. You have your views, I have mine and it appears never the twain shall meet.

Am I right in thinking he didnt make our 23 man first team squad??

Our defence isnt as good as some are shouting about. 1st off we aint played anybody decent as of yet..Given was MOTM v Fulham, making at least 3 very good saves, so thankyou Shay for the clean sheet there..

Blackburn we allowed Pedersen to run from the midfield to head in from a cross and nobody picked him up.

Wolves, we had Herd as MOTM playing RB because he kept Jarvis out the game(one of Wolves main supply lines for goals)..

Its far too early to be shouting from the rooftops that we have a great defence..I do think Given is a huge improvement on an aging Friedel..But lets wait until we start playing the big boys, lets wait and see if the defence can handle when negativity creeps in, when we a lose a game or 2..Lets wait until injuries and suspensions kick in..

And I do agree with all those saying that they have a defensive set up just infront of them which also makes them look good...And at the same time its making our front line look average.

I will interested to see what the team do when we go a goal down..Because we will have to come out and play then, this will leave gaps...ATM McLeish has played a very careful game where he hasnt had to commit players going forward...

I tend to agree with you.

when we play a simple game of stopper we look ok, thats alright against the lesser teams.

When we play teams who have players who will move us around, thats when you will see the difference.

..not convinced we have anything other than a very average defence.

+ 1 to both of those posts.

I hope Eck has taken his factor 50 to Marbella

I hope he hasnt.

Do you know what, you might be right, its all conjecture now isnt it?

I can honestly say I would rather have seen what Houllier could have done with a full transfer window than know what McLeish will do and bring to the club.

Except you dont know what McLeish will do.

No your right of course, but I dont think he has surprised anyone with the fact he has focused on the defence, plays two deeplying midfielders to supplement them and is not too bothered about Bent being a spectator.

I think he has done pretty much what I expected so far!

As painful as it may be lets just imagine for a minute that Houllier would have stayed beyond last season. Nothing about his career, especially in England, suggests he would have been able to cope with little money to spend. Quite the opposite. In fact having to spend less than half what we have brought in. He simply wouldn't have coped. We struggled for the vast majority of last season and that was with Downing and Young our two best players.

Houllier and no money would have been painful viewing. We were very fortunate last season that he was given the best part of 30 mill to spend in January. Without it there is a very real possibility we would have been relegated. In fact even having spent that amount, and having spent far more on one player, potentially twice as much,as any other manager, we were still in the mix for the drop with a couple of games to go. Given the fact he failed to take any responsibility for our woes last season prefering to blame any Tom, Dick, Warnock, Dunne,Ireland, O'Neill...... for the shit we were in you can just imagine he'd have been armed and ready with the excuse of having little money to spend.

Given the players we have and our finances McLeish ,whilst in no way my first or my ideal choice, is a much better fit than Houllier. He'll take responsbility, accept that having taken the job it is down to him to get the best out of the players he has inherited and won't make excuses or pass the buck if things don't go well. In fact taking responsibility and showing leadership is the least you'd expect a manager to do. Sadly Houllier failed to do that and we almost paid the ultimate price.

Do you know what, you might be right, its all conjecture now isnt it?

I can honestly say I would rather have seen what Houllier could have done with a full transfer window than know what McLeish will do and bring to the club.

The only pity with Houllier is that he didn't have the decency to walk away and thus accept what was plain to everyone else - that he was incapable of managing at any level never mind the Premier League. Instead he walked off with a 5 mill pay off for doing sweet FA. Says it all about the man.

So basically, you're accusing him of not being decent based on the fact that he didn't resign just because you didn't want him there?

So if me and a few other people on here grow unhappy with McLeish as manager, it would be indecent of him to not resign just because I wasn't happy with him as manager?

Ridiculous. You're entitled to your opinion on him as we all are but I don't think it's fair at all to label somebody as indecent just because you weren't happy with them and they didn't resign.

This, when did you become the voice of the masses??

Huh? I was speaking for myself, hence the "I think".

Not directed at you, I was agreeing with your post!

The only pity with Houllier is that he didn't have the decency to walk away and thus accept what was plain to everyone else - that he was incapable of managing at any level never mind the Premier League. Instead he walked off with a 5 mill pay off for doing sweet FA. Says it all about the man.

So basically, you're accusing him of not being decent based on the fact that he didn't resign just because you didn't want him there?

So if me and a few other people on here grow unhappy with McLeish as manager, it would be indecent of him to not resign just because I wasn't happy with him as manager?

Ridiculous. You're entitled to your opinion on him as we all are but I don't think it's fair at all to label somebody as indecent just because you weren't happy with them and they didn't resign.

This, when did you become the voice of the masses??

Nothing to suggest long term, apart from his previous record of course which eclipses McGish and his two team league success. But yep, it didnt work, your right and we are going round in circles because your blinkered.

That's the thing. You ignore the facts infront of you, ignore last season and base it all on the past. That doesn't mean it's guaranteed to work. There are managers who have done well years ago that wouldn't produce the same results now. It's ridiculous to keep claiming that because he did it in the past he'd be great for us.

Ergo, trying to explain something to someone who refuses to listen is pointless, and for that reason, I am out.

As is trying to point out facts and evidence to someone who ignore it all.

Enjoy McLeish and his tactical nous whilst us delusional people think of what might have been.

Will do, enjoy the daydreaming while playing football manager.

Jon, I am 40 years old. The only reason I even know about football manager is because people with little imagination throw it around on here.

Last season began what was needed, an overhaul of overpaid, underworked players. Unfortunately, the job didnt get finished and we get to spend this season complaining about Warnock, Dunne, Collins, Petrov...............

A manager get selected on previous experience and successes, how would you propose we pick them in the future. Lucky Dip???

Unfortunately, you are symptomatic of modern culture where everything has to NOW, NOW, NOW. The fact you cannot see where Houlliers approach could have taken us does not surprise me.

Actually I've got no problems with allowing a manager time to build something. The thing is just giving a manager time doesn't guarantee success. Giving the wrong manager time will lead to nothing but trouble and there is no doubt in my mind that houllier was the wrong manager.

His style of football was not effective, it didn't work. You can bang on all you want that it would have in the long term but there's nothing to prove that. Just you and the football manager crew repeating your delusional ideas.

As I say he showed a complete lack of tactical skill, complete lack of man management skills, terrible pr skills and through his own arrogance and incompetence lost the fans early on.

Still excuses get made for what was an awlful performance from an awlful manager.

Nothing to suggest long term, apart from his previous record of course which eclipses McGish and his two team league success. But yep, it didnt work, your right and we are going round in circles because your blinkered.

Ergo, trying to explain something to someone who refuses to listen is pointless, and for that reason, I am out.

Enjoy McLeish and his tactical nous whilst us delusional people think of what might have been.

Good post above..

Houllier is like a 5 star hotelier going to run a 2 star hotel..He has the 5 star standards and can deliver the 5 star service...But unfortunately the old existing staff were too set in their ways of not cleaning the toilets properly or changing sheets properly...Yet Houllier could train the new recruits and young college staff how to change the sheets and clean the toilets but the old timers could never grasp it.. And unfortunately the 5 star Hotelier was never going to drop his standards and say its ok to not clean toilets or change sheets properly..He would continue with his standards and drill it into the old staff that he wants a 5 star service..

If you replace '5' with '1' it'd make perfect sense, judging on the actual facts of his reign, rather than on utopic fan visions of grandeur.

The club saw that and kicked him out even though the doctors gave him a pass for his medical condition. He must thank GMac for steering the ship well in the end of the season.

Yep, because he didnt deliver results in 10 minutes, he must be shit. I give up, its like trying to plait fog.

Everybody wants everything immediately. It took Barcelona 20 years to build what they now have. We dont have the money like City to expedite that process, so we have to build slowly but with a clear vision of how we want to be.

You mate have now got what you and people who cannot be bothered to wait deserve. Football dross from a second rate manager, enjoy it.

Setting your team up the same for over 20 games regardless of results is not the sign of a tactical genius. Switching back when the threat of relegation was becoming too real shows what a shit job he was doing.

Refusing to work on the teams biggest weakness is not the sign of a man who has a great master plan.

Destroying any fighting spirit the team had is not the sign of a great man manager.

The whole argument for houllier is based around a few peoples delusional belief that they understand football better than those who weren't happy losing and being in a relegation battle.

It's ridiculous and I'm just so happy that I can read these delusional posts with a smile on my face because that stupid word removed isn't in charge anymore.

ONeill had the players working pretty much a three day week, where the reward for results was extra days off. Houllier introduced a revised training program which was focused on fitness and technical development. Due to the state of the squad he introduced morning and afternoon training in order to build up fitness (remember how we conceded late goals under ONeill??)

Houllier took what equated to a Sunday League training regime and tried to introduce modern practices to improve both the technical ability and performance levels of the team.

The squad obviously didnt like that, peferring the stupidly large wages and part time existance to working hard to become a team capable of challenging the top four. That is player power and that is ONeills legacy. He brought us top 6, but at what price?

The delusions are yours John, as per usual, you see what suits you and there is no doubt to your feelings towards Houllier. Unfortunately, you are symptomatic of modern culture where everything has to NOW, NOW, NOW. The fact you cannot see where Houlliers approach could have taken us does not surprise me.

Can someone tell me what it was that houllier was trying to do and why it was such a great thing? And is there actually any evidence to prove this great thing houllier was building or is it all based on steak and chips love for him and interviews he did years ago?

Was he implementing new tactics? Well no he wasn't, MON in Pre season changed the formation and tried young in the hole, k mac continued with that and so did houllier. He stuck with it for over 20 games until we were in real trouble and then woke up.

Also he refused to do anything about the defence. Now I'm now footballing genius like mr houllier but I would have thought building a new great style of football would require a certain amount of time solving obvious weaknesses which the great houllier failed to do.

Was he trying to implement this new great style using youth? Well he played young players because he had to and dropped them pretty much as soon as the senior players returned.

His style of football was pathetic, it was possession football in areas that weren't a danger to the opposition. His defence was set up in a shambolic way. He destroyed team spirit, any fight the team had to get back into games and was an embarrassment in the press and towards the fans.

Now there are stats, facts, games and results to show all that so I frankly couldn't give a shit that houllier fan number 1 posts interviews from years ago or makes up his own bullshit.

Houllier was one of the worst appointments this club ever made.

I think you are looking at this through blinkers. We did try to keep the ball, it was so obviously different to what ONeill was doing that you couldnt possibly not notice it, unless you just didnt want to.

The problem we had was the lack of technical ability in the squad, we couldnt play the passing game at a tempo that regularly opened up the opposition, which often meant we kept the ball but possession floundered.

Now that we have returned to a UK thump it and chase philosophy, the players look happier and you no doubt will be much more pleased.

surely the flip side to that is that if you have players that are adapted to playing a certain style, you use tactics that play to their strengths rather than deciding on tactics and then trying to force your players to fit your ideas?

i cant see how the old wimbledon team would have marched through the divisions if they had tried to get a team of brickies and part timers to play like barcelona!

MAYBE over the course of a few years houllier MAY have been able to change the squad and its style of play enough for his philosphy to acheive results, but he would never have had chance to prove it if he had got us relegated in the mean time.

You are right, maybe trying to conduct a revolution not an evolution is what caused so much angst.

That said, I have absoutely no doubt whatsoever that the club would have been much more competitive with a better style of football in 5 years time than it will now.

Can someone tell me what it was that houllier was trying to do and why it was such a great thing? And is there actually any evidence to prove this great thing houllier was building or is it all based on steak and chips love for him and interviews he did years ago?

Was he implementing new tactics? Well no he wasn't, MON in Pre season changed the formation and tried young in the hole, k mac continued with that and so did houllier. He stuck with it for over 20 games until we were in real trouble and then woke up.

Also he refused to do anything about the defence. Now I'm now footballing genius like mr houllier but I would have thought building a new great style of football would require a certain amount of time solving obvious weaknesses which the great houllier failed to do.

Was he trying to implement this new great style using youth? Well he played young players because he had to and dropped them pretty much as soon as the senior players returned.

His style of football was pathetic, it was possession football in areas that weren't a danger to the opposition. His defence was set up in a shambolic way. He destroyed team spirit, any fight the team had to get back into games and was an embarrassment in the press and towards the fans.

Now there are stats, facts, games and results to show all that so I frankly couldn't give a shit that houllier fan number 1 posts interviews from years ago or makes up his own bullshit.

Houllier was one of the worst appointments this club ever made.

I think you are looking at this through blinkers. We did try to keep the ball, it was so obviously different to what ONeill was doing that you couldnt possibly not notice it, unless you just didnt want to.

The problem we had was the lack of technical ability in the squad, we couldnt play the passing game at a tempo that regularly opened up the opposition, which often meant we kept the ball but possession floundered.

Now that we have returned to a UK thump it and chase philosophy, the players look happier and you no doubt will be much more pleased.

Look last season wasnt pretty, it was a team totally in transistion and that transistion was painful. Some of the senior pros were upset and got abusive which then has an impact on the camp. Two things can happen, either the manager rebuilds the squad with his people which I think Houllier would have done, or player power wins and the manager leaves. To some extent, the latter happened and we, as Aston Villa fans will suffer due to that for the next decade or so.

It takes time to implement change, to build a foundation. It took Barcelona 20 years of tooing and froing before Cryuffs "total football" actually manifested itself in the current team. You have to have faith, believe in what you are doing and stick to it, through bad and good times.

To sum up England and the way our fans think, I heard Gareth Southgate say something like this about kids football:

Jonny, gets the ball in defence and under pressure lumps it out for a throw in. All the parents clap and say "Well done Jonny, great clearance". The next time he gets the ball, in this case with time on the ball, what do you think he does? Bring it down and play it, or lump it out?"

Of course he lumps it out again.

That is the fundamental problem with kids football and it permeates through our game. Overseas they are taught to bring the ball down under pressure and play it. They will concede goals and make mistakes, but that is the learning process. You learn nothing by lumping it 60 yards or over the stand.

We are a no nonesense country playing no nonesense football which is what we will get from McLeish. Houllier offered us a chance of a footballing philosophy, particular with our kids coming through. Opportunity of a generation wasted.